Taking Sagat to the next level

sagat

#1

So I thought it would be good to have a single thread where advanced Sagat strats could be discusses.

Sagat has ALOT of depth to his game and I thought it would be good for the Sagat community to really delve into his character.

Sagat wins tournies with really super solid basic play. I think that the true beast that lies within Sagat has yet to be unleashed.

The Emperor of Muay Thai has many tricks up his sleeve just waiting for someone to uncover them.

Talk about high level stuff here. Frame traps, mix-ups, Tiger shot lockdown patterns in various match-ups, baiting strategies, what normals of Sagat’s stuff the most used normals of other characters, his kara cancels, etc.

To start us off I have something I have been messing with as well as a question.

I have been fooling around with frame traps. Sagat’s low short leaves him at plus 3 on block. So of course that’s an easy set-up for a grab since a grab takes 2 frames to come out. You have to wait a split second though because you can’t grab during block stun so i you try to grab immediately the grab will whiff.

What other mix-ups do you think might be applicable after a blocked low short?

And my question was about a possible kara throw. Since Sagat can kara his step kicks does he have a kara throw off of them or a kara throw at all? I was just curious about this.

Ok, guys let’s get some good discussion going.


#2

a kara throw off of his low step kick would be a ridiculous mixup, and would make sagat really overpowered, being that he would be the only character that could basically dash into a throw. If he does have a kara throw, nobody has discovered it yet.

Good thread idea. Hopefully we can keep it going with some thoughtful and in depth posts.


#3

this isn’t really advanced but his standing jab stuffs a ton of stuff and its easy to link to a crouching jab–>TU or TS

i rarely see xbl sagats use this…they should


#4

Basics you should know - just go through trials.

f.LK chains quite nicely into c.LP > Tiger Shot
f.LK > f.HK, a great mixup but if you whiff you’ll eat a counter.
f.LK > c.MK mixup options,
c.HK to sweep or go for Tiger Shot
if you get hit confirm on c.MK you can also go straight into Super.
if you really want to add that extra 20~30 dmg add in a Tifer Knee before cancelling into super.

j.MP chains into Tiger Knee on hit confirm, which potentially chains into Super.

s.MK is a fast poke, akin to kens f.MK, which btw will trade if exact input, nearly the same range. also hits twice if close, fast enough to break FA depending on twitch release timing.

If you are good with fake kick 1frames, get used to baiting distance on matchups and buffer either super or ultra during fake kick animation.

Example, rather then whiffing s.HK and having ryu LP SRK your foots hit box and FADC into ultra, Your Fake Kick will bait him into LP SRK, which he is now unable to FADC, and drop him with a ultra as he comes down. Most Ryu players will have theis combo on muscle memory, and you take advantage of that lapse in time while they slam in all the links on command, with no return. Good luck finding a mind reader who doesnt follow through with the twitch combo and blocks after the light SRK. Theres just enough frames for him to block after the LP SRK if oyur timing is off.


#5

Can you Kara EX Tiger knee? Maybe I’m not using the right word. I mean the same thing that Ken does with his ex air tatsumaki, u can give it the same distance as a heavy air tatsumaki.


#6

Not to sure, Sagats not my main but i do have better execution with him then guile… try searching the other threads


#7

for c.LK I like cross up lk and then c.lk c.lk tick throw a whole lot. pretty basic i guess, but I really like it.

you can kara throw off f.lk and f.hk, but not at the same timing as those specials. it’s the timing as f.mk kara with ken, so you dont even see the startup AT ALL. it does not add a very large distance to his throw range but it still extends it slightly. I dont see it being useful for throwing out but it may be useful in certain setups.

I’ve done it, I didn’t own the game until yesterday so I was only messing with it on my friend’s training mode but it’s easy to do if you can already do ken’s kara throw. It’s nowhere near as significant like I said but you can see a move forward still (f.hk is better for it).

any particularly good setups for landing f.hk any of you like to share?

edit:
update from my friend SSJ George Bush (zangief player who discovered gief’s short hop):
Normally you cannot uppercut crossups (especially zangief but every other character as well). to be able to do it is you put in the shoryu late and such that it’s just barely before you block it and also the way you input it you’re crouching for most of the relevant time so you don’t get hit as deep (and normally you’re getting hit because you’re standing). The auto turnaround should still turn you around.

the only thing that still loses with sagat is vs. Zangief’s knees crossup because the knees hit so deep/low in sagat’s hitbox

quote “It can be made to be harder to counter depending on how well timed the splash is, but i haven’t been able to make a splash be 100% safe.”
“Basically you buffer the forward motion right before your wakeup invincibility ends, then put in the rest of it anytime after that and since the other motions are crouch you will have alot more time before you get hit, then when zangief is crossed over, hit the button”
“the crouch gives you more time to wait while zangief crosses over, and at the same time you have a dragonpunch buffered in waiting to happen”


#8

Not really top tier info, but if you do a high step kick in front of your opponent it can easily bait them into making a mistake, since f+HK recovers real quick. While the try to counter during your recovery you can easily TU them to set up ultra.


#9

I DEFINITELY wanna master Sagat’s kara throw. The man has the WORST grab range in the game. Anything that can give it a buff however slight is useful IMO.

As for hitting cross-ups with TU, I usually just do the old school method of hitting down/forward then doing the rest of the motion in the other direction.

Also I have been really loving Sagat’s f+lk. It leaves him at -1 which is really good. When it’s well spaced it’s very easy to bait your opponent into doing something.

If you have half a bar and Ultra you can fish for a TU if your close. Even if it’s blocked you can just dash back and be safe from most character’s options. Or you can get risky and dash forward and attempt a grab, c.jab, block if you expect retaliation or TU again if you are feeling lucky.

Of course the f+lk leads to kara specials as well which opens up Sagat’s options for zoning and space control even more.

I have been using it alot like Ken uses his step kick. Ken’s activates faster, but leaves him at -2. Sagat’s hits low and lead to c.lp to Tiger uppercut > FADC > High Step Kick > Ultra. This is a one frame link though so it will take ALOT of practice.

After someone blocks a step kick and it’s well spaced I usually do a s. MK. This move has alot of priority and stuffs alot of stuff for free when well spaced. Maybe because the hitbox thrusts forwards while Sagat sort of leans back which sort of places his character hitbox behind the hitbox of the attack.


#10

If a gief does a cross up wake up splash, input SLOWLY, 2 half circles in the direction that gief is jumping into and hit Hard Punch. You get a free auto-corrected uppercut.

So much for “taking sagat to the next level” I’m far from pro, but stuff like being able to mash a tiger knee into super for an extra hit doesn’t seem like something that belongs in this thread… and neither does my post, but someone asked.


#11

Yes

You can kara any knee.:zzz:

Taking sagat to the next level for sure… OP can we redo this thread. I liked your idea, but seriously? kara an ex knee? that’s “next level” shit? We’re all doomed.


#12

To TU cross-ups I just do hcb+P. It doesn’t work every time, but I get results when it matters.


#13

Huh?

I don’t believe I mentioned anything about Kara ex knees. Unless you are saying I should change the title due to what that one poster said.

If so please kindly chillax.

And yes Kara cancels are higher level strats. It most certainly isn’t low level. It takes an intimate knowledge of spacing to get the full benefits of kara cancels.

And it’s not like a Kara ex knee is completely out there as something that you could do in a match.


#14

emblem

Yeah, I haven’t slept all night, perhaps I do need to take a chill pill. But this is the quote I was referring to. I happen to use ex kara knee a lot though, maybe that’s just me.


#15

Well then there you go.

Get some rest dude.

You make good posts in the Sagat forums. You’re no good to us when your head isn’t on straight. lolol.

I think need to also talk about solid block strings. In tourney while facing very high level players stuff like fully spaced short to TS well just get your shot focused, jumped over or even reversaled. Doing a TK is also not risk free. Some characters can slide under it or do a low forward to avoid it an punish.

So what are some tighter block strings that Sagat can rely on so he doesn’t lave himself open to retaliation.


#16

This is more common amonst Sagat players than not. I’m always seeing this and expecting it. As soon as I see that second c.lk, I’m expecting the tick throw.

General things I noticed about some Sagats on PSN. When they’re in a certain range…

close range: Expect a tick throw. It’s coming.
Mid range: Expect a TK or that lunging :hp: (destroyer of all creations move)
Long range: I’m not even going to say anything here.


#17

I agree

Most ryu’s like to stay within jump in distance of a, I’ll call it whiffed tiger shot. That’s also the same distance as a quick dash in, crouching forward, fireball combo. Ryu’s crouching forward avoids tiger knee, as does dhalsims slide and I think rose’s as well.


#18

I’m pretty sure everyone has the same throw range, to whoever said Sagat has the worst in the game


#19

Use his fake kick! For some reason a lot of people feel inclined to jump in when they see it, and it’s a free ultra in many matchups. Just do the fake kick and in the recover of it you can double quarter circle really quick. If they jump or do anything else unsafe (most specials too :devil:) then you hit 3xK. If not you just block anything else.

Do the fake kick over a body on wake up such that you’re blocking when they wake up and try to DP you. Damn do they feel stupid when you mp xx TU f+hk Ultra them after :rofl:

His c.hp fucks up A LOT of people’s normals. Get on xbox live and spam the shit out of it at first so you get a feel for when you can and can’t use it. Punish a lot of baits with it, it has so much range. standing HP too.

Don’t forget, Sagat can link c.lp off of c.hp in some matchups and can TU on counterhit against most of the cast as far as I know.

And learn how to capitalize on damage. Tigershot FADC combos are really safe, allow for great mixup, and do great damage that can end matches before your opponent can even go into clutch mode, haha.

And if they think they are far enough to jump towards you without being punished, f+hk kara EX TU and prove them wrong.

:blah: :blah:

(On a side note, Sagat’s tick throw game is pretty bad due to how slow he walks. A huge handicap that people who don’t play Sagat never notice :razz:)


#20

>_>

Moving on.