Tanden Renki...care to learn?

makoto

#1

Alrighty then, the response was positive enough so here goes. This is going to take awhile so I’ll update in Sections and list the updates in this post. The actual strategies will be going into the one right below. Enjoy!!!

July 10, 2007 - Sec. 11 n - s posted (c updated) (finally done)
Jun. 25, 2007 - Sec. 11 d - m posted
Jun. 24, 2007 - Sec. 11 a - c posted
Jan. 24, 2006 - Sec. 1 - 10 posted


You know that cheezy-@ss sequence in DBZ where Goku will spend about 2-3 episodes to charge up so he can unleash the ultimate offensive barrage against his opponent? And during the charge-up, Goku acknowledges that if the upcoming offense fails, he’s f*cked. Compress all that into about 1.6 seconds and that’s just about what Tanden Renki is.

I’ve been using Tanden for almost as long as I’ve been playing this game seriously so I’ve had a lot of time to fill my bag of tricks. During that time, I’ve also always wanted to play against more Tanden players but they seem to be a rare breed. I’ve honestly never enjoyed the game more than when I played a few casual matches against Mike Z.

So here’s the deal:
If there are enough people interested in learning all the Tanden tricks I have to offer in an attempt to pick up a new (and in my humble opinion, a better) super art, I’ll spill my beans. If not, well all my old tricks will still seem funky fresh.


#2
  1. Enter the arena prepared. (Jan. 24, 2007)

There are two words you should keep in your head as you’re entering a match with SA3 Makoto: NO FEAR!!! If you enter a match thinking, “Oh no, I’m up against Daigo,” then you’ve already lost. When Makoto begins a fight yelling “Shobu ja!” she’s ready to kick ass, but above all else, she’s ready for a good fight. As soppy as this is going to sound, you have to play with the same mentality if you’re going to get anywhere with this SA.

Keep in mind, stupidity and fearlessness are two different things. Don’t get greedy. When you can’t block, a whiffed Hayate or Karakusa equates to painful punishment. It’s especially painful because once you’re knocked down while Renki’d, you’re only defense is lucky parrying.

Get into your opponent’s head. Once you get him (or her) to start playing at your pace, you’ll be able to read him like Mother Goose. If you can’t get into his head, figure him out. Every move you use should be a test to see how he reacts to lock onto his pattern.

Finally, remember when you first learned to parry? And how you’d have your friend throw Hadoukens at you so you could practice? And how proud you were when you could parry a Shinkuu Hadouken consistently? Well, take all that and forget it. Despite popular belief, you don’t have to be a parry god in order to play Tanden well. Makoto’s got a huge amount of invincibility after she Renkis…use it. Not only is it easier to let your opponent completely whiff after you Renki and before you punish his ass, it’s safer. If you Renki as Ken’s tossing out a d.forward, and parry it, you’re just asking to eat a Shoryu…quite possibly cancelled into Shippu Jinrai. So now that you’ve got a handle on parrying, the real trick is learning when to use it or not.


  1. Why Tanden?

Now, why the hell should you use Tanden when the other SAs are so much safer? Well…they aren’t. How many times have you thrown out a desparate Seichuusen only to have it blocked and punished? How about a blocked Abare? It particularly stings when you’re up against a Dudley who decides to embarrass you with an EX Cross Counter on the last hit. Tanden is safe because you don’t “whiff.”

Even if you don’t consider that to be an actual advantage, SA3 is at the very least equal to the rest in that it accomplishes the same purpose as the others. All of Makoto’s supers are designed to be finishers. A connected Seichuusen does the same damage as a Shinshoryuken. Abare does the same if you follow up with:
j.c xx Tsurugi xx Hayate xx Hayate
Depending on the situation, a Tanden combo can easily do as much as a Shippuu Jinrai, a Shin Shoryu, or a Kongou Kokuretsuzan (Gouki’s"pound-da-ground").


  1. Use Tanden against who?! (character specific strategy will come later)

EVERYONE! Even against Gouki, Chun, Remy, and Yun? Even against them (actually, Remy’s more dependant on your personal style).

But you can easily stun Gouki w/o kara-fukis using Abare. Alright, then go ahead. I personally use Tanden because I hate not having a wakeup attack and getting my life chipped away with c.forward - Tatsumaki when I’m on the ground and in the corner (remember, I’m not a parry god). W/ Tanden, I just activate on wake-up. If it’s a c.forward, let him whiff before punishment. If it’s a Tatsu, get that Fuki ready. You get the idea.

But isn’t Seichuusen safer because Chun’s so fast? Alright, miss and eat a Houyokusen while you’re at it. Seichuusen is a one-hit-wonder…it’s an even bigger gamble than Tanden when used while you’re on the defensive. Tanden’s freeze frame gives you a chance to refocus so you can rethink your strategy if you really need it.

But isn’t Tanden a really bad match against Genei Jin? Sure, if you activate before he does. Apart from standard strategies, there’s few things more satisfying than letting a Yun rush in with Genei Jin, activating Tanden as he tries to find an opening, letting him whiff (or parrying if it’s safe), punish his ass, and watching his meter drop all the while. Oh, no more Genei Jin for you.


  1. General Tanden

Using a different button to activate makes Makoto say different things. EXing adds another quote for a total of four. I haven’t determined when using a different button changes the SA in any way or not yet.

This SA activates immediately. Like Gigas Breaker immediately. After you input the command, the game goes to the Tanden’s special freeze frame. This is where the screen darkens, lightning strikes, and the camera zooms in on Makoto as she poses. What’s so special about it? You know how the game essentially stops and you can’t input any commands during freeze frames? Well, you can now. Not your opponent, just you. Keep in mind, I’m only talking about direction input. If you want to do a Hayate right after the freeze, you can input the qcf during the freeze, and hit the punch as soon as the freeze is over instead of wasting precious time by doing it all after the freeze. Having your attack come out that much sooner after the freeze makes it that much harder for your opponent to parry.

As soon as the freeze is over, there is a recovery frame. It’s completely optional so if you don’t feel like waiting and want to attack, go right ahead. However, the recover frame is where the invincibility is. Pardon me, I meant FULL INVINCIBILITY!!! NOTHING CAN TOUCH OR HARM YOU!!! YOU ARE AN IMMORTAL AMONG MEN!!! Up until the recovery frames end, that it. If the recovery ends (when time passed or you moved) so does the invincibility. And remember, it’s the longest invincible animation in the game. This doesn’t mean you can sit around on your ass but learn to exploit its length to the fullest when necessary.

Damage isn’t increased by a fixed percentage. All attacks are boosted by a unique amount. Still, it’s extra pain.

All your attacks gain a slight bit of priority. In technical terms, more hit boxes become available to your attacks. I’ve beaten out Shoryus with j.RH on several occasions.

General rule of thumb for me is to activate either when I’m screwed and make an awesome comeback or when I’m sure I can finish the round quickly.


  1. Tanden on wakeup

This is going to be the most obvious use of Tanden. Your opponent will have a pretty easy time figuring out when you’re going to use this. What he’ll have a harder time figuring out is what you’re going to do. If he throws an uncancellable at you, go ahead and parry to buffer into a Karakusa. Otherwise, just let him whiff before you punish. Go ahead and parry if you think you’re up against a moron. If he turtles up, get ready to fuck with his head.


  1. Tanden on okizeme (when your opponent is waking up)

Doesn’t the uncertainty of what you’re opponent is going to do on wakeup frustrate you? Tired of eating Shoryus? Supers getting you down? Well, with the TANDEN RENKI 3000, uncertain okizemes are a thing of the past! Just activate as your opponent is waking up, gauge the situation, and VOILA! Say, that looks like a shoryu! Better get those parries ready. You can even let him fall on a Fukiage for good measure. Gee wiz, it looks like he’s trying to jump to avoid a grab. Golly, I wonder if I should follow him into the air with a RH or if I should short-kara a Fukiage as he comes down. With the TANDEN RENKI 3000, the possibilities are limitless! (Cheezy '50s advertisement imitation is now over…I am so ashamed of myself…)


  1. Tanden on anti-air

There are two ways to use Tanden as an anti-air

A) First is very simple, guage your opponent’s trajectory and decide on the best course of action.

B) This is a bit more complicated. I generally like to use d.RH as an anti-air. Reasons: good range, fast execution, and speedy recovery. Even if it’s parried, it recovers fast enough for you to defend against whatever your opponent counter’s with or even to dash under them. Once I get them to parry on jump-in more often, I’ll start to use strong or fierce as my anti-air. If they get hit…yay! If they parry, I’ll quickly cancel into Fukiage and follow up like normal if it connects. If they miraculously manage to parry that as well, I’ll cancel the Fuki into Tanden. From there, I can try my luck with another Fuki, dash under, etc.

If you ever manage to stun an opponent with a jab-Fuki, this is where one of the most painful combo in the game crawls out of its den. Quickly cancel the Fuki into Tanden and catch them with a fierce on their way down. When the fierce connects, cancel into a taunt. Now you’ve got a damage boost from Tanden AND the taunt. Jump in for a
j.fierce xx fierce, fierce.Hayate
and it’s GG.


  1. Tanden on Hayate follow-up

Here’s a dilemma that every Makoto play faces:
"Alrite, I hit him with a Hayate…what next?"
You could follow up with another Karakusa, but what if he jumps or Shoryus? You could try to sit and block but what if you eat a grab? This is where I love to go Renki. During the activation, I can gauge what the opponent is going to do and react accordingly. This is pretty much the same as Tanden on Okizeme. Remember to activate the Tanden a little late because you recover from a connected Hayate sooner than your opponent does from the hit stun. You need to give him a little time to begin his next move.


  1. Tanden on combo extension

Just slapped your opponent with a fierce? EX Hayate doesn’t look like it’s going to finish them off or just wanna finish your opponent with flashy style? Cancel that fierce into Tanden then follow up however you deem necessary. Personal favorite of mine (simple as it is) is d.strong, firce Hayate. Just activate after a connect cancellable attack and you’ve got yourself a free combo extension.


  1. Tanden on ass saving

Feel like you’re up against the Ghost of Christmas Parry? Tanden is a nice way to save your ass right after your attack gets parried. You have to be pretty quick on your toes about this one. Use your invincibility to mess with him and punish accordingly.


  1. Character specific strategies

I am not going to go into general strategies in this section. This is only going to be about Tanden based strategies.

a. Alex

The “Hero” of the story (sorry Ryu fans). If there’s one thing that often costs me the match against Alex, it’s that pros know the exact range of his Riot Stomps so they can play brutal cross up games on you w/ that move alone. The problem is that once he reaches the apex, he comes down so fast it’s hard to determine which way to block/parry. Solution: Activate Tanden, determine which way is forward, input the command for Fukiage, then hit the appropriate punch button for desired strength and lag as soon as the freeze ends. Follow up anyway that suits your style and keep on the offensive.

Tanden on wakeup will also help you work around Alex’s tick-throw game. Activate, make him whiff his tick, then you throw him instead (or punish as you see fit).


b. Akuma

There are 3 situations in which I like to use SA3 against Gouki. First (and most common) is when he gets Tatsu-happy. Makoto happens to be an unfortunate height that if she crouches to avoid getting chipped at mid-screen, she’s going to get crossed-up by the last hit as Gouki’s coming down. So whenever I see a Tatsu coming, activate and get a Fukiage ready. Gouki’s piss-poor stun guage makes this particularly devious.

2nd, Gouki’s command jump. Our poor karate girl doesn’t have a Shoryu so her options are quite limited when Gouki decides to throw this out. Usually, you have to guess at which attack he’s going to do out of it and hope to get lucky. You could always dash under but you’re not in much of a position to counter attack if you do. So, activate right when he’s in range of his air kick. If he did do the air kick, parry and punish. If he didn’t, then that means he has his air throw, air punch, and slide kick left. So stand still. Don’t move and his air throw and punch will whiff if that’s what he went with. Finally, if he decided to go w/ the slide kick, you have enough invincibility frames left to let it whiff for about half of its duration, but not all the way. You’re going to have to realize what’s happening quick, parry low, then slap him around.

3rd, Gouki’s SA2. Since it’s generally accepted that SA1 is his best SA, you probably won’t have too many chances to use this but it’s bound to cross your path sometime so here it is. If he misses w/ SA2, wait until the block stun from his final shoryu wears off. You have enough time to his him w/ a mp.Fukiage before he hits the ground. Even better, SA3 -> mp.Fukiage -> f.dash -> lp.Fukiage.


c. Chun-Li (I swear, this bitch takes all the fun out of the game)

When she gets you in the corner, it’s damn near GG. Pokes, kara-throws, easy hit comfirms…it’s just too much to take. SA3 to the rescue. Activate on wake-up, see what she’s doing, execute accordingly. I used to think that it was safe to parry anything she did and Karakusa after since she didn’t have any good cancels to punish w/. However, smart players will cancel into Hazanshu or EX Hyakuretsu so be careful. It’s often safer to let them whiff before punishing. Occasionally, you’ll get Chuns that like to back up and see if you’ll do a wake-up throw, which they’ll be more than happy to punish w/ a d.foward xx SA2. So, you’ve activated and Chun is just sitting there, now afraid of what you’re going to do. That’s when you super jump away from the corner as if Scorpion’s going to come jump kicking out of it (feel free to scream, “RUN AWAY!!!” when you do this…I usually do :rofl:). Now Chun’s no longer in your face, you’re out of the corner, and she’s wondering what the hell just happened. Proceed.

2nd. It’s always hard to get into a good Chun’s face. Jump-in or dash-in SA3 will help set up an offensive.

3rd situation is more for showing off than anything. After parrying the first barrage of kicks of Chun’s SA2, activate right before (and I mean just a few frames before) the 2nd set starts. Start still and watch all 8 kicks go right through you. Jump, parry the last kick on the way down, j.fierce (does the diagonal jump version) -> fierce xx hp.Hayate.

Edit: I forgot to mention this before. I love using this SA okizeme. You never know when Chun will try to wake up w/ an EX SBK and Tanden will put you in prime position to punish it w/ a Fukiage. Just remember to activate late so you can confirm what chun is doing.


d. Dudley

Pretty basic. Dudley has a MEAN corner game, especially cruel agaist Makoto because of her large hitbox. SA3 to break his rhythm.

Style Points: The last uppercut of his Rocket Uppercut is fairly easy to parry. 3 high or 2 low for Makoto (I prefer high to avoid crouch penalty if I screw up). Once you’re in the clear, Dudley is in prime position to eat a Fukiage. Activate SA3 for extra pain, stun, and humiliation.


e. Elena

One of the toughest matches for Makoto if the other player knows what he’s doing (IMHO). Her best pokes give her range and makes her hop…a nightmare for Makoto since it damn near craps out her Karakusa game. You’ll feel particularly frustrated after eating a few kara-throws. Release that frustration w/ Makoto in a Tanden Renki and and break free of pokes and kara-throws. Remember not to get too greedy against Elena w/ Renki’d since she has the Scratch Wheel.


f. Hugo

Ever seen a Gigas Breaker go right through a Renki’d Makoto?
Right here
Learn how many invincibility frames SA3 has and abuse it.

Hugo is stronger, throws faster, and has better range. Use SA3 once he’s in close and starts using command throws to make him whiff and set yourself up for an offensive.


g. Ibuki

She’s fast…really fast…honestly, I probably shouldn’t use Tanden against Ibuki. I still do anyways just to make things interesting. Ibuki matches usually go so fast that I rarely remember what happened, but in retrospect I think I activate when I’m desperate (probably the safest desperate SA in the game), as a finisher, or as a Hayate follow-up.


h. Ken

Nothing too specific against Ken. Normally I just use EX moves, maybe save up for a finisher or desperation.


i. Makoto

You know the drill, after a Hayate, it’s rock-paper-scissor for damage. Activate SA3 to take the guess work out of the equation.

Favorite show-off combo of mine: Block opponent’s Abare Tosanami. Red-parry the third hit and activate. Jump and parry the last punch then it’s j.fierce (diagonal ver.) -> fierce xx hp.Hayate.


j. Necro

I consider him the master of field control. A good Necro knows how to keep you in your dead zone with his arsenal of long-ranged attacks and AA’s. Dash-in super to break his keep-away pokes then close the distance w/ a d.strong xx hp.Hayate.

Necro can also use his drill kick to cross you up once you’re down in the corner. Activate on wake-up to know which way to parry, Fukiage if you have the time, or dash your ass out of there.


k. Oro

I call it the Tengu Breaker. Once Oro has you in the corner w/ Tengu Stones active and chipping away at your life, you pretty much screwed since the stones will hit you out of Seichusen after the first hit and will hit you on the way up for an Abare. Only option is to activate in the middle of a Tengu poke chain and get ready to parry. Remember that it’s four QUICK parries. The stones are not going to wait for you (think X.N.D.L., Kasumi Suzaku, Sei’ei Enbu, etc.). The stones are seperate so they will NOT slow down. And I am not neglecting EX Tengu Stones. If Oro activates EX SA3, you’re probably in the middle of a juggle w/ nothing you can do until you hit the ground. But if for some reason Oro decides to poke at you w/ EX SA3, just get ready to parry 6 times.


l. Q

This is such an unfair match for Q. Use Tanden to make him whiff a Catch and Deadly Blow.


m. Remy

It’s probably better to use SA2 here but SA3 just suits my playing style better so I still use it. A blocked Clod Blue Kick (see PS2 Anniversary Edition manual) gives Remy as much frame advantage as a connected Hayate, allowing him to continue w/ his pokes. I use Tanden here to break out of the pokes and stay close.


n. Ryu

Why try to parry a corner Denjin trap when you can super and let it pass right through you. This is going to be some serious mind game though. There’s always the possibility that the opponent might hold the Denjin and release it really late in case you’re trying to invincible your way through.

Another way I like to use Tanden against Ryu is the same way I’d use it against Chun in case Ryu feels like waking up w/ an EX Tatsu


o. Sean

Fairly standard play here. I tend to fight Seans much like I would fight Kens. SA3 is a nice way to punish a blocked Shoryu Cannon though.


p. Twelve

Activating right before he flies into you is a nice way to gauge what he’s doing and punish accordingly. Though I normally tend to use up the meter for EX when up against a good Twelve


q. Urien

This is how I get out of unblockables and corner traps. Activate on wake up and use the invicibility to avoid getting hit by Urien and the Aegis. As soon as Urien’s attack goes through you and he’s in recovery, parry the Aegis down (can go wrong w/ low tech) and grab Urien. The point is to get out of the Aegis so DON’T neutral grab.


r. Yang

Fairly standard play against Yang. Once again, I tend to use the meter for EX more than supers. If Yang goes Sei’ei Enbu, do NOT activate before he does because you’ll just be asking for a trashing. He won’t even have to combo you so he’ll avoid damage scaling and give you an extra brutal beating. Activating when you get a chance during a Sei’ei Enbu rush is a great way to set up parries though.


s. Yun

When up against Yun, I like to save SA3 until he’s activated and trying to poking an opening. Activate when you get a break, parry the incoming attack (or let it whiff) and punish. I actually prefer to directional throw him since it keeps him on the ground the longest and therefore burns his meter out the most. If he doesn’t have that much left, I’ll just do whatever will cause the most damage.

This is it for now. I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I’ve forgotten so I’ll update as I remember. Let me know what you think.


#3

tanden is pretty cool in my book.


#4

Ok you referenced a DBZ episode and your trying to say that Tanden is better than SA1 or SA2. Dude you have lost your mind.

Given that Tanden is good if you can parry with the best of them, and god knows makoto is a gimmicky bitch, but seriously… no blocking? I mean kiss your shit good bye. Now given its got some awesome invincibility on activation, and you can run a hurt train on just about anyone. But makoto loses alot of options with this super, and you get knocked down = GG. Its fun to play but not even close to SA1 or SA2


#5

I once knocked out a Ken with Tanden Renki in five seconds, but it was all lucky, and a lame Ken player xD.

If you land something like “s.hp x hp.hayate” or “f.hp” you can cause some pretty good damage, but you have to parry every attack. Just against Yang, you may eat a fist and have no time to use Tanden

I prefer SA2, it’s funny to juggle and it’s got the thingy of a SuperArt, not a “PowerUpTime”.


#6

I’d love to learn some tricks with the TR.


#7

I would also really enjoy hearing some tricks you have to offer, Im willing to pick up Tanden for playing against…certain characters anways. But it will take a lot of convincing to make me play a Yun with it =0. I figure your basic/parrying skills will get better if you choose SA3, so I’m all for hearing your stuff. And if you do choose to post info, maybe post some characters that are good to use it on?


#8

I am interested.

DUDE, I would totally like to hear your idea’s on it. Don’t hold out now!:wgrin:


#9

Not everyone who is interested in reading about it is going to post in here, so just go ahead and post the tricks.


#10

I’m interested as well. TR looks like it would be really fun to use.


#11

this better be good. :rofl:


#12

tip #1 - do liek awesum comboses LOL!!
tip #2 - parry everything
tip #3 - PROFIT


#13

^hilarity XD

i really like it when people run away after i activate:x maybe they know something i don’t.

aren’t there already a few decent threads for this ?

will tanden-invincible-frames make throws whiff? --such a noob at 3s mechanics.


#14

Enjoy


#15

Thank you thank you, Ill read it later and will probly have some questions. Maybe their will be a huge increase in sa3 usage?? We can only hope…


#16

you can karakusa, s.HP, Tanden, and F.Hayate.

It all combos, its a good solid way to activate because you catch them on the hayate mixup

I’d also like to say that Tanden can get far meatied easily on wake up, and even if you down parry, your going to eat super for sure.


#17

MOD

You can karakusa, s HP, Tanden, c.mp, m hayate. I took that from arlieth’s short little guide, he said do that or either dash in and grab.


#18

tut tut tut…what many Makoto players fail to realize is that you can connect with a H.Hayate after a MP (of any kind)


#19

yep

Seichuusen does less damage then shinsho, not a whole lot but it becomes noticeably more with the free follow-up it provides

Tanden = to or greater than Seichuusen or abare… In invincibility frames yep, in damage potential yep, in practical use not a chance

Tanden has great damage potential, which in most situations will not be achieved due to it pretty much requires you to constantly guess right and/or make your opponent guess wrong multiple times due to its long length.

Once they successfully defend whatever you do your gonna get hit hard, and depending on how early they do this you might end up eating mulitible combo’s.

Their are ways around this but it in essence playing a pretty much a super less mak only using tanden when you are low on health or using the activation to finish them off.

Compare this with abare, once mak gets a little over one stock mak can do 100% damage combo’s to 13 or so members of the cast.

Or with seichuusen you get solid damage and decent stun, with numerous hitconfims

:looney:
mak can crouch under the last couple hits akuma’s tatsu and it doesn’t cross up in the corner so if you pay attention its free karakusa. If you lazy its altleast free cr. shortxhayate

I was going to take the time to break your whole post down but i’ll summarize

in conclusion alot of your logic is quite flawed, miss using abare or seichuusen you will get punished for it with a combo, miss use tanden you will get punished for it, then again and possibly again all on the same activation.:sad:


#20

Thanks for the info Kryojenix, going in more depth would be nice =). You have persuaded me to pick SA3 a lot more now, I’ll see how it fairs.

Oh and thanks for tellin me c.mp --> hp hayate is better, I thought you meant it was better in damage and than I tested it to find out it had the same damage. But I figured out why u suggested it now (ending up closer to the enemy). Thanks.

-EDIT-
Hehe, I just supered through Uriens Aegis reflector and grabbed him…what a great feeling!!! I wonder if it would work on unblockables? WOuld u happen do know?