Team Aerial Combos need Change


#1

I read through the top 3 “WTF were they thinking” thread and was surprised to see that TAC’s were universally disliked. TAC’s are extremely easy to pull off for the rewards you get, and the risk? Close to none. TAC’s create a guessing game, in which the odds heavily favor the aggressor, earning them huge rewards for no risk. Let’s look at the facts:
[LIST]
[]TAC’s are virtually risk free. If you get countered, you’re reset to positions in which your opponent cannot punish you.
[
]If you successfully pull off a TAC, you get a free tag(s) and either a ton of free meter or damage.
[*]66% chance to land a TAC. With 3 options and your opponent only being able to counter one way, you have a 2/3 chance to land the TAC.
[/LIST]
Those already make for a broken system. Why make such an easy/risk free system that can be exploited, when people spend so much time learning combos for less reward/more risk. I understand they can’t counter your combos, but if you drop one, you can get punished. In UMvC3, you can now steal a meter from your opponent, making this already broken system, much more so.

TAC’s need a risk if they’re both going to favor the aggressor and reward him so heavily. TAC’s would be much more balanced if:
[LIST]
[]TAC’s costed some meter to attempt. At least in this scenario, they’ll have something to lose if they do decide to go for it.
[
]TAC’s didn’t knock you back and allowed the opponent a chance to possibly punish the attempt.
[*]TAC’s didn’t have the perks of free meter/stealing meter/damage. But instead was a safe way to tag out, meter free.
[/LIST]
Either way, the system as it is, is broken. With as many people out there who do not like TAC’s maybe we could make our voice heard before UMvC3 is released.


#2

I agree that there needs to be a little more risk involved. Like, make it a 50/50 guess and I’d be cool with it. And online lag often makes them impossible to counter.

The downside to TACs is that you’re giving up potential combo damage if your opponent guesses correctly.


#3

You can reaction counter TAC in ultimate as it stands since the characters glow a color based upon which TAC they are using so…


#4

My problem with TAC is that it’s a simple guessing game that decides between a 50% combo (if you break) and a 100% combo (if the TAC improves their DHC order; gives access to a level 3; gives enough meter to finish you off), or whether they can secure a Dark Phoenix. I mean yeah, there is always subtle guessing games in fighters, like with okizeme, but TAC is almost literally Rock/Paper/Scissors. That should not be a mechanic in any video game period.


#5

consequences if broken depending on side

if broken downwards, the other person should gain a whole bar
if side, you lose a bar
if up, it takes a larger chunk of health

basically, a reverse affect.

also, limit the options depending on situation

if i’m under, a down exchange should be IMPOSSIBLE so leaving just the option of up or forward
if above, up should be IMPOSSIBLE
if on the side then all are possible

that will balance it better i think. what do you guys think


#6

Is there somewhere I can go that explains this in detail?

Thanks!


#7

The glow different colors depending on the side and the counter frame is longer.


#8

I’m telling you guys. Use one meter, but be uncounterable. TVC is better.


#9

This.


#10

it seems that people NEVER stop complaining. It makes the game cooler/more diverse. Stop whining. It seems as if people want to abuse the fact that the game can be changed via patching so they just want to patch everything that THEY didn’t agree with. What if Capcom wants to leave TAC’s in? Ever wonder about how THEY felt? Sure, the customer is always right, but not to the point where the “customer” wants to turn the game into another boring piece of shit fighting game like the other thousands there are out there. Always wanting to remove what give the game substance; what makes the game stand out and differ from others. No, thats not good enough for you. Take it away. Put in something that thousands of other games have. -____- MvC3 will single handedly destroyed the fighting game community. I can see it already.


#11

Totally Agree

I’d prefer it if they just got rid of TAC completely as it cheapens the idea of team synergy related to combos. Do these characters have no synergy? then just TAC and reap huge benefits related to meter and risk/reward!


#12

there are 2 types of complaints made on shoryuken. A complaint made by experience players and then scrub complaints.
This is as far as a scrub complaint as you can get and you should honestly STFU. You have no concept of what risk reward is because if you did, you’d realize that the system is TOTALLY broken as it currently is.


aside from the usual dumb fucks on srk, I love this thread. TAC’s are really bullshitty in this game. TAC’s are another form of tagging\dhc. Its there to allow your other characters in the game. Now look @ the rest of the stuff that does that. Tagging isn’t safe as it can be easily punished. DHC’s cost meter and quite a bit of them aren’t even safe. So why should TAC’s get the side step and break all the rules even though tags\dhcs perform the same ending scenario?

  • remove the bar buidling aspect of TACs. Only allow them to exchange characters, thats it. I don’t mind the recombo-ing process though. Its a good touch to a new mechanic. If you land a TAC and they don’t build bar, your incoming combo will build meter anyway and depending on your team chemistry\character, that will determine how much bar you get. You know, like team chemistry concepts…
  • they should cost a meter and still be breakable.
  • if broken, the opponent should fall down ABOVE YOUR HEAD, not full screen, and you should be able to combo for free. If someone does a bad DHC or a bad tag, those are punishable so TACs should be punishable too. This will adjust the risk\reward ratio.
  • increase the window of the break time.
  • allow people to see which version of the TAC is coming. Right now its so fast its impossible to react to which one they will throw out. Its a pure guess @ this point unless someone is purposely going for bar on dark phoenix teams or other similar strategies.

#13

I’m for TAC costing a meter.

None the less, characters with air supers will be strong because now you can j.XFC > super > DHC

Its really going to balance things out.


#14

Here’s where I disagree. It’s not “the odds favoring the aggressor”, it’s the odds favoring the guy who has already secured the combo on you. It’s his combo at this point. You’re the ragdoll dummy who got mixed-up and hit earlier, and now it’s his game until he drops it. Him using a TAC is actually giving you a potential out where before there was none.

The rest of the concerns hardly matter because you’re missing the point that it was his combo to do as he chose, not some neutral state that is supposed to be fair to both players. Think about it like Throw Techs - you don’t get a sudden combo on the other guy because you teched his throw. Your reward is just not getting thrown. Hell in Super Turbo, you still were thrown and just took less damage. And you’d still try to tech the throw every time because it was better than the alternative.

Think about why people use TACs. You have 6 reasons:
[LIST=1]
[]The TAC glitch which lets a technical player style on you for days while building shit tons of meter because hit stun is goofed until someone lands.
[
]4+ Meter gains for Phoenix teams through down/side TACs into style combos.
[]Making DHC glitches easier by TACing to a starter (like Magneto or Storm).
[
]Build some extra meter/do a bit of extra damage with a quick combo extension.
[]Try to reorder the team for various other reasons.
[
]Because they’re terrible and don’t know any real combos.
[/LIST]
The first 3 things on that list are going away or being minimized in Ultimate because they’re retarded, and the 6th doesn’t matter at all.

They’re even making TACs easier to counter by adding in a goofy color recognition component.

Now to say that breaking a TAC isn’t valuable? If you break a TAC on any of those first 4 reasons, you probably saved a character’s life and/or kept them from getting a boatload of meter. You also just reset the game to neutral, whereas before it was heavily in his favor. He was either going to kill a character and get a setup on your next guy coming in, or he was going to end the combo into a knockdown where he could then setup a mix-up as you got up. Instead of all that, you’re neutral.

If you broke the TAC for reason #5? You denied him a safe tag. You now force him to raw tag (dangerous) or use some other way to fix their team. Or they just have to deal with it.

TACs can be abusive and they’re being nerfed in those situations where they are - probably even overnerfed in Ultimate. If the color component makes them something easy to counter, they’ll just be something bad players use because they don’t know real combos because no one else will want that uncertainty in their game. And I’m not worried about bad players that need 2-3 combos to kill 1 character.


#15

THIS THIS THIS…There is already plenty of risk in doing it as it is.

You’re getting comboed, you should consider yourself lucky that I’m actually giving you a say in what happens next by doing a TAC.

No free combos for pushing a direction and pressing S


#16

agree 100% while they are annoying especially online when it is really hard to counter, it gives you a chance to escape actually in the hands of a good player most of the cast can ToD you especially if have a low health characters (zero, amm, etc) I can think of so many characters than can ToD them for example she hulk, tasky, sentinel, hulk so if they go for a TAC it actually gives me a shot to where otherwise I would be dead no matter what.


#17

TAC’s suck because they can’t really be used creatively; all that happens during air combos is that your opponent will start mashing that S button and directions at random. For that reason alone TACs fail.


#18

If TAC’s are breakable visually now, they’re going to be useless. Any player with even decent reaction times is going to break them 100%, so who’s even going to bother?


#19

I vote TAC costing a meter, being unbreakable and putting up the damage scaling while putting down the hit stun scaling a little.

DHC can be unsafe, but only if you are retarded generally (obviously some characters/teams just don’t have good DHC options) and raw tagging costs you red life. I don’t see why paying one meter for a guaranteed tag, maintaining red life but not doing a shit load of damage is a bad compromise.


#20

It’s not but some people apparently want TACs to be scrub roulette. It’s also worth noting that unless TACs are implemented along the lines of Mistress’ suggestion that online gameplay will continue to be (ignoring netcode issues) a pale facsimile of how the game actually plays because it is incredibly random whether or not one is able to counter TACs online.