That's what I call BIG DAMAGE?

No one’s actually suggested that though.

My comparisons might have implied that, but I was merely making comparisons.

Sorry.

I’ve only played a handful of fighting games from my youth. Compared to SF2WW, this is nothing. :stuck_out_tongue: Get thrown and lose 25% of your hp.

SSF4AE and MVC3 are the latest craze. Comparing it to SSF4AE, this is pretty healthy damage tweaking. Damage nerfs in AE buffed the game. I look at it as a qualitative balancing. MVC3 certainly is higher damaging in average than MVC2, but that’s an entirely other *different *game. This just feels right to me. This game was made to be fast, flashy and rewarding for effort; the default damage settings compliment those ideas.

Were it any lower, we’d be stepping back into slower matches though. If matches need to be timed out, they will. We’ve already seen a lot of it happen already with the current default damage on streams that have broad casted the game this weekend.

I’m watching the video Sanford did with Seb
[media=youtube]xTbSJNzKYGM[/media]

Even though Sanford thinks the damage is high, he said he thinks it’s not a good idea to lower, it would be more time overs. When people learn to block, it’ll be harder to open people up more. He says it near the end of the video @ 21:00 mark.

Doing magic series into flying screen xx super isn’t flashy. Not to be disrespectful or anything but I think this is something that most veterans of fighting games in general can agree on.

I would think games are timing out because players don’t know how to play the game. I don’t see timeouts between people who understand the system and have their control issues worked out. I know we’re saying that this isn’t the same game as MVC2 but honestly this game feels a lot like low tier MVC2 with the damage bumped up pretty high. Sure, it’s balanced because everyone can do 100% life. But is it fun? A lot of the appeal of MVC2 came from seeing cool stuff you hadn’t seen elsewhere done in a creative way for powerful results, which is why the meta kept evolving over 10 years.

Also, having lower damage settings would encourage evolution in the gameplay by forcing people to come up with more efficient/better ways to deal damage. I think this is the key. Why would anyone sit in training mode and try to evolve the game if launch into magic series into super will do 70% life?

So I support having lower damage. That’s my opinion though.

In MvC2 there were infinities so who cares? This game is simply more fair if anything.

@YummySushi: That’s pretty much what I’ve been saying for a while now.
And I already posted this in one of the news article threads but I’m posting it here too for its relevance:

The issue I have with the “ST had insane damage” argument is not that the execution needed in that game was very high, but that in ST, it was far less based around mix up and gimmicks, whereas that’s what Marvel is all about.

What I mean is, yes you can get killed in 2 combos in ST, but if one of those combos actually landed it was because the player fucked up baaaaad. In Marvel 3, with all the crazy mix ups, it’s so easy to be caught with two successive combos. This is especially true when you see how open ended the juggle system is and how many opportunities there are to throw in mix ups hardly anyone has seen before.

This is my main concern, that the damage doesn’t come from a deep understanding of your opponents mindset, but from random, hard to deal with mix ups (which can also be said about MvC2, but there it’s much harder to pull these off). I can see myself enjoying this game (it certainly looks fun as hell), but I think I’ll be using the low damage option more often.

Either way I don’t think it matters. Right now the go to strategy seems to be wait to use xfactor on your 3rd character after the other two die, then get 20 seconds of launch into magic series 100% kills or near it. I would like to see how this game plays out and am fine with the damage now but am not againest it being lowered by any means.

Had a long session with a friend yesterday and the majority of our matchs were one person getting touched twice dieing, next character dieing to a combination of momentum and corner mix ups within maybe 15 seconds. After that the 3rd character did one of three things, xfactor proceed to get a hit and destory the next three characters in simple magic series, same thing but the other 3rd character xfactors and wins, or the same thing that happened to the 2nd character happens to the third.

Anyway I have no where near given up on this game, I am having a lot of fun and will play it for a long time to come.

With all the crap people had to deal with in SF4 and MvC2 I wonder why they are complaining now? Just some losers who complain that combos are too easy for those who don’t waste hours trying to figure them out. Either way I just really don’t see how this could be any worse than SF4 or MvC2.

^
It sure is.

But people do complain about SF4. Endlessly.
And anyway, damage in SF4 is not at all comparable to Marvel 3. It’s the equivalent of using up 2 or 3 EX bars to KO the other guy in a single combo (if you consider rounds to be characters). Thing is, it’s even worse, because in Marvel you lose the advantages of having the extra character for assists and such. And even worse than that is the fact that mix ups in Marvel are MUCH harder to deal with than in Street Fighter.

Chibi, you asked if I was content with everyone being like Iron Man, in the sense that 1 hit and you’re dead? If almost everyone has a way of doing it, then yes.

Regardless of execution factor, I would like to play a game where every character has a fighting chance.

Yes there are 100% combos, but you also have 3 characters. So they are more like 33% combos, especially now that with X-factor the game isn’t almost certainly over when you lose one.

Also, if we’re going to compare Low Difficulty for High Reward, aren’t double snapbacks in MvC2 kind of like that? I might be totally off on this one, never really played MvC2, so pardon my ignorance if they are actually difficult to pull off.

I haven’t played the game yet so I’m mostly talking out of my ass right now, but one thing I really like to notice when there is a new game is how long matches take. I find it to be a pretty good barometer to measure if a game has any serious, glaring flaws…For MVC3 it seems like most take 2-3 minutes, very close to SF4. And I have still seen quite a few timeouts.

So basically my initial reaction is that people are kind of overreacting. Let the shock value wear off, wait a couple weeks until people learn how to block all the day 1 stuff, and let’s see what happens?

P.S.: All of this is on top of the fact that it’s 2011, and this game is on consoles. If Capcom feels like there are any serious flaws, they WILL make adjustments. Hell, they will probably do it anyway. And I promise you it’ll be a lot sooner than 10 years from now. =)

Good discussion!

honestly, the more i think about reducing damage, the less necessary i think it is
im still having alot of time-outs, maybe not as much as mvc2 but they are still there
sure everyone has a dial a combo magic series into 60-70%, but that’s just par for the course, since everyone has it
now that infinites are gone and loops can only last like 2 or 3 repetitions there isnt going to be that much potential growth for monster combos outside of X-factor and what sentinel can dish out.
this is still marvel, half of the game is finding a way to get that touch, and the reward is the 60% chunk you get from the character, and since alot of mixups got nerfed, that damage is going to be essential.

MvC3-
If i’m on my last character and haven’t used my comeback mechanic yet, i can do insane dmg.
Most characters can do insane dmg combo’s for huge portions of your health. Especially with 1-2 meters.

MvC2-
If i have 5 meters at any point in the match as cable i can kill half if not all of your team from a cross screen whiff.
If i have two meters and storm sent on my team i can kill damn near anyone from anywhere.
I have iron man, i have scored a hit.
I play mag. My infinite does less damage than an average combo in mvc3, but can be landed from just about any hit, in any position, and can reset into itself from more ways than you can shake a stick at.
I play sent, I can turn surplus meters into HSF’s to keep insane dmg going and make sure any hit leads to death even solo.

MvC2 was not only fine, but AMAZING, with all of the above and a whole hell of a lot more. MvC3 has been out for like…an hour. Chill the hell out people. It might suck, it might rule, we don’t fucking know yet.

I’m open to lowering the damage, but I definitely agree that you have to let the game settle for a while at the default settings and observe how tournament play evolves this year before you can pass judgment on it. It might just take some getting used to.

I’m not saying this is even a valid cause, but have you ever considered that there may actually be more time outs because people are taking much less risks for fear of the opponent getting the 80%+ “free” off from their own initial hit?

the game could probably use a 15% damage nerf (more on some characters like thor) and really really harsh scaling on normals and specials (but not hypers, hypers reset scaling to maybe 75%?). You should really have to commit for a 100% combo, or otherwise be forced to reset/mixup once or twice on your way to killing off a character. everyone knows magneto/storm mixups made mvc2 extremely fun to watch. go watch jwong vs soo and you should be able to see how landing consecutive resets makes your victory that much more godlike

If you lower the damage setting then you take away the utility of level one KFC’s. The whole point of high damage seems to be there so you have that strategic choice of whether to spend your KFC on a 100% combo to cripple the opponents team, or whether you save it to use as for a comeback. Just a thought…

But isn’t the damage output the same as in Marvel 2? I mean marvel 2 had 100% combos this game has 100% combos. Most of the really high damage combos require a fair bit of meter or x-factor or both. They’re easier to do, sure but if that’s bad then what you’re saying is the the execution bar being lowered IS the problem.

Like a lot of people have said, let the game grow for a bit. We will need to take into consideration how much red health is created, how easy it is to tag out and as a result how much easier it is to heal up and preserve your character. People should give the game a little time first.

With most characters being able to do BIG DAMAGE from a combo surely the skill in this game is to not get hit into a combo.

How do you achieve that?

Don’t throw out punishable stuff,

Know the range of your opponents BIG DAMAGE and don’t be there while they can throw out an attack that you can’t block

Is Marvel vs Capcom 3 a game of spacing and blockstrings???

i think low damage setting is better