The ABC Feedback Thread

Here be the threads for the previous Av battles:

ABC X - Fuckachunkz/Guilty Gear/Technology
ABC #9 - Time
ABC #8 - Rock n’ Roll
ABC #7 - Food
ABC #6 - Weapons (w/ a Soul Calibur Bonus)
ABC #5 - Street Fighter
ABC #4 - Darkstalkers
ABC #3 - Sprite Commercials
ABC #2 - Booty/Boobies, Sprites, & SRK
ABC #1 - Trial & Error

As always here are some questions that need not be answered…because we want feedback on other things:

[]What prevented you from entering the contests?
]Is the time to make the av too long or short?
[]When should the entries be finally in?
]Are the themes sucky, limiting or not good enough?
[]Should there be less of an emphasis on Prem size avs (160x100)
]What do you want from an av contest?
[]Any other suggestions?
]What should the judging be like? Who should judge?

Regardless of how suggestions against quiche’s choices, most notably the 8 judges, judges that could enter and a stills + animation category, I think this contest came off pretty well all things considered. Lots of entries which is very nice to see all the time. Darkdragon finally popping his head into IMM. Lots of novices showing good work.

Of course most of the participants wouldn’t have joined had it not been for quiche’s efforts to get people to join, PMing them individually and seeking out people. Of course the big sticky helps as well.


  1. What prevented you from entering the contests?: I did not enter the first contest because I do my av-stuff during my downtime at work, and I can’t work on boobie avs here. I generally don’t get on the computer and use photoshop at home, because I do enough of that day-in, day-out on the clock. Which brings me to why I didn’t enter the second contest. The way it was structured required a time investment. I’m in if it takes me 2 hours to complete the avatar idea in my head and I can do it in eight 15 minute sessions over the course of a few days while I’m here at work. However, the overly complicated nature of this last battle made me feel as though I couldn’t make a competitive entry within my own personal time constraints.

  2. Is the time to make the av too long or short?: 5 days is a LONG time. Turn around for me on the stuff I do professionally is a few hours, max. Of course, that is for the proof, and not for revisioning and fine-tuning. But revisions and fine tuning should only be so that you can get your graphic idea to match the vision of the customer. However, there is no customer to get feedback from. If I were a business, asking for a letterhead, logo, or graphic design of some sort, anything more than 5 days is terrible. Obviously, we are talking about a friendly contest, and not something that will put food on the table, but deadlines and shortened timeframes tend to seperate the taggers with skill from the mediocre taggers that have lots of time to experiment.

  3. When should the entries be finally in?: Some of us have jobs, school, and other things preoccupying us. Is there a proper time for everyone to have time to make an av and submit it? Sometimes responsibilities keep you from doing everything you want to do. It isn’t the end of the world if everyone doesn’t enter every contest.

  4. Are the themes sucky, limiting or not good enough?: Handled well, a theme can give insiration and direction to an open canvas, however if you handle a theme wrong, it can stifle creativity. I like past av war themes, as it let everyone get creative, however these last two battle themes pushed the taggers into similar avs without much of an “open season” feel.

  5. Should there be less of an emphasis on Prem size avs (160x100): Design for the page. The page is defined by the customer, not by the designer. I think the image constraints should change from battle to battle.

  6. What do you want from an av contest?: I like the idea of simple themes and frequent contests rather than complicated themes and longer deadlines.

like my opinon matters but…

[*]What prevented you from entering the contests?: i suck at life/ i was a judge

[*]Is the time to make the av too long or short?: sorta. for more advanced av makers like OC and DG it can take them a few hours when it takes mid-tier or low-tier av makers a couple of days. also, you have to keep in mind that some people have lives outside SRK and they cant commit as much time as one should regarding these battles. 3-4 days should probably the waiting period, IMO.

[*]When should the entries be finally in?: whenever the host says so. it’s the host’s battle and if you want to enter then you must comply to the host’s rules. simple as that.

[*]Are the themes sucky, limiting or not good enough?: the themes arent the best but they dont suck, hell, i was the one who helped suggest the last two themes to gqac. themes are not hard to come up with but you have to consider the other contestants that are’nt as good/god-like as the others.

[*]Should there be less of an emphasis on Prem size avs (160x100): yes and no. prem sized av’s are the shit, IMO, and you can only do so much with reg. av’s. if your looking for an all-star challenge battle then i suggest reg. sized av’s other than that then naw man.

[*]What do you want from an av contest?: what any other person would want out of going to EVO as a spectator or any person would want out of a sports event, entertainment. anything less would be uncivilized:tdown:[/list]


  1. The timing just didnt work for me. I consider myself very lazy with this especially since it’s nowhere near at any height on my list of priorities. Also, having the occupation I have, I get tasked out to do alot of things at any given time.

And even with all of that, I havent been an active “tagger” for atleast a year and a half.

  1. For me the time to make an av is inspirational dependent. when i make stuff, I’ll have the initial idea and then just bend and stretch as i go. I think given a week to make an av is too much time, but also you could be entered in a challenge and then somethign can randomly come up preventing you from doing the project at that moment. So larger windows help with things like that.

  2. Yes, i would suggest 3 days or something. If people cant get into the challenge or come up with a submission in that time, then that’s just the nature of the beast.

  3. As a participant I would not enjoy the themes so far. Mainly because it’s way too limited in my opinion, and caters heavily in a tunnel to the strengths of those already favored. If the themes were broader then I think it would get more entrees aswell as allowing others to use their own personal strengths. Having a contest specified with animation and sprites everytime isn’t variety. Limiting something to sprites is pretty big, and even forcing animation or forcing static hurt too. But i do understand that it’s to help become better.

However my point remains that the themes are very limited and favored, and should be more broad and open ended. You shouldn’t be able to almost picture or grasp what certain entrees will look like. In my opinion, it should be a surprise following the guidelines.

  1. In my opinion it shouldn’t be emphasized on premium size, but that could be the max. I think that if someone wanted to make a smaller av in dimensions, they should be able to. Especially if you’re a regular member, made an av in the “required” prem size, didn’t win the challenge, but couldn’t wear your own finished product due to it being too large.

Ok thanks for the replies…also suggest some themes.

I should bring up that IMHO the themes or at least the rules regarding the themes do sort of favor those who animate or even those who join usually. The two examples used in the last av battle were animated and the rule for using “sprites” is awfully limiting to quite a few people who on the board do very well without the use of sprites; BlodiaVulcan comes to mind with his amazing Mario Revolution av a while back.

But I would like a bit more discussion to go about here, you don’t have to answer the questions, they were just suggestions for those who didn’t know what to ask. But just talk that’s all.


  1. I’d liked to have entered, in fact, I worked on an entry for the ass/SRK/sprite one. But I don’t have enough time to devote to something like this right now.

  2. I think the time granted is just enough.

  3. Doesn’t this relate to the last question?

  4. The themes thus far are pretty good. With creativity you can interpret all sorts of ideas from “ass/SRK/sprite” and “sprite/advertisement.”

  5. Perhaps seperate contests for 160x100 and 160x64 avs?

  6. I want more Chibi, since he uses source pics in his avs I want to herk too.

Bump Bump Bump Bump


  1. as long as the themes have variety, there good.
  2. i think there should be about 4 judges that can give points through the same system… but also add in a poll so everyone else can be apart of the contest.

everything else is fine as is to me.

  1. Not having the time is what prevented me from not being in it this time. Also i’m still out of my PS groove :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, I think that we should have more of an old skool line up on the judging line. At least one or two more. :smiley:

I wouldn’t mind pitching in for the next av battle :smiley: hit me up if u guys need help…lol thinkin about it i should switch back to my old sn Kyosuke87

I want candy.


  1. What prevented you from entering the contests?

    1. Is the time to make the av too long or short?
      To short for me, in the sense that I didn’t get to ‘polish’ my entry, but if it was 2 or 3 weeks, I would care less and the competetion would suck because avs would get too much work. It’s fine like it is.

    2. When should the entries be finally in?
      Thursday night-ish was fine fore me.

    3. Are the themes sucky, limiting or not good enough?
      Themes are all right so far.

    4. Should there be less of an emphasis on Prem size avs (160x100)
      Premium is a bigger canvas to work with; if you’re entry is regular size and just as good, you ought to get brownie points for being an exemplar.

    5. What do you want from an av contest?
      Constructive criticism. And ego stroking. And for it to not matter a whole lot, keep it casual, open to everybody. I’m not going to enter every single one, people should rotate out on their own once in awhile.

    6. Any other suggestions?
      More cowbell. And boobies.

    7. What should the judging be like? Who should judge?
      Mix up the policy a little, rotate judges, #, change the point system after every couple of contests. Anything to keep it fresh and ‘unofficial.’ I dont want to see any art snobbery.

Is the time to make the av too long or short?
the length seems fine cuz you never know when you might get another shot of inspiration and you decide to take another crack at the av.

When should the entries be finally in?
when the organizer specifies…its just common sense and a show of respect.

Should there be less of an emphasis on Prem size avs (160x100)
not really. what I would suggest is not always making the required size 160x100. Ex: maybe the next 2 challenges would be only 160x100 and the challenge after that a 160x64.

What do you want from an av contest?
criticism. At times, I have no clue if my avs are good or not and it bugs the hell out of me. Its always good to have another person give honest (asshole free) remarks about your work and also give their own thoughts on how to improve the av and yourself overall.

What should the judging be like? Who should judge?
I thought the ammount of judges and the judges themselves were fine. I don’t think having as little as 4 judges would do any justice considering the ammount of avs that were entered this challenge. And yes, judges should be able to enter as long as only the organizer knows whos who…besides, its all for fun.

My 2 cents, even though I didn’t enter any of the contests:

I don’t see why animated and still avatars should be in separate categories. There might have been a discussion about this, but I guess I missed it.

Too many judges. Actually, scratch that. Too many underqualified judges. I don’t really care to elaborate about this because I don’t want to get into an argument.



I wanted to hold my tongue, but enough is enough! I’ve always hated you, OC… you and your perfect hair and your designer jeans…

I hate you OrangeCat, I hate you with a passion.

My opinions after running 4 of these.

**1.  	What prevented you from entering the contests?**

Nothing. I entered all 4, in every category. DarkGiygas is the only other person to do this.

**2.  	Is the time to make the av too long or short?**

I think its just about right. I get way too many entries on the last day to say that its too much time. On the other hand, I wouldnt want it to be any longer, as for me, the last 2 days before the battle seemed to drag.

**3.  	When should the entries be finally in?**

When I say so, biatch!

**4.  	Are the themes sucky, limiting or not good enough?**

I think the commercial one was definitely too limiting (and favored animated) Forcing sprites was also a bit unfair. I think that with the success of the DS themed one, Im definitely gonna keep broader themes and let the artists have more freedom, but sometimes its fun to do something like the SRK/Boobies/Sprites one because everyone still came up wth highly creative ideas within the limitations.

**5.  	Should there be less of an emphasis on Prem size avs (160x100)**

Thats a tough one. Honestly, as far as animations go, there just isnt enough you can fit in 20k. Stills however, as Monkeyspank proved, can work just as well (or better) in the 160 x 64 limit.

**6.  	What do you want from an av contest?**

Lots of great entries, a good time had by all, and apt critiques.

**7.  	Any other suggestions?**


**8.  	What should the judging be like? Who should judge?**

I dunno. Honestly, I had no problems with the 8-judge system this time (except for the whining about it). There were so many entries, that I felt like maybe I shoulda had even more judges. Still, I might cut it back to 5 or 6 next time. As for who, I think Im gonna lean a little more heavily toward people with a background in avs, but non-taggers still have a place on my panel.

Yeah, I think the commerial one was a bit too narrow, but really, the Titties/Ass + Sprites + SRK one didn’t have any avs even remotely similar to eachother. I’m definitely going with a broad theme for the next one…maybe even broader than the “darkstalkers” theme of #4.

Ive put you on my pm list for monday…with about fifty other taggers…

Thats exactly what i though when I set up 8 judges, but apparently a lot of people disagree…Im still debating about what to do…I think I may start a new panel from scratch, or something…

How? I cant put 33 items on a poll…once the entries got past 10, a poll was O-U-T out!

Anyway, thanks everyone for the feedback. The next one will be announced on monday, and I already have a feeling itll be bigger than the last one. I have it on good authority that Psychosquall and VicousSLASH will be joining in this one, as well as a host of others.

See you monday!

My only gripe is that the time to make the av’s is just too long. I have never spent more than an hour making an avatar and I can understand some people wanting to take a few days but 5 days seems like a bit much. It is the internet though, and it’s easy for people to be lazy or just plain miss out on something that only lasts for a short time. Maybe if there was a stickied hype thread, and then in the thread a topic was revealed at a set time – then the contest would only last ~2 days or so, that would be good imo. But the way it’s set up now isn’t necessarily bad either.

well on the 3rd battale i had no clue what to make and now the 4th i also had no idea but just turned in last min entries

The time limit is the way it is because a lot of people don’t SRK every day, or only have a certain day or two each week where they have time to do avs. To be fair to everyone, I give enough time for everyone to see the thread, and make an av. I don’t see myself shortening the time, really. Honestly, this time I got about 5 entries on the last day, and another two AFTER the official deadline on friday morning…and I’m glad I got 'em. Actually, the 2nd place animated av, “Darkness Illusion” was one of the ones turned in after deadline.


You don’t need eight judges. Sure, you can get varied critiques from the eight, but you’re better off with refining a team of four who would do just the same. If you start getting like THIRTY entries per category then perhaps you’d need eight judges, but four judges work just fine.