The Consolidated M.Bison Matchup Thread

m-bison

#1

Ok so I got sick of looking through 40+ pages of stuff to find basic info. I’ve taken what looks to be decent info from the thread and put it in an easy to find format. Anything you see in italics if taken from that characters own matchup thread so that we can see what other characters are looking for in particular when they are up against Bison.

If anyone would like to help fill in the holes post your thoughts on the match ups and I will add them.

Also, if someone can tell me how to add the “Show/Hide” buttons on these I will add them so it appears less cluttered.

Abel

-Do NOT let Abel get ANYWHERE near you. His mixups are deadly and from my understanding Bison doesn’t have much to answer with on wakes which any good Abel player should leave you in after his combos. DO NOT GET CORNER TRAPPED.

-Be wary of using random Scissor Kicks when Abel has EX stock. He can EX command throw through it on reaction (the EX version of the command throw has hit invunlerability).

-If Abel starts to roll alot, you can either throw him out of the start of the roll or attempt to jab him where he stops (once again watch out for EX command throw).

-You can jump alot more in this match up. Abel doesn’t have incredibly strong anti-airs. He has a standing air grab, but it reaches at an akward angle along with not having a huge amount of range, although be careful of the EX version as it has super armor and it stays out a bit longer. His j. fp and j.fk are good air to airs, but that’s about it really.

-The whole headstomp-Devil reverse mixup works wonders on Abel. He can only punish headstomp if you land in the corner afterwards and devil reverse if you whiff the punch with ultra or Crackshot/Sean Kick. Otherwise, spam it all day. Make him second guess walking back in attempt to punish your whiffed headstomp.
Just FYI, after reading the above post, don’t devil reverse against Abel when he has ultra. You WILL die.

Akuma

Akuma has a good keep away game, but Bison has many ways to get in.

Although at higher levels, headstomp and devils reverse mixup are pretty risky, the reward against Akuma is incredibly high (he has low life), so using this is fine at times.

Once Akuma is in the corner, back dash in case he shoryukens or teleports out. If he teleports out, punish with a standing hard kick.

If you feel comftorable with a defensive Bison, that is fine. Getting a lead and sittting on it, especially when Akuma has his ultra, works.

To fight against Akuma’s fireball pressure, either work yourself in and standing medium kick pressure or forward teleport headstomp him (covered in Viper area for notation).
If an Akuma is standing hard kick happy, stick out meaty, standing hard kicks to catch him.

*Guaranteed Demons:

Blocked close slide
Blocked far slide (super only)
Backstepped Stomp (Kara the demon)
Blocked Psycho Crusher (not push-through)
Blocked MK or HK scissors
Blocked close Ultra*

Balrog (Boxer)

focus attacks+c.mk= ur best weapons against Rog. once u get a crumple hit; go in for a combo. if u get partial crumple hit…u can either …
1)dash in for a grab
2)back dash and reset the playing field

Considering Boxer’s walk speed in this game, you have to REALLY take a chance with the headstomps. He’ll just walk back on it and throw you on recovery or sweep for oki mixups. Your best bet is to stay ground and poke the shit out of him with s.forward. If you have REALLY good yomi and reflexes, you can stuff his rush punches with s.roundhouse.

Against rog I’ve found the only way to play against him is to be aggressive back. Remember that on wakeup, meaty c mk is your friend…he can only reversal it w/ super, ultra, or ex headbutt. Most rogs like to keep ex for their dash punches, so once you see they have ex meter think about using scissors to counter instead of s hk. I’ve found a sweet spot to be just out of their c hk range, from there you can do lk scissors without getting shut down by c lp, and I have recovered in time to block a counter tap (don’t know if this is consistent though). j hp on wakeup is pretty good, since safe jumping it is not hard and you will likely beat anything he attempts to throw out. Don’t try crossup j mk, he will just headbutt it. Don’t try walk up throw, most rogs are trained to c lp when you get in range. scissor fadc throw works wonders in this match. You can sometimes s hk his jumpin, but the hitbox is different from what his model looks like imo, so you might trade or get stuffed. As always, ex pc to get out of hairy situations. If you see a random ultra (maybe he wants too kill you with chip) and you were charging (99% of this fight) you should be able to throw out a knee press nightmare on the first frame after the super flash and you will not lose unless he was on the other side of the screen, in which case I would suggest teleporting behind him to avoid chip. You can also ultra reversal his super and ultra with your ultra.

Just throw Rog out of his rushes. Problem solved. Focus Dash feint forward throw works also. You can FA his s.rh and get a free throw from the dash in. S.forward and s.rh are your friends in this matchup. Also, c.strong beats all rushes clean. Also, DO NOT EX headstomp in this match at all. Seriously, save your meter for EX psycho crusher. You’ll need it. Same goes for EX scissors against a rush punch.

Being aggressive against Rog gets you killed easily because c.jab > Bison. His wakeup game sucks, so you can just walk up to him and do nothing. The Rog player will EVENTUALLY get desperate and shoot a headbutt and you get free whatever punish. Focus Attack dash straight, low rush, and upper for free s.fierce xx scissors combo. If he wants to ex his way in(which is stupid, but whatever), just have an EX psycho crusher at the ready.

*The flow of this match depends on who is on offense, cause whichever character is on defense has a hard time getting out. They also go pretty even at mid range since their pokes have about equal speed, range, damage, and priority. If you’re on offense just pull off your regular rush down tactics, and you can get a lot of free jump ins since he doesn’t have a reliable anti air against Boxer. Although Dictator can do random head stomps to beat out Boxer’s jump ins, so if he has ex meter stocked try breaking his down charge before jumping in. When there is distance between the characters, Dictator will more than likely start spamming devil’s reverse to build meter and bait you into trying to anti air it. Not only can he steer himself away from your anti air but also beat you out cleanly if he has appropriate spacing. The best thing to do is just walk up and FA it. If he starts going for head stomps just walk backwards to avoid them then punish. If you’re in a situation where you can’t walk backwards then just block it and FA if he does the followup attack, never FA the head stomp though cause it does too much damage, especially the ex version. His lk.scissor kicks are completely safe so don’t bother trying to punish them, and they beat out a lot of your attacks. If he does any other version you can throw out an attack and beat him before he does his next attack. Also if he’s pressed up against you while trying to scissor kick you can throw him during the start up cause he’s still considered grounded during a good portion of the move. If he has you locked down in the corner with repeated scissor kicks you have a few options to get out. Jumping is probably the safest option and you can punish him on the way down, you can focus attack whatever move he does in between the scissor kicks but don’t focus the scissor kicks cause they hit twice, also you can TAP in between moves but do it quick before the next move comes and stuffs you, and you can even ex.headbutt out but don’t let them predict it or they’ll block and punish. A mistake a lot of Boxer players do is get impatient while Dictator is rushing them down, don’t try throwing out random pokes in a desperate attempt to get him away.
WALK BACK WHEN YOU SEE STOMP. i start charging SA2/3 after a backdash to make sure they dont come close. The key is simply to pay more attention to his meter than yourself. Dont attempt to throw him too often if you see if he has stock because he’s definitely using exPC. if they abuse stomp/DR they’re pretty bad because TAPs can catch their DR when they land.

if they’re the type to use st.mk and st.hk after scissors alot, catch their pattern and unload an exRU in the face for a headbutt -> ultra opportunity. when they jump in, get ready to tech throws, because in my experience, they crossup throw, or tick throw after 1 or 2 c.lk quite often. sadly, theres not many combo bisons online who knows how to capitalise a hitting c.lk. (like i can HEHE)*

Blanka

His ultra hits low, high, low if you’re right next to him

Bison vs. Blanka you actually need to move forward a lot. The best thing that Bison has going for him is ground pressure. One of the things that really sucks about Blanka is that his reversal is very often unsafe. EX up ball bounces too high in this game. Some characters can hit him back like another Blanka, Balrog…and Bison. From some ranges you don’t even need a charge, you can do it with just slide.

So this means that if the Blanka doesn’t have ultra (or is in a situation where he’s not going to use it), you can pressure with shorts all day long. Bison is one of the best characters at setting up counter hit traps outside of the shotos because all of his pokes work as setups. So you can do things like, on wakeup, short short (he can’t EX up ball or he gets hit back so he probably won’t do it) then either s.short autohitconfirm (do s.short, b-f rh, so if he sticks something out, the scissor comes out, if he does nothing, nothing happens), walk in a little bit, short short. Or low forward from distance. Or s.fwd. Or walk forward, focus xx dashback (hold focus if he slides; Blanka will slide a lot here because the s.fwd bothers him).

Pressure strings like that really bother Blanka because his reversal isn’t available to him. He also worries that at any time, you can get back in off a level 1 blocked focus, but if he gives up his down charge to try and poke back, you can crossup at any time.

Plus Bison has the advantage on wakeup evasion. EX psycho is pretty much bulletproof vs. Blanka. Even if I know you’re going to do it, if I’m standing next to you, other than a really really well timed throw, I can’t stop you from getting away from me. EX stomp/devil reverse are solid also. In most matches, Blanka can do the same with EX rainbow, but against Bison it doesn’t really work because of his great s.jab (do it after the first backhop). Also, Blanka can backdash away from a lot of characters pressure strings, but against Bison it’s considerably harder because of fast s fwd and (relatively) safe® slide.

Blanka loses to Bison because he can’t stop Bison’s pressure and can’t really establish much pressure of his own. If you let up and turn the match into a poking battle, Blanka can win that fight. As it is, I think the match is a solid 6-4. The only times I win against a Bison of equal or greater skill than me are when I either land the ultra, or I scare them into backing off enough so that I have enough room to get away and do focus attack tricks. If Bison is walking at me doing s.fwd/s.rh pressure tricks and I know he’s not charging, I can use focus and get in whenever I want. So my advice is if you want to win that fight more, do a lot more low shorts. Your results will go way up.

Cammy

The cammys that I have played against use her fast walk speed to mix up between walk up throw, walk up c lk xx spiral arrow (punishable on block), s hp cannon spike (punishable on block), instant cannon drill into additional guessing game. On wakeup they like to completely confuse me w/ ambiguous cross up j lk or instant cannon drill into the afore mentioned mixups, regular spiral arrow if they think I’m going to reversal tele. I’ve found s hk and c lk to be my friends… c lk and mk can trade w/ spiral arrow if you attempt to interrupt, and depending on when she makes contact she may not be at neg frames on block, so watch out for that…that’s why I usually counter w/ c lk instead of c mk, it’s faster and still leads to scissors. I find crossing her up to be a no no, her cannon spike will shut down any jumpins unless they are safe jumpins. Also, FA charge on knockdown doesn’t seem safe since her cannon spike has so much horizontal movement. Most of the cammys I’ve played don’t do regular jumps, but if they do the hooligan roll you can j mp into ultra.

  • Cammy is unlikely to use her HP version of spiral arrow due to lack of safety. lp/mp version of spiral arrow only hits once, so if you anticipate it you can FADC -> punish
  • lk scissors beats spiral arrow with preemptive timing/spacing. You have to time it so that the first hit of scissors goes past her feet, and hits her upper body.
  • Spin knuckle is lol, you can c.lk xx Scissors on reaction
  • Hooligan combination is lol, if you stay crouched she can’t throw you. If you stick out a c.lk right as she’s about to land, you beat out her sweep AND followup throw. In other words, always c.lk when she does hooligan.

Notable Weaknesses- Doesn’t have great mix up options on offense and relies on a lot of pokes and throws. Range on Focus Attack isn’t good. Psycho Crusher has limited use.Relies heavily on bait tactics and feints to deal damage

Chun Li

Jumping at her can be a pain in the ass, as a lot of her “go to” normals beat Bison’s clean, air to air. Thankfully, jumping mk is very useful, and you can get a great deal of mileage out of it air to air and air to ground. If she knocks you down, it’s in your best interest to teleport the fuck out of there if she starts using RH command normal cross ups. If you can score a knockdown, press the advantage with meaty c.short and scissor kick pressure. Don’t worry about wake up EX Spinning Bird Kick too much, as you can safe jump it with jumping mk as well and beat it. Be careful if you reset her after hitting her with it, your reaction will determine who has advantage afterward, of course.

Her hyakuretsu kyaku/lightning legs can be extremely annoying if she throws them out in front of you during a close exchange, it swings things her way if you respond incorrectly and get hit. Your main concern upclose is not letting her get frame advantage, as this is a match that proves EX Psycho Crusher is far from bullet proof. If she gets aggressive and jumps at you without the obvious cross up, remember that her target combo hits twice, so you have to block both hits standing. Remember that crouching short into EX Legs is very well going to be her aim if you do block both hits. Teleport!

Some Chun’s like to space with her projectile then walk backward and sweep with RH, rinse/repeat. Walk her into the corner and remember jumping mk is yo’ bes’ friend. Your main concern is getting in and keeping momentum on your side. Her air throws can make using Devil’s Reverse/Headstomp a liability, I don’t use them much in this fight save for if I have a life lead and I’ve been pushed out some how. Be careful if she has Ultra, because using Devil Reverse’s follow up means she can potentially Ultra you as you land if you’re careless.

Ground game favors chun imo, her s.strong rapes bison: +2 on BLOCK, with more reach than bison s.fwd. don’t understand how cross j.mk beats EX spinning bird, i lose to it enough that i jump very sparingly against competent chuns. also bc of bison’s abysmal AA game, the j.fp pseudo mixup (between a second high punch, or no high punch and grounded low) becomes a rather legit mixup since he can’t really make chun pay very badly for trying that shit.

M.Bison out-pressures Chun on the ground. He’s got very good block strings. Additionally, his J.LK cross-up is sort of immune to EX SBK. But Chun has tools too - she can sweep him out of the opening frames of Scissors Kick. She can also punish whiffed Devil Reverse with dash ultra, same as against Vega. Bison’s AA options aren’t that great, so you can jump against him sometimes - J.FP on wakeup is a good thing to go for. Avoid throwing out large pokes (sweep, S.RH) as Bison has several ways to deal with them.

Crimson Viper

Her flame kick is not really all that ambiguous. You can low block and punish freely. Of course, she has to score a knockdown in order to get those flame kick crossups going, but that all starts WITH a flame kick knockdown for the most part. Bison can stuff her out of all of her specials since she has pretty bad startup frames and she can’t deal with jump ins at all. She has no real AA for that outside of QCB+fierce Thunder Knuckle. Even then, you trade. And of course, if you can predict her ground pound, you can get a free EX stomp out of that.

Bison can really win this battle on the ground because his pokes are a lot better than Viper’s. S.rh pretty much nulls flame kick a good amount of the time you stick it out. Her fierce thunder knuckle is good on wakeup, but you can safe jump it with j.fierce.

*-Seismo feints can help bait out whiffs or blocks for punishable c.FPxxFTK Cancelxxc.FP combos. Jumping at Dictator is pretty much undesirable as he can beat you air-to-air or anti-air you with s.RH or EX Scissors. Mix up games on wake up are dangerous as EX Scissors can take you out of the air while a mistake can get you Ultra’d. (Killey)

-Air-to-Air Dictator wins against C.Viper unless you straight jump RH but anything else will get stuffed and whats worse is that you could eat a double j.mp into Ultra. (Killey)

-fpTK trades with Scissors but timed early enough you will beat it cleanly. (Killey)*

Dan

Dan’s ultra can be focus attack. Absorb the ultra, let go, and punish with your own ultra.

Pressure Dan on his wakeup always. His shoryuken is horrible, so stay about half a bison apart, so it whiffs and then hard kick him on his wakeup.

Feel free to build meter in this round. He can’t punish you with his fireball. Don’t use headstomp to punish his fireballs however because it is unlikely a Dan is using fireballs to zone from full screen. It’s more to build meter. He will be looking for a punish.

Dhalsim

You have to play the match patiently and not rush in, wait for the right opportunity to strike and then go for it. Don’t blindly jump over fireballs because a lot of Dhalsims want you to do that and then they hit you out of the air with their jumping MP. Just block or focus it, or if you’re feeling saucy EX scissors through it if you think thy’re going to throw something else out.

A Dhalsim doing a lot of jump back HP’s is particularly annoying since you can’t dash in fast enough and it’s hard to anti-air it with s. HK. You can maybe punish with EX Psycho Crusher, but it’s probably wiser to just let the jump go, let them corner themselves. Or of course focus through the j. HP, but because Bison leans back this can make it a little difficult.

s. MK is a really good poke vs. Dhalsim. It beats some of his limbs clean, including s. HP if timed right. You don’t want to overuse it because if you do it too much Dhalsim will look for you to do it and THEN poke you, but it’s good to throw out there when you’re half-screen or farther and not sure what Dhalsim’s going to do next.

A lot of people like using Bison’s s. HK whenever Dhalsim does midair teleport behind you. Which is fine and all, but like you said it trades sometimes and pushes Dhalsim out. Personally I recommend using s. MP whenever Dhalsim teleports behind you, it is surprisingly good in this situation. It comes out hella fast, and has a weird hitbox that extends pretty high up even though it looks Bison is doing a gut punch. Meaning that if Dhalsim does the teleport from head-level or so, you’ll still hit him clean. It recovers quickly too so you can walk forward and keep the pressure on with c. LP or c. LK’s, or go for a throw. I try to just hit MP on reaction whenever I see him teleport, even if he tries to fake you out with a teleport away from you, he won’t be able to hit your far s. MP.

Bison has a ton of options for escaping Dhalsim’s Ultra setups. EX Devil’s Reverse is usually the best bet if it’s right on top of you, but be careful with the followup since Dhalsim can slide under it. You want to get away but you don’t want to steer yourself right back into the Ultra! Teleports work too depending on where you’re at on the screen, but the recovery time can make it punishable by something else if that’s what Dhalsim’s expecting.

You can’t hit Dhalsim with s.Fierce after a crumple, he falls too fast.


#2

E. Honda

  • LP headbutt and Ex headbutt cannot be punished on block

  • MP headbutt is punishable by LK scissors(reversal) and MK
    super(reversal). LK super works too but only hits three times for less
    damage than the MK super.

  • HP headbutt is punishable by LK scissors(1 hit), MK scissors(2 hits),
    HK scissors(2 hits, reversal) and MK/HK super. The HK scissors does more damage but it must be a reversal so if mistimed, you will get punished

  • Honda super is punishable by crouch MK into combo

  • Honda ultra is punishable by ultra and crouch MK into combo

El Fuerte

Fuerte is a really trick matchup because of the simple fact that Bison has to jump in with something sticking out or jump back with something sticking out. Usually I’ll jump back with j.strong or jump back rh.

Sometimes you don’t want to take the fight to the air because Fuerte can just throw out his air grab special or just regular air throw. The only thing you really want to fear is his EX run back because he’ll usually go into his ground grab or start splashing. Slides are pretty good to get away from those run splash/grab special attempts. EX Psycho Crusher also helps to go after him if you manage to bait that out.

If you can read his run slide, it’s free focus attack for a fat combo. His j.fierce also crosses up, so you have to watch out for that and his pokes are really good on the ground, so don’t be shocked when you get stuffed out of throwing out a c.short or s.rh.

However, if you can bait his AA grab special, you can just swat him out with s.rh. If he tries for crossup splash and lands in front of you(some Fuertes won’t always go for the crossup splash just to fuck with your block patterns), you can get a free scissors punish.

If Fuerte wants to wall jump into j.fierce, you can pre-emtively stick out a s.strong and he’ll land right in it.

It’s a really weird matchup to fight because Fuerte is all over the screen and you have to play a mean footsie game to even win. Always remember to teleport on wakeup as well because Fuerte feeds off the knockdown.

If Fuerte misses a body splash, the usual Bison reaction to seeing a whiffed move is to hit s. HK… but this will whiff Fuerte because he’s on the ground. Instead use something like s. MK or c. MP. If your reflexes are really on then you can maybe nail him with a slide depending on his proximity to you.

Fei Long

Feilong doesn’t have reliable ways to combo into his ultra, so your choice of going defensive or offensive in this matchup is purely preference.

Use meaty standing hard kick if you feel a Feilong might try his rekkas.

Ex headstomp will beat Feilong’s anti-air special (flame kick) on his wakeup. Mixing this up with throw and meaty crouching light kick will give you plenty of pressure.

Meter isn’t incredibly important in this matchup, so you can a few more tricks like fake ex devils reverse and throw or crossup ex psycho crusher (use ex in case you mess up the timing on his wakeup, so you are far away).

Bison. tough fight. dictator has few options and is typically pretty far back, even so his options are devastating. this dudes gunna be stomping and scissor kicking you all day so keep in mind while his attacks hurt they are telegraphed and if you watch for them you should be able to get to block in time. when he stomps you (ex or normal) you can walk back, as soon as the stomp starts up then flamekick him as he lands, but an option i found easier and have grown fond of is to dash forward and fp>flamekick him from behind when he lands. this nullifies one of his best damage options. scissor kicks look like they can be jab>rekka’d but i have yet to do so, but it seems a good strategy is to flamekick after to catch pokes which may be coming. after that it comes down to a poking match in which you should try not to jump around to much cus you cant do much about his stomp in the air. a good bison wont use cr.hk slide much but if he does fp>punish his ass. super can be hp rekka’d with some timing, and ultra can be fp>punished.

Gen

I find that my success against a properly played Gen is mostly at mid screen about a character distance away, in which I try to tag his limbs with standing short xx scissors, upon scoring knockdown, try my best to use meaty crouching short/forward to pressure him. The problem is that once he gets EX Meter, he can wall jump kick mix up to escape/go back on the offensive. Safe jumping can work if he likes to Genkirou or whatever that DP kick of his is called, but knockdown pretty much makes Bison’s life miserable in this match. God help you if he just buffers stand forward into hands, because you just get to sit and watch him smack you around from then on.

Gouken

Bear in mind, that you have to tech his back throw about a frame or two late. You can’t tech it immediately on the startup, so there’s kind of a slight delay in teching that throw.

Guile

-I’ve always found the best way to beat Guile is crossup J. Forward into string into scissors/ throw, rinse repeat. Max range Devil’s Reverse sometimes gets beaten but the benfit of counterattack + knockdown is worth risking in my opinion. Fact is, outside of universal techniques, Guile cannot deal with jump in cross ups. His C. Fierce trades most of the time and flash kick gets outright beaten.

You can act in between the hits of the sweep. If you have meter you can EX him. Without meter you can focus the second hit smack him and dash back for safety.

-I do feel that baiting him with DR is a good way to throw him off his game. Although airthrow can completely break you, as I have experienced from playing a top 10 ranked Guile on Gamebattles. Hence forcing you to play more of a turtle style and avoid taking chances, punishing mainly with EX scissors. I tend to also cross up with MK aka knee when I do feel bold, not only that it does have priority over flash kick if timed correctly. Also I tend to get aggressive Guiles with ultra when they attempt to cross me with LK cross, even if they get in deep. Hope this helps.

Technically speaking a guile who is on his toes will completely shut down your non crossup air game: c hp beats both dr and headstomp, j throw beats them too. His j hk has weird priority that I have been unable to beat w/ s hk, so usually I just block, and his ground game is strong too as long as he doesn’t c hk. So basically you are limited to a ground game in the vs guile match, and that’s why it’s hard.

-Ok here’s how I play it out, , I still use Devil reverse but you hit the extend early so not to be air grabbed, if they go for the air grab and wiff you have just got yourself next to Guile. Be weary though as Guile can do a well timed jab/EX SB your Devil reverse extend so that it is damn hard to avoid whilst keeping safe. You can also FADC the SB’s or jump SB’s only at ranges where I know he can’t tag me with a normal (cr.HP st.MK backhand etc).

I then begin to walk but be on the look out for his cr.MK and I sometimes bait a SB riskily jumping when i think he will throw it then j.HP is out too much to be cr.HP’d. That’s a bit too risky, better is when close up block the SB and it now depends on what kind of Guile player they are, at this range they may like to follow the SB for a step kick or a throw attemp. You can EX Psycho through any follow up if you see it or cr.LK into combo if they try a throw attempt. Blocking the SB at close range can give you some nice footsie moments due to Guiles long charge time, tick walk, tick walk (st.LK, st.MK and cr.LK are good in this situation) to move in and go for throws.

Once in you have to stay on top at all times, leave gaps in block strings like st.LK walk a tiny bit st.LK again and look to bait the flash kick. Good Guiles are weary of throwing out flash kicks which is where you get your throw attempts. Make it look like your going in for a throw and immediately do cr.LK x3_4 xx scissors this will beat their throw escape.

When doing st.LK walk it’s always good to go for a cr.LK (3 frames) afterwards because if guile tries to cr.LP (4 frames) you will beat it out for a cr.LKx3_4 xx scissors combo especially due to the frame advantage of st.LK. This is where he gets nervous and throws out flashkicks and throw attempts so just be on your guard.

After landing a throw (always throw into corners as it limits his spacing and lets you stay on top) dash once and decide wether you are going to go for a crossup j.MK be weary if he has meter and i wouldn’t advise it if he has Ultra stocked, however if he does and you throw him into a corner (whilst already in the corner) you can time a jump in j.HP so that it wiffs on purpose and you land and block baiting the Ultra, if no ultra then go for a throw attempt or cr.LK combo or cr.LK tick throw him back into the corner.

I think the meaty crossup j.MK is still very useful, because a reversal alternate direction flashkick is quite difficult however can be done, I don’t know if you can safe jump it as I don’t know EX FK’s frames but after a back throw due to the longer time it takes for them to get up this will be your best time to do it.

After every kockdown dash in so your above them on wake up, never do FA on wakeup as they will wake up flashkick you and it will hit even if you backdash out of the FA. Wiff a cr.LK on their wake up to try and bait the flashkick, if they get scared and block immediately throw.

Scissor mix ups, landing a blocked LK scissors is a godd way to keep on them, good Guiles know you can cr.LK xx scissors to beat pretty much all of their options so they are looking for it and are ready to flash kick, if they don’t want to risk it you can do another cr.LK xx scissors or slight walk then cr.LK and make the decision of doing it again or throwing.

Don’t forget they aren’t gonna play perfect and as long as you know what NOT to do you can always look out for mistakes, just stay on them for gods sake. Luckily hardly anyone picks Guile as a main at tournaments.

? Counter headstomp with airthrow or moving backwards will cause him to land in front of you
? s.hp stuffs scissor kick on startup and can punish a high blocked scissor kick (non ex, non lk)
? j.mp beats out many of Dictator’s aerial moves
? FA the follow up after a block headstomp for free combo (b. hk -> c.mp …)
? s.lp can stuff his scissor kick if timed right

Ken

Ken’s kara throw mixups are powerful against most characters, but if you ever feel too pressured, simply spam teleport to get out of it.

If you get hit by Ken’s ex tornado kick, it’s usually best to use ex psycho crusher to get out of his mixup (he can throw, shoryuken, or use a normal move to continue pressure). Ex psycho crusher beats two of those options, but once he starts wising up and using shoryuken, simply block.

Most of the Ryu strategies apply to Ken. Get him into the corner and use superior footsies.

M. Bison (Dictator)

You can EX headstomp as they go into the air and yours will win out cleanly. It’s tricky timing, but when you nail it, it’s good reward.

It’s pretty much a footsie oriented mirror match. It only gets wild if either Bison is bad at handling crossup attempts. Until then, it’s all about who can hit s.forward and s.rh the fastest. So usually after a blocked LK scissors, you go for s.forward to stuff the other Bison’s scissors attempt(or s.rh if you’ve got them in the corner).

Max range c.forward is really good in this mirror as well because it’ll stuff anything the other Bison player wants to do. You can also duck a s.rh and counter with s.rh immediately.


#3

Rose

Against Rose, space correctly and jump accordingly to punish her fireballs with hard punch, hard kick, and medium kick.

Once Rose has meter, be very careful about jumping in on her.

Rose lacks reliable wakeup options. For the most part, abuse crouching light kick and combo it into scissor kick or use it as a tick throw.
Work on putting Rose into the corner. When you have her there, abuse standing hard kick and standing medium kick.

Rufus

s.forward pressure keeps Rufus at bay. s.roundhouse any of his jump attempts and don’t let him in. It’s really hard to keep him out, but it’s doable.

Just FYI, if you have Rufus cornered, LK scissors loop is REALLY good against him.

  • you have to use c.LK more often. Rufus’ fastest attack comes out in 4 frames (c.LP) but ,Bison’s c.LK comes out in 3. If you time it well, Rufus has no answers against your c.LK xx LK Scissors Loop, ASIDE from:

a) neutral jump (which can be avoided if you only follow up with scissors after the c.LK hit confirm)
b) EX Messiah Kick

  • random SA to catch those dive kicks

  • use s.HK to PREVENT his dive kicks, not beat it (in other words, do it psychically and make rufus fear it)

  • neutral jump now and then. If he dive kicks under you, do neutral j.HK, bnb to punish.

  • headstomp is not too useful in this matchup since rufus will be looking for ways to land his EX Snake Strike. Only use it if rufus is cornered

  • reversal EX DR to escape in this matchup is better than reversal teleport if you have space behind you since Rufus has no ways of chasing you to punish.

  • s.short with Bison beats out dive kicks if you see them coming

  • remember that you can block his dive kick low, so you only have to worry about blocking which side, and not which side + up/low. He has an overhead kick, but I’d rather eat that than a dive kick combo to ultra

  • if you’re pressured by dive kicks, EX Scissors can be a better escape option if you are pretty sure that he will follow up with another dive kick. Invincibility frames on EX Scissors are earlier than EX PC (i.e. easier for Rufus to jab you out of EX PC than EX Scissors) The trade off though is that EX Scissors isn’t safe compared to EX PC, but that’s if you manage to get it out.

-Once Rufus has meter, I try to zone him out with s.forward and s.rh

Cr.MP beats out Headstomp and Devils reverse. EX SS is good here too.
Tornado beats out scissor kicks.
J.rh beats head stomp and devils reversal, just time it right.

Ryu

The most important part about this matchup is figuring out what kind of Ryu you’re facing. If the Ryu player uses a lot of shoryukens on his wakeup, back dash and hard kick him. If you do this enough times, then you lead the player into thinking shoryuken is never safe. This is when you can do a 180 and go for tick throws or further pressure with scissor kick.

Utilize ex scissor kick and know its max range to punish Ryu’s fireball. Knockdowns are important.

Devil reverse and headstomp are good tools at first, but as Ryus (and other players) get more advanced, this becomes less and less effective. Try not to use them much because the mixup lacks consistency.

Utilize standing medium kick pressure to prevent Ryu from throwing fireballs and do your best to get Ryu into the corner where your footsies dominate over Ryu.

Sagat

Normals:
Sagat is a large character, as is Dictator. This means that every attack
each of these characters posess have some impact on the round. Both have the
best standing Roundhouse kicks in the game…
problem: Sagat’s Standing roundhouse does more damage (40.110), is a frame
on startup faster and does 2 hits (cannot be saved as easily). I’m no expert
on range but it appears that Sagat’s Roundhouse arcs higher and may have
slightly more range, I’m not sure.

Standing forward however is still just as good to use on Sagat as if he were
a shoto. It’ll get beaten by psychic dragon, but other than that there isn’t
a move with enough range or little enough startup.
More good news, Dictator’s crouching short is much better than Sagat’s. By
at least 2 frames startup difference, don’t be threatened by the 6 frame hit
advantage Sagat’s has, he’ll lose out if you execute at the same time. Sagat’s C. Jab hasn’t enough range to disrupt your game either - it can’t physically link into anything useful (can cancel to Tiger uppercut though).

Some general tips:

Sagat’s damage output is almost unfair in comparrison to Dictator’s. It means we have to block and evade very often and capitalize on Sagat’s size and speed disadvantages, this is how to do so!

Crossups:
Sagat is very easy to crossup, I mean I never fail to crossup Sagat with J. forward. J. Roundhouse is a different case but it is worth training yourself to do so against your opponent for that extra damage and stun.

Anti-air:
Sagat is large and slower character, this allows you to anti-air easier than you would some other characters. According to the frames, Sagat’s jumping in normals have 7 frame startup. This is equivalent to Dictator’s J. Roundhouse. So air to air, Dictator is statistically unbeaten based on pure speed and damage potential (Ultra anyone?) Anti air attacks like Dictator’s Head Stomp and S. Roundhouse serve well against Sagat’s size and sluggish attacks. I find S. Roundhouse tends to trade with J. Roundhouse but beats out every other kick. EX Headstomp is still a tool to be reckoned with and is almost completely safe on block.

Ground game:
Long range is for chickens. Mid range is for boys and close range is for real men. So many people get intimidated by Sagat up close… why? I’m more frightened when he’s on the other side of the screen, throwing infinite tiger shots which do unfair damage. You need to get in there! Focus dash through those tiger shots, leap over his uppercuts and teleport like a big fat coward when you need to run out the clock or bait stupidity. Up close you have the advantage with superior C. Short and C. Forward, when Dictator has momentum frome crossup he can be hard to stop - even block string thows get the job done, and you never have to worry about Short Scissor kick whiffing.

I personally like closing the mid range with C. Roundhouse. I think I’ve got it to the point where I can tell it’s generally safe for me to do, I wouldn’t suggest players take the same approach though, Devil’s reverse/ Headstomp are still the best gap closing techniques for this matchup, but a little mixup never hurt anyone (fallacy I know). Just jumping in is also good, I don’t know, it feels as though Dictator was built to fly and jump.

Psycho Warp (teleporting) is very useful against very good Sagat players. If you can master telporting the perfect way in different situations your defensive game is almost untouchable. To be able to teleport out of wakeup crossups, through fireballs and away from throws is a tool worth having. consider this scenario which has occured to me on some occasions:

A strong Sagat player is controlling the long range ground game with Tiger Shot, now I’ve blocked, jumped over and focus dashed through many and out of no where I teleport in to my opponent’s arms after his High Tiger comes out but not before he fully recovers. Perfect premptive teleporting has put me in a great offensive position! Every universal throw in the game is 3 frames to startup, I grasp Sagat and throw him towards the nearest corner, and now a whole new situation arises. Sagat is now on wakeup and furthermore cannot quickstand (due to being thrown), this means I can time a perfect stomp for guaranteed chip damage or jump in for meaty crossup! Throw situations against every character are all the same, you should always followup your throws! Another thing for those who find themselves lying on the ground alot, Dictator on wakeup is deadlier than any other character! Every EX and teleport has invincibility. Might I add, it’s never necessary to quickstand every time either, if you can run out the clock then do so.

Dictator, character who likes to be in control and therefor command the pace at which the fight goes. It’s 100% true as well, If you met a Grand Master Dictator you’d notice that they use anything and everything to their advantage - to push combat into the tempo they prefer. Dictator can evade so well, that he can frustrate anybody and run the round clock down better than nearly everyone else barring Akuma.

Overall the way to approach Sagat I think is obviously the same as nearly every other fight, with great patience and evasion. Your best tools versus Sagat are Short and EX Scissors kick, Jumping crossup, Crouching Short, any attack air to air and of course wise teleporting. Headstomp and Devil’s Reverse are always both useful, but risky against a good Sagat player. Chipping with Devil’s within a deathblow (cannot use saving attack) is the awesome.

Sakura

Sakura does not have a reliable anti-air. Feel free to cross her up on her wakeup.

Do not back dash on Sakura’s wakeup. Her shoryuken travels horizontally, so it will catch you. Instead neutral jump roundhouse as a bait instead.

Sakura’s crouching hard punch is a good anti-air. Use jumping hard punch (spaced correctly) to beat it.

Sakura’s fireball is rather slow, so if you use ex scissor kick as a punish, be sure to be close, otherwise you will get hit by the fireball, or worse, you will go through the fireball at an incorrect distance and Sakura will block it.

Seth

  • obviously, what is important in this match up is getting your damage once you get in, so you do not have to deal with the j.HP spam all over again. Be patient as you would be against Dhalsim. It may take some time to get in, but remember how quickly you can damage him and how quickly he gets stunned. Dictator can stun him in two combos effortlessly.

  • if you are in his face and he tries to wall jump, j.MP will catch him.

  • do not jump on Seth when he is in the corner and you are 4-5 characters away. The Seth player will be on the other side of the screen by the time you land

  • doing the Skull Diver after the Headstomp gives Seth a free Ultra/Super Combo regardless where you land on the screen except behind him. If you do land behind him, that is a free SPD for Seth most of the time.

  • blocking his st.HP/Ultra Combo up close gives Dictator free HK Scissor Kicks. If you ever block Seth’s Super Combo, you can do whatever you like. Jump in with HK/HP and do a combo.

  • I think (but I am not sure) if he uses the teleport to escape your cross ups, slide is free. You do not have to worry where he lands since the slide will catch him to either side (since it is has a “d” input).

  • if he ever teleports randomly next to you, you can just mash cr.LP/cr.LK. It will beat no matter what he does.

Vega (Claw)

short scissors kick is bread and butter here, spam jump in + 3x.lp + scissor kick combo shenanigans, push him into a corner and just rape him.

Vega has no reliable anti air and if you spam jump in your long legs will stuff pretty much anything he can possibly do - if he flips out just walk forward and throw him.
Slide beats Vegas back flips. You dont even need to time it properly. As soon as he back flips, do a slide and you will hit\

*M.Bison is a monster on the ground. His short scissor kick is like, un-fuck-wit-able. Not only will it stuff all your normals, but you can’t punish the recovery. So, basically, there are two ways of getting in on Bison:

  • Jump ins. Bison doesn’t really have a practical response to jump ins (and by practical, I mean moves outside of his ultra and telepathic EX stomps.
  • Learn to break his charge. If Bison isn’t charging, he isn’t scissor kicking you. Your normals will usually out prioritize Bison’s, but only if they aren’t getting punished by his scissor kick.

Wall diving is iffy for me right now. I’ve had success with it before, but only because I don’t think most Bison players realize that he can teleport to avoid attacks, and he may even be able to punish after the teleport.

This is actually a horrible matchup; second only to Blanka.

Update

According to Arlieth, you might be able to punish the lk. scissor kick on it’s recovery with a well timed kara throw. The deepth in which the scissor kick can be before it isn’t punishable has yet to be determined. Stay tuned for more updates.*

Zangief

What you really want to do in this matchup against Gief is stay out of lariat range. You want to be at max range s.rh distance so you can get the first punish on the lariat’s rotation. You’re able to punish after the first spin immediately. You can sneak in a scissors FADC throw, but you’ll probably land that once and still risky because you’re losing meter for this and you want your meter just in case you have to EX devil reverse out of meaty situations or EX psycho crusher out of the corner.

If Gief knocks you down, his best bet against Bison is to cross him up since he’s weak to crossups. Now, this is where it gets tricky: if it’s a full on crossup(Gief hits the other side) then you can teleport away from it. The teleport(backwards DP + kicks) will auto-correct and go the opposite direction and put you back at good distance.

Devil reverse is your friend in this matchup depending on how reckless the Gief player is with lariats. If he wants to spam them, you can start throwing those out and killing his lariat game free. EX headstomp is only really good version tick 360/720 setups. I wouldn’t advise wasting it against his lariat. Just not worth it unless it’s meaty lariat or crossup splash c.short(or s.strong) lariat or tick into SPD. That’s the only time you can go for EX headstomp.

His j.fierce(not splash) actually cannot be stuffed by s.rh. So your best bet is to just focus backdash or just backwards teleport. I wouldn’t gamble a EX headstomp against it since his jump arc seems pretty low with that j.fierce out.

Blocked EX greenhand equates to either throw punish or c.forward scissors. HOWEVER, most Giefs this day will burn two stocks to FADC back from the blocked EX greenhand because they already know that they’re gonna get punished for some decent damage(let’s be real, not even Sagat hits hard against Gief), so you have to keep an eye out for that as well.

S.short is a pretty shitty poke against lariat and don’t trust it. Just s.forward and s.rh him to death at the right ranges and you should be good to go. Any good Gief will not give you much to work with and will force a footsie game(basically you vs Gief s.strong). I remember Sanchez saying something about s.fierce being the new s.rh against Gief. That may or may not be true, but I’ve gotten some fairly good clean results with s.fierce vs lariat.

The only way Bison will end up in the corner is from teleporting too much backwards. And even then, you probably will have enough meter to escape out of the corner with EX psycho crusher. The only thing stopping it is Gief j.forward, but most Giefs will worry about EX headstomp against that, so they won’t throw it out much.

From what I saw in some JP match vids is that if you’re deep inside the lariat, you can c.short xx scissors your way out in between the rotation. It’s kind of strict timing, but it works and it’s worth it to get Gief off you.

But yeah, moral of the story is against Gief: neutral jumping sucks unless you bait Ultra, s.short sucks against lariat, and your two best friends are s.forward and s.rh. Also, remember that Gief players do not tech throws due to the fact that if you’re near them, they’re ready to SPD you. So don’t be afraid to FA dash throw or go for lvl2 FA at max range and get the +4 for throw setup. Only thing you have to worry about in that situation is if he has meter, you WILL eat that EX greenhand on either the FA itself or against your dash.

I honestly think this matchup is pretty even and it will go either way, but if you’re smart with Bison and use your tools sparingly and keep him off his guard(and spam the shit out of s.rh), then it shouldn’t be too hard to keep him out.

*- With headstomps, mixup between:
—)jump->up+HP Headbutt
—)backdash
—)crouch lariat (trade) xx EX hand
—)focus.
NOTE: This is only for normal headstomps. EX headstomps, just block.

  • On wakeup, watch out for EX stomp or teleport. HP Splash on wakeup makes stomp whiff, Lariat beats teleport.
  • With Devil’s reverse, focus and punish.
  • If he’s Devil’s reversing toward the corner, just walk forward, he’s doing your work for you.
  • Start up of Lariat beats all versions of Scissor Kick
  • Lariat beats all versions of Psycho Crusher clean*

#4

thread like this is long overdue, thanks for doing this :tup:


#5

Just throw Rog out of his rushes. Problem solved. Focus Dash feint forward throw works also. You can FA his s.rh and get a free throw from the dash in. S.forward and s.rh are your friends in this matchup. Also, c.strong beats all rushes clean. Also, DO NOT EX headstomp in this match at all. Seriously, save your meter for EX psycho crusher. You’ll need it. Same goes for EX scissors against a rush punch.

Being aggressive against Rog gets you killed easily because c.jab > Bison. His wakeup game sucks, so you can just walk up to him and do nothing. The Rog player will EVENTUALLY get desperate and shoot a headbutt and you get free whatever punish. Focus Attack dash straight, low rush, and upper for free s.fierce xx scissors combo. If he wants to ex his way in(which is stupid, but whatever), just have an EX psycho crusher at the ready.


#6

Thanks DS, this has been added to the top post.


#7

Abel has cr. fierce. It’s like everybody forgot it exists. It’s such a good anti air. Imo aggressively zone abel into the corner and then just watch out for ex tt and ex roll. Kinda bait them you kno?

Against balrog, max distance slide is really good. You can slide all of his rush punches. If he turns yellow just throw or ex psycho. If he turn punches then free scissors. Try to make him whiff max distance rush punch so you can punish with fly swatter kick. However, it requires that you have good distancing/footsies. On his wakeup neutral jump roundhouse is great cuz he can’t do shit. If he headbutts, then he’ll just go under you and you get a free throw or fly swatter kick. If the balrog is scrubby then just focus his rush punches for crumple rape.

Cr. jab beats blanka for free.

In a bison mirror, its who can punish what. If they try to max distance scissors, absorb at max distance so you only get one hit and then focus crumple into rape. If they’re doing the same thing, then go max distance say for a forward scissors but do roundhouse scissors. Do dirty shit like that. If you’re in roundhouse distance don’t scissors. Same goes for the other player since fly swatter kick stuffs scissors. Max distance slide works in this matchup pretty good. Once you get the guy to the corner its about baiting his escape options because bison is so gay with his ex everything.

Against viper just stay on her ass the entire time. Walk up jab stuffs ALOT of her shit. It’ll stuff flame kick, tk, and seismo. Look for the ex seismo because that can lead to death if not careful. Just rush that bitch down. Oh yeah, ex seismo has 2 frames of invincibility so its like a cvs2 sidestep. Just be careful when tick throwing when she has meter.

Vs guile… just rush him down. He sucks :rofl: But seriously, get into distance where you can fly swatter kick his sonic boom. Trades are generally in your favor against guile because he doesn’t do alot of damage quickly unless you suck at blocking. Please please please don’t jump in at him unless its a cross up. Just neutral jump the sonic boom if you’re think hes gonna go for an air throw and punish.

Generally vs akuma I think the best thing to do is to rush at him since he has low health. Some very specific situations that I think will help is that after you block his roundhouse, do a jab. It’ll either trade with his jab or stuff it. If you have him in the corner and you think he’s gonna teleport, then stand like right where he would teleport and fly swatter kick or throw him if he does teleport. If he demon flips, neutral jump roundhouse that shit.

Gief: standing short, standing roundhouse, neutral jumping, and slide beat lariat. If you block or get hit by green hand then free throw. If you block an ex green hand its still a free throw. Head stomp works pretty well. Devil reverse is free meter. Neutral jump on his wakeup is so good. Oh yeah don’t be afraid to just dash/walk up throw him. Imo it feels like whoever gets into the corner first dies.

A general tip I think people should take into consideration is that yall niggas need to learn how to block and not mash out an ex move when you’re in the corner.


#8

akuma can punish ex crusher

im not sure about max range ex crusher but do any other variation and youll eat a demon for your troubles

neutral jump roundhouse against balrog is not that great. if you mess up youll eat an ex headbutt. also it is just as vulnerable to wake up ex rush as meaty cr.lk. youre better off doing meaty cr.lk which sets up for more effective mixups. thats not to say neutral j.hk is completely useless but youre better off using it sparingly

i dont think its effective to spam knee press outside of the lk version in a bison mirror unless you know he spams focuses from a certain distance. if the other bison player is decent he will focus or ex crusher you on reaction. this match up is even more about smart zoning and poking than usual bc bison is weak to everything he does himself, ie, cross ups, tick throws and j.mp. id say the more aggressive bison wins this mirror but that depends on how well know they the post lk knee press situations.

you dont need to stand where akuma is going to be after a teleport to punish it. that makes it obvious that youre expecting a teleport and gives him more space to get out of the corner doing something else. if you stand like a character distance away, you can still harass him with your usual battery of pokes and knee presses and have enough time to react to a teleport so you can punish it. im pretty sure bison can punish any teleport akuma does on wake up with slide anyway. gotta test it myself

this will get you killed against a good gief. head stomp will get beaten by a dash back then 360/720 or a late lariat. late lariat also beats neutral jump. you do not want to get floored against gief

ill try to add some more stuff later but im too busy being lazy


#9

K, I’m gonna post up my Gief matchup stuff because I feel that there’s some misinformation already being posted in this thread courtesy of ilikemacaroni707.

What you really want to do in this matchup against Gief is stay out of lariat range. You want to be at max range s.rh distance so you can get the first punish on the lariat’s rotation. You’re able to punish after the first spin immediately. You can sneak in a scissors FADC throw, but you’ll probably land that once and still risky because you’re losing meter for this and you want your meter just in case you have to EX devil reverse out of meaty situations or EX psycho crusher out of the corner.

If Gief knocks you down, his best bet against Bison is to cross him up since he’s weak to crossups. Now, this is where it gets tricky: if it’s a full on crossup(Gief hits the other side) then you can teleport away from it. The teleport(backwards DP + kicks) will auto-correct and go the opposite direction and put you back at good distance.

Devil reverse is your friend in this matchup depending on how reckless the Gief player is with lariats. If he wants to spam them, you can start throwing those out and killing his lariat game free. EX headstomp is only really good version tick 360/720 setups. I wouldn’t advise wasting it against his lariat. Just not worth it unless it’s meaty lariat or crossup splash c.short(or s.strong) lariat or tick into SPD. That’s the only time you can go for EX headstomp.

His j.fierce(not splash) actually cannot be stuffed by s.rh. So your best bet is to just focus backdash or just backwards teleport. I wouldn’t gamble a EX headstomp against it since his jump arc seems pretty low with that j.fierce out.

Blocked EX greenhand equates to either throw punish or c.forward scissors. HOWEVER, most Giefs this day will burn two stocks to FADC back from the blocked EX greenhand because they already know that they’re gonna get punished for some decent damage(let’s be real, not even Sagat hits hard against Gief), so you have to keep an eye out for that as well.

S.short is a pretty shitty poke against lariat and don’t trust it. Just s.forward and s.rh him to death at the right ranges and you should be good to go. Any good Gief will not give you much to work with and will force a footsie game(basically you vs Gief s.strong). I remember Sanchez saying something about s.fierce being the new s.rh against Gief. That may or may not be true, but I’ve gotten some fairly good clean results with s.fierce vs lariat.

The only way Bison will end up in the corner is from teleporting too much backwards. And even then, you probably will have enough meter to escape out of the corner with EX psycho crusher. The only thing stopping it is Gief j.forward, but most Giefs will worry about EX headstomp against that, so they won’t throw it out much.

From what I saw in some JP match vids is that if you’re deep inside the lariat, you can c.short xx scissors your way out in between the rotation. It’s kind of strict timing, but it works and it’s worth it to get Gief off you.

But yeah, moral of the story is against Gief: neutral jumping sucks unless you bait Ultra, s.short sucks against lariat, and your two best friends are s.forward and s.rh. Also, remember that Gief players do not tech throws due to the fact that if you’re near them, they’re ready to SPD you. So don’t be afraid to FA dash throw or go for lvl2 FA at max range and get the +4 for throw setup. Only thing you have to worry about in that situation is if he has meter, you WILL eat that EX greenhand on either the FA itself or against your dash.

I honestly think this matchup is pretty even and it will go either way, but if you’re smart with Bison and use your tools sparingly and keep him off his guard(and spam the shit out of s.rh), then it shouldn’t be too hard to keep him out.


#10

I fully agree with everything except this bit. How do you not get nailed by EX greenhand or c.mp? Yea it beats lariat 100%, but DR can been seen from a mile away, and how often does gief throw out lariat for no reason so you can punish? :confused:

also I want to add a bit about spamming s.hk and s.mk. It’s been mentioned multiple times in other threads, they’re good against gief, but be very careful with spamming these two moves, as your legs can get grabbed by any SPD or ultra


#11

Considering punch lariats frames, you can throw out a devil reverse against it. The key is to not get reckless with devil reverse, obviously. Lariat is the only way Gief builds meter if he sits at the other side of the screen, so you throw out a devil reverse to keep him from building that meter every now and then.

At max range, SPD won’t grab you out of it. You’re obviously not gonna be hella close to Gief when you throw these out.


#12

With Ryu, Ken and Akuma, if they do lots of pokes/“block strings”, in particular a blocked mid/max range c.mk -> Hadoken, you can EX SK/PC, super, or ultra before you block the hadoken.

Same goes for max range c.lk, s.lk, Tiger Knee with Sagat. You and EX SK/PX, super or ultra.

Reason I have block strings in quotations is cause some of them aren’t true block strings and leave you with a small window to punish.

I’m trying to compile a list of these and put 'em into a video. So far I only know those four’s “block strings”.


#13

Against Abel’s rolls, I find that a well timed s.HK is quite effective in place of a throw attempt.

As for Akuma, you can slide under his aerial fireballs (depending on the angle he throws them at). You can also Psycho Crusher or EX Psycho Crusher and it will hit him before he touches the ground, provided you didn’t get nailed in the back or feet by the fireball.

I find that it’s easiest for me to land the j.mp x2 -> Ultra on Gen, simply because most Gens I play enjoy utilizing that quick jump.


#14

Great info :slight_smile:
Thank you!


#15

I’d like to add that s.short with Bison beats out dive kicks if you see them coming.


#16

The akuma matchup in the first post talks about beating bison with akuma… it should be how to beat akuma with bison.


#17

i feel that against gouken throw tactics work best. tick throw, dash back dash forward throw, walk back dash forward throw, empty jump in throw. and straight up? throw him on wakeup too

The idea here isn’t to throw all day long, but if it works then go for it. The idea is to make the gouken THINK you have throwing in mind, which will make him forget about the counter, he’ll start doing retarded specials to get out of throws, which will leave him wide open. if he’s also thinking you’re going to throw him, you can finally crossover with j.mk or use s.mk and s.hk like you normally would without fear of getting countered

and if gouken gets savvy to the throws the worse that’ll happen if you’re careful is that you tech. techs are good, because he can’t throw into ultra. if you’re not careful the scrub gouken will ultra you, and that’ll hurt.

recommendation: use throw tactics right until he gets meter, then start crossing him up with j.mk (j.hk when he’s cornered or at that correct range).

DON’T jump at him when he’s not in close range. those angle’d fireballs are hell. aside from that his “shoryu” is so bad and the only “surprise” he has is his air tatsu, and if it whiffs then he’s fucked

my personal experience with gouken. i’ve only played 128 and beaten 94 of them with this stategy (about 70%+)


#18

The thing is though, you WILL eat a counter or two in that match. Sometimes they’ll get lucky and guess right. So you can’t really force Gouken into forgetting about that counter when that’s usually how he’s gonna get out of the corner if he has to deal with pressure.

The key to this match is to stay completely unpredictable and force the counter so you can get the free throw/Ultra punish. Also, if he wants to get very fireball happy when he’s cornered and you manage to be at midscreen range, you can FA dash Ultra through the next fireball. That just depends on how reckless the Gouken player gets with the fireballs to keep you out as much as possible.

Also, bear in mind, that you have to tech his back throw about a frame or two late. You can’t tech it immediately on the startup, so there’s kind of a slight delay in teching that throw. Really weird how Capcom worked that one into the game.


#19

Useful thread, thanks a bunch!


#20

great post - can we update the original post to add specific blocked moves by character where you can punish with an ultra? i feel like that kind of knowledge would really helpful, as i generally dont keep those situations in mind often enough.

e.g., seems like you can ultra off of blocked shoryukens, blocked cannon spikes, blocked fei long fire kicks, blocked guile sweeps (in between hits)/flash kicks, blocked zangief’s lariats. any other info like that would be great. thanks!