The Countering Tactics in UMVC3 Thread. YOU CAN POST NOW


#1

So, I decided to revive this thread because some people liked my idea of having a place where we can compile all the different counters to the tactics we see commonly used either in tournaments, streams, etc. This thread is based on DevilJin’s old thread “How to Deal with Derpy Stuff”. So here’s his explanation.

[ What this thread is not about ]
You will not discuss character specific match ups in the thread. So no “what can I do against Vergil if I am using Captain America” type of comments. This is based to counter strategies that can be applied to all characters. How to block Magneto, how to deal with Spiral Swords, TAC glitches, etc. You can use specific character as an example, but try to keep it general.

[ How it works ]
Well, every character is divided into his/her own spoiler tag. If somebody writes about how to deal with Doom’s footdive cancels, I’ll put in the Doom spoiler tag with the date it was posted. Obviously, I will not put everything in there, just what people find useful.

There’s also a “Misc.” category, which other things can be discussed like, how to deal with X Factor guard cancels, what characters can do the different TAC Glitches, how can I counter them etc. Just there in case I need it. It can also apply to more general stuff, like “how to block high/low mixups”. There’s also a mini dictionary that has common abbreviations used by people and what do they mean.

[ That’s not correct. How can I change it? I want to suggest a few things. ]
Message me, I check the forums almost daily.

MINI-DICTIONARY

Abbreviations

Spoiler

DHC: Delayed Hyper Combo
DT: Devil Trigger
GC: Guard Cancel
HMs: Hidden Missiles
MSS: Magneto-a/Storm-a/Sentinel-a
SW: Spiral Swords
TAC: Team Aerial Combo
THC: Team Hyper Combo
XF: X-Factor
XFC: X-Factor Cancel
ZDV: Zero-a/Dante-a/Vergil-y

Common Nicknames

Spoiler

Fish Hook: Dormammu’s j.:s:
Pizza Cutter/Slicer: Used for Zero’s j.:h: and Viewtiful Joe’s j.:s:

CHARACTERS

Akuma

Spoiler

coming soon

Amaterasu

Spoiler

[spoiler=Punishing Okami Shuffle by KsizzleMVC3][media=youtube]ODuHtSYmBbY[/media]

[/details]

Arthur

Spoiler

coming soon

C.Viper

Spoiler

coming soon

Captain America

Spoiler

[spoiler=(On Point) Shield Slash spam]http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…-with-durpy-stuff-thread.151752/#post-6314018

[/details]

Chris Redfield

Spoiler

coming soon

Chun Li

Spoiler

coming soon

Dante

Spoiler

coming soon

Deadpool

Spoiler

coming soon

Dormammu

Spoiler

coming soon

Dr Doom

Spoiler

[spoiler=(As Assist) Dealing with hidden missiles assist]http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…durpy-stuff-thread.151752/page-2#post-6319670

[/details]

Dr Strange

Spoiler

coming soon

Felicia

Spoiler

coming soon

Firebrand

Spoiler

coming soon

Frank West

Spoiler

coming soon

Ghost Rider

Spoiler

coming soon

Haggar

Spoiler

coming soon

Hawkeye

Spoiler

coming soon

Hsien-Ko

Spoiler

lol


#2

Hulk

Spoiler

coming soon

Iron Fist

Spoiler

coming soon

Iron Man

Spoiler

coming soon

Jill Valentine

Spoiler

coming soon

M.O.D.O.K.

Spoiler

coming soon

Magneto

Spoiler

coming soon

Morrigan

Spoiler

coming soon

Nemesis

Spoiler

coming soon

Nova

Spoiler

coming soon

Phoenix

Spoiler

coming soon

Phoenix Wright

Spoiler

coming soon

Rocket Raccoon

Spoiler

coming soon

Ryu

Spoiler

coming soon

Sentinel

Spoiler

[spoiler=(As Assist) Dealing with point character + Drones pressure] http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…t-post-updated-with-info.151752/#post-6314432

[/details]

She-Hulk

Spoiler

coming soon

Shuma Gorath

Spoiler

coming soon

Spencer

Spoiler

[spoiler=j.m after OTG Zipline by Kef (06/20/2012)] After a Spencer player already utilized a a wall bounce in a combo, if they try to OTG with a TK :h: Zipline, they can go for an overhead on you wit a j.:m:. Be wary of this and block high if needed. Example here: [media=youtube]QCftnUbxVfk[/media] (Starts at 3:35)

Spencer’s Incoming Character Pushblock Mixup by Kef (06/20/2012)

Spoiler

Spencer is able to hit you with an early jumping normal when you are coming in. If you pushblock the normal, he can do an anti-air command grab than you can’t escape. If you don’t pushblock, he can command grab you once you land. Example here: [media=youtube]QCftnUbxVfk[/media] (At 8:21) and here [media=youtube]mgC02loeE1Q[/media] (At 2:20) You can try and avoid this by pushblocking the normal as late as humanly possible. You can also try landing and holding up, but the Spencer player can again guess and anti-air command grab you. Though situation.


#3

Spider-man

Spoiler

coming soon

Storm

Spoiler

coming soon

Strider

Spoiler

[spoiler=(On Point) Dealing with Vajra H/Teleport kick] http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…-with-durpy-stuff-thread.151752/#post-6313466

[/details]

Super Skrull

Spoiler

[spoiler=(On Point) Defensive techniques against random meteor smashes.] The how to deal with durpy stuff thread. Exploring install supers, more missiles

[/details]

Taskmaster

Spoiler

coming soon

Thor

Spoiler

coming soon

Trish

Spoiler

coming soon

Tron Bonne

Spoiler

coming soon

Vergil

Spoiler

coming soon

Viewtiful Joe

Spoiler

coming soon

Wesker

Spoiler

[spoiler=(On point) Dealing with XF3/4 Alllllberrrrt]http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…-with-durpy-stuff-thread.151752/#post-6314335

[/details]

Wolverine

Spoiler

coming soon

X-23

Spoiler

coming soon

Zero

Spoiler

coming soon

MISC. (GENERAL)

High/Low Mixups

Spoiler

Dealing with traditional Magneto style high/low = http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…durpy-stuff-thread.151752/page-2#post-6318667

Assist + teleport Mix Ups

Spoiler

Dealing with assist + port pressure = http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…-updated-with-info.151752/page-3#post-6337643 ;http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph…t-post-updated-with-info.151752/#post-6314432


#4

To not waste more posts here’s my Anti-Zero guide. Covers a ton of things, including Zero + Jam Session and a little bit of ZDV.

Anti-Zero and Zero/Dante Tech by Kef Part 1

Spoiler

{INTROUCTION}
Skip this if you want to get to the good stuff.
Well, I decided to make an anti-zero guide. Why? Well, I am a Zero player. A day 1 Zero player since vanilla if you will. I’ve been hearing many people saying Zero is the best character in the game, “zero is fair Kappa”, Zero requires no skill etc. Now why? Why do people out of a sudden decided to aknowledge Zero?
Well, Zero was always a threat since vanilla. Me and other players in the Zero forums were creating combos, finding new tech, an we believed Zero was one of the best characters in the game (Top 7 or so). We were doing 1 million damage combos, creating Dante BFF tech, all very constantly. Everybody else didn’t know about this, so the forum meme “Zero does low damage but has good mixups” started. This was repeated constantly on stream by people that didn’t know. It wasn’t their fault. In a game full of so many characters and tech, it’s really hard to keep track of everything going on daily.
Funny story happened once Capcom announced UMVC3. The first batch of changes said the Lightning Loop was going to be removed, the D-Loop was going to be romoved (Sougenmu Dive Kick Loop), Lv.3 Buster was not going to have hard knockdown on it anymore, and j.:h: had less priority. Damn, Capcom went in. To surprise of many, out us the Zero players, Capcom probably thought they were going overboard and decided to give us the LL and D-Loop back, and give us the ability to buster cancel all our specials. Yay.
So with this, the top players knew Zero was a threat. Whatever they said, the other less knowledgable players followed and absorbed without testing anything themselves. This created players that knew nothing about Zero, but just called him cheap anyways. I am not saying Zero is not cheap, but most players have absolutely no idea why. This confused me the most, and was the main reason I decided to make this guide, because everybody currently lacks the experience against him.
I still think Zero is one of the best characters in the game (Top 3 or so), but I do think many people overrate him in some areas (and even underrate him in others). Again, this is only my opinion, and most of the guide is based on my opinion.
Zero
[Punishing Air-Dashes]
If you have a character on your team with a fast projectile, punish Zero everytime he command dashes or air dashes in the air. Those are his main ways of approach, so if your team is a strong zoning team (Dormammu, Morrigan, Magneto etc.) always capitalize on this and force him to super jump, where his options are more limited than at normal jump range. Punish a mid-range air-dash with things such as Magnetic Shockwave. Some supers like Chaotic Flame (the perfect example) can punish Zero as soon as you seem him air-dash.
You can also use your character’s normals. Things like Taskmaster’s Shield Skills, Dante’s s.:m:, Vergil’s :l: Judgement Cut and s.:h:, are all effective for punishing air-dashes, and beating j.:h:.
[The Pizza Slicer]
Probably Zero’s most overrated move period. Many characters have answers to anti-airing the move. The fact that it crosses up is shared by many other moves (Joe’s own Pizza Slicer, Dante’s j.:m:&:h:, Morrigan’s j.:h: etc.). The reason many people don’t do this is because they are visually scarred. They see Zero slicing all around his body and spinning, and they ultimately think Zero is untouchable. I am going to name a few normals that beat this move, but experiment what your characters can do against it because it will serve you a lot. Some of these include :
- Hawkeye’s j.:m:
- Magneto’s s.:l:
- Vergil’s :s:&s.:h:
- Zero’s s.:h:
- Trish’s s.:h:
- Dormammu’s cr.:m:
Again, test the areas you can anti-air it in. For example, Spencer’s :s: counters it perfectly at the tip of the :s:, but loses very badly to it if Zero is on top of him.
[No normal cancelled into :h: Hyenkyaku/Command Dash is safe]
Zero players once they used their assist already, they will go for a solo mixup. This mixup is cancel any normal into the arc command dash. It’s very easy to react to and block overhead, but sometimes seeing how it could cross-up, especially with j.:h:, it’s could be dangerous. The thing that I’ve never seen anybody do is to punish Zero while he’s coming down with j.:h:. **Once you’ve found a good anti-air against j.:h:, you can simply anti-air after the Zero player goes for this mixup because no normal deals enough block stun to lock you down. **
You can also you to back dash or forward dash. This is one of the main reasons many Zero players get a hit on two characters because people mash assist and don’t expect this big gap (the pizza slicer has no problem hitting both because of it’s hitbox).
[You are not part of Devil May Cry]
What I mean by this is your character probably cannot mess with Zero’s normals. If you are not Taskmaster, Vergil, Trish, Dante, Hulk, Strider etc. don’t even try to beat him at close range. The most effective strategy to counter Zero is to zone him. If you can’t fight him with your normals or can’t zone him, guess what, you have a bad matchup against him.
[Lv.1 and Lv.2 Busters are not Safe]
That’s it. You can punish both of them, so be on the look out because I’ve seen many Zero’s just cancel any block-string to any buster they have stored, and that could be their death.
[Sougenmu]

  1. The fullscreen chip. Constant :m: Hadangekis (fireball) are inescapable. If you pushblock every single fireball (extremely easy to do), Trish (850k Health Character) takes around 10%.
  2. Avoidable Fireball Strings. Once you block the double :h: fireballs and Zero doesn’t lock you down with :m: fireballs, you can Super Jump and escape right away. Also, any type of fireball followed up that is not :m: followed up after double :m: fireballs (the fast ones) , allow you to Super Jump away too.
  3. Don’t block. Get away. You are not gonna block Sougenmu Zero for long, so just get away and run away like you would do with vs Powered up Firebrand/Felicia or Spiral Swords. Also, pushblock a lot and watch out for the :h: command dashes which are now safe.
  4. You can grab Sougenmu activation. If by any chance a Zero activates Sougenmu in throw range, mash throw and punish him. This is also counts if somebody DHCs next to you and the first super (the one of the character DHC’d out) didn’t hit (meaning you are not in any blockstun).
  5. Dealing with unblockable setups. Smart Zero players can lock you down with an assist like Jam Session or Cold Star, activate Sougenmu and go for an unblockable. How do you deal with them? Well, even thoug this is very rare to happen and I haven’t seen it once in any tournament, there’s a way around some setups. The unblockables work like this pretty much: Zero hits high, then Zero hits low but the Shadow hits high at the same time he hits low. Easy no? Well, to get out of it just pushblock Zero’s high hit. Doesn’t work against all setups, so experiment.
    Video: [media=youtube]chYHHkcP3Yo[/media]
    [X-Factor Guard Cancel]
    One of Zero’s best strengths is that he can cancel any of his moves into his Lv.3 and beat your Guard Cancel is you press any button. Counter this by throwing Zero is he is close enough to you. This only does not work against the first hits of his s.:h: or Shippuga (you can Guard Cancel Grab the last hit of both).
    There’s also the possibility of you baiting the buster and doing an invincible move like Bionic Arm or something.
    [Zero cannot block after a whiffed Raikouzen/Lightning]
    This is one is one of the most common things that goes unpunished at tournaments. If Zero whiffs a Raikouzen in the air, he cannot block until he lands. As simple as that. If he has a Lv.3 Buster stored (the golden buster), he can cancel it and make it safe. But if you see Zero holding something blue (Lv.1) or green (Lv.2), that means he cannot cancel the Raikouzen and he’s dead.
    [Buster into Lightning is unsafe. Lightning into Buster is safe. Lightning into Buster into Lightning is unsafe]
    Another one of those long titles. Basically, if Zero cancels his Lv.3 Buster in the air into any lightning, you can hit him out of it. If top players knew this alone, I bet many of their matches against Zero players would be different. Buster into :l: Raikouzen is not a true blockstring, so you can hit Zero once he’s coming at you with Raikouzen. Many supposedly slow normals work against this tactic. As a day 1 Zero player, I am still impressed the most knowledgeable players don’t know about this. It was probably one of the first things I tested back in vanilla.
    Video here: [media=youtube]U59aczm10r4[/media]
    [The new solo Buster Cancelled Dash mixup]
    A new mixup good Zero players are doing now. Basically when their assist runs out and they need to open you up solo, they will do a blockstring and then do a command dash to the other side an immediately cancel it with buster to use it as a solo crossup. This tactic is only meant to catch people that aren’t pushblocking Zero. This does not work if you pushblock the desired cancelled normal at any point. Don’t worry about this one that much, pushblock your way to victory.
    [The incoming character mixup]
    This is only covering his solo incoming character mixup. Important things here:
    - Any lightning (any) hitting you as soon as you come in, must be blocked normally (coming in from the right corner, hold :f:). The window for this is longer than you think, so see if for yourself in training mode so you see when can expect the lightning to cross up.
    - If it’s not an early lightning (see above), that means you need to block it as a cross up (coming in from the right corner, hold :b:). The window for this takes a lot longer than what you think, so again, test it in training mode and see for yourself.
    Okay, so now we have two types of lightnings. I’ll call them an Early Lightning, and a Cross Up Lightning. An Early Lightning is not so hard to block, but it’s inescapable if timed meaty. But, a Cross Up Lightning can cross you up, but the window for this to happen comes so late that if your character can dash up or come down with an attack, you can evade it! Come down with dat fish hook from Dormammu if the Zero player tries a Cross Up Lightning and see what happens. You could also use a light attack for a safer and quicker normal.
    If you successfully blocked a lightning (*Cross Up or Early *type), you’ll end up facing the opposite side (now Zero is in the corner). Be ready to block opposite now. You can try an be tricky and go for a ground grab as soon as you block the lightning. Some Zero players may attempt a second lightning mixup using buster cancellation. If they cancel an Early Lightning into Lv.3 Buster into another lightning, you can just jump up and hit Zero before the lightning comes out (just like the tech you learned above). Now, if you forget that, the buster will still whiff (if you are crouch blocking), but the cross up lightning has a chance to connect.To avoid this completely, just do a very late pushblock once you block an Early Lightning, then block the opposite (because you end up in the opposite side like you learned above). This way, no lightning will cross you up and you can pushblock your way out of the situation (or even punish Zero, because remember, Buster into lightning is not safe). A Cross Up Lightning hits so late that a cancel is really easy to stop.
    So to summarize: Learn the different timings in Early and Cross Up lightnings. And pretty much, if you have a good enough normal (like Dormammu’s cr.:m: for example) you can hit Zero if he tries to go for another lightning. Remember (can’t stress this enough), buster into any lightning at any range, in any situation, is punishable.
    [His bad matchups]
    Zero? Bad matchups? Doesn’t compute. Well, that’s because you’re probably on too much of the Zero salt, or you don’t understand the character. Zero is still an amazing character with a ton of tools, an those tools are hard to shut down effectively. Before I tell you what I think (IMHO) are his bad matchups, let me get something out of the way. I am a Zero main, and by no means I am trying to underevaluate (is that a word?) my character. I am just being honest here. Now, for the 3 mosqueters.
    In my honest opinion, there’s only 3 characters in the game that I could consider having an advantageous matchup against Zero. What I mean by that? In numbers it would be that the character beats Zero 5.5-4.5 or 6-4. But why only this three characters? What do they share in common? The three of them shut down Zero’s main game, as simple as that. What’s Zero’s main game? Using air command dashes and air dashes to approach and using his pizza cutter to out-prioritize (I am inventing words eh). If Zero thinks his better of zoning (Ex. Haggar, Hulk), then he throws fireballs. If none of those three things work, SJ and try to find an opening with his mobility or aerial buster shots. These characters shut down all this? They must gods then. Not really. Let me mention them already (again, this is my personal opinion).
    1. Vergil
  • s.:h: and :s: alone shuts down pretty much everything Zero can threaten Vergil with. Air dashing in? Anti-aired. :h: Command Dash with j.:h:? Anti-aired? Wanna get tricky and shoot a buster after a dash to make it safe? Both these moves eat the buster for dinner and knock you of the air. s.:h: trying to poke? My s.:h: has more range, and eats your buster by the way, just in case you tried to be funny.j.:h: also beats Zero air to air (except for a reaction buster).
    So what did we said above if Zero’s approach wasn’t as effective? That’s right, fireball war. Who wins it? Well, Vergil most underused move by far, the Judgement Cut, absorbs any of Zero’s fireballs, and is capable of absorbing both a :l: fireball and a :m: + a buster at the same time. Judgement Cut and Lv.3 Buster do the same damage, so they could be trading damage from time to time. He activates Sougenmu? Vergil activates Devil Trigger or Spiral Swords. DT Vergil VS Sougenmu Zero is pretty much a DBZ fight.
    I could just say activate Spiral Swords and win, but that pretty much applies to everybody. And actually, Zero does a pretty good job staying in the and throwing busters against Spiral Swords.
    2. Dormammu
    This character I think is going to be the best character in the game once the game evolve, but that has nothing to do with this. So let’s see, how Dormammy deals with Zero’s approach? j.:h:? Anti-aired completely free by cr.:m: and s.:m: (but mostly, cr.:m:). s.:m: stays out there for so long that even Zero hits you first, s.:m: will hit Zero before he continues spinning. Airdashing or command dashing fullscreen? Fuck that shit, Chaotic Flame. The same as Vergil, if Zero wants to do something smart, and try to shoot the anti-air normal with a Lv.3 Buster, both s.:m; and cr.:m: have the possibility of completely destroying the buster shot. j.:s: beats Zero air to air pretty nicely. j.:h: goes even with it, whoever is first wins (but j.:s: has more range than j.:h: anyways).
    Fireball wars, what do we have here? Well, random Chaotic Flame destroys any fireballs, but that’s not good enough. Flame Carpet will absorb any single fireball, so it’s a nice backup to have during the war. Dark Hole :m: destroys any fireball + a Lv.3 Buster Shot, and as a bonus, covers space in case Zero randomly decided to go in against you again. Random :h: Purifications can also stop the war, and give Dormammu the advantage (because it sends Zero to the air).
    If you payed attention to the Vergil section, you might’ve notice that I didn’t mention an area that Vergil doesn’t counter Zero in. What happens if Zero wants to calm down, think about his approach, and just SJ (super jump) and throw buster shots. That’s were Dormammu shines more than Vergil. Purifications completely destroy this tactic, forcing Zero to move out of there and come down.
    And all that’s not even counting the power of the power of the powers.
    3. Hawkeye
    I am getting tired. Let me resume this one a bit short. s.:m: beats approaches, Gimlet beats approaces wth buster and can punish air dashes and command dashes fullscreen. j.:h: beats Zero air to air. Slide is a good tool that could out range some of Zero’s normals, but is risky seeing how Zero can cancel with buster.
    Piercing Bolt beats anything that Zero throws (even in Sougenmu). A Piercing Bolt > Gimlet > DHC or XF kills Zero.
    Trile Piercing beats Zero SJ and throwing busters in the air.
    4. Vajra
    The assist does a really good job at stopping Zero’s air game (which is pretty much his approach and SJ game). If you have this assist on your team, it can make your life easier if you have a bad matchup against Zero like Wesker does for example. This also helps you against Firebrand and Morrigan, so why not?
    ------------------------------------------------ continue

Ultimate MVC3 Strategies/News Guide. UPDATE: Viper's S cancel infinite, Chrisis vs. Champ FT10
#5

Anti-Zero Guide by Kef Part 2

Spoiler

Zero + Dante’s Jam Session
[Mixup on the Ground]
In Marvel 2 you didn’t see a lot of this, but in Marvel 3 is everywhere. This is me talking about “teleport” characters calling assists and crossing you up so the assist hits you. Many characters like Vergil, Zero, X-23, Dante, Dormammu can do this. The thing is, most of them use them with beam assists like Magneto’s Disruptor or other type of projectiles such as Sentinel’s Drones and Doctor Doom’s Hidden Missiles. It’s really hard to something about them because it’s like they are setting a projectile behind you. But in this case with Zero and Jam Session, we can take advantage that Jam Session: 1. Is not a beam. 2. Is punishable on block, 3. Is not invincible. and 4. Moves Dante forward.
What a lot of Zero players is just make the opponent block one of Zero’s normals, call Dante and then teleport behind you. This is a very usual tactic with other characters as well, everybody knows that. Before I explain the tactics to counter this, let me explain some things. Zero has 3 command dashes: a short one :)l:), one that sends him far horizontally :)m:), and one that sends him upward in an arc :)h:). Now let’s get this straigh: If Zero cancels any of his normals close to you into a command dash, he’s gonna cross you up. It doesn’t from what distance you blocked his long range s.:h:, both the :l: and :m: versions of the teleport will cross you up, every time. Now, there’s an exception to this, and that’s his :h: command dash (the arc one). Zero’s :h: command dash it’s his least used in this situation, because the player wants to mix you up very quickly, and the :h: command dash is very easy to react to because Zero takes so long. So below I am covering both the :l: and :m: versions of Zero’s teleport + Jam Session.
Lastly, there’s different situations depending on that normal Zero used (because of the blockstun). Below I am basing these tactics is Zero canceled the first hit of his s.:h: Why? Because of 2 things. 1. Is Zero’s normal with the longest range, so is the most effective at making you block. 2. It has deals more blockstun thatn cr.:m:, but less blockstun than the first hit of Shippuga :)f::h:). Why is that important? Because the Shippuga should not be used in blockstrings because is punishable if pushblock occurred earlier in the string (Explained in another section) and because the first hit deals so much blockstun that the game block the mixup for you, so it’s not an effective crossup. Now for the tactics:

  1. Abuse the Blockstun and Pushblock
  • This can apply to any teleport character, but Zero’s s.:h: deals so much blockstun that you can delay your pushblock a lot and you will be in auto-block so yo don’t have to hold the opposite direction to block the cross up. This works with cr.:m: too,just that you can’t delay it as much.
  1. Mash an Attack if Zero’s Uses a Move Other than :h:
    This tactic is one the Zero player could randomly use, or if he’s smart, to counter the above strategy. The Zero player could use a quick :l: or :m: attack to cross you up, something similar to what Yipes likes doing with Vergil (s.:l: > Rapid Slash). Now, you can counter this one in a risky way, using certain normals.
    Let me mention a few you can mash:
  • Normals that hit both sides. These will hit Dante and you can cancel them like normal to be safe from Zero that is now on the other side. Some of these are: Zero’s cr.:m:, Strider’s cr.:m:, Vergil’s cr.:l: (very effective), Akuma’s cr.:l: (very effective), and Doom’s :s:. Experiment what can you do after Dante gets hit in training mode, because Doom’s :s: for example launches Dante really high, so follow-ups can kill Dante in one hit depending on how much meter you have.
  • Moves that don’t care about Dante but are not invincible. Pretty much the only example I found from this is Sentinel’s cr.:m:. Didn’t matter the distance I canceled cr.:m: or s.:m: from into the command dash, Sentinel absorbed Dante’s hit and could even reach and punish Zero’s :m: teleport. Note that this did not work with the :l: teleport.
  • Moves with Option Selected Throws. One move that is the perfect example of this is Taskmaster’s Shield Skills :)b::h:). This move hits both sides, has high priority, and a throw comes out if you do it near an opponent. All of the scenarios that can happen are Taskmaster’s favor. If Zero did cr.:m: + Dante > :m: Command Dash at the tip of cr.:m:, Taskmaster would grab Zero. If I was mashing :b::h: during the blockstun and Zero cancelled into the dash + Dante close to me, Shield Skills would come out and hit Dante (and made contact with Zero is he used the :l: version). This type of moves can be very effective, even though I think there are not a lot in the game.
  • Invincible Moves. Mash Haggar’s Lariat in between any of Zero’s string and Dante will get hit (including a dash canceled from s.:h:). Mashing an invincible super like Hulk’s Gamma Crush could be risky, but if it works, super like these can even hit Dante (because they have a hitbox on the back) and can give you the chance to kill Dante with one DHC. Note that while I tested this, sometimes I would option select a block or a “pushblock block” because I was doing the super as forward motion while in blockstun.
    Comments on this strategies. Even though it says mashing, once you test it in training mode, it’s a lot more reliable than what could be thought of when you are reading this. Experiment with all of you character’s moves and see which could be effective. To test this, go in training mode and record Zero doing cr.:m: (or first hit of s.:h:) + Dante xx :d::db::b::m: (or :l:).
  1. Crossover Counters.
    Mashing assists when blocking is not something many top players would advise you to do, but could prove very effective here because of Dante’s movement during Jam Session. He moves forward, making it so that many times when you mash on CC, your character coming in appears behind him, Depending on the CC, this could hit Dante or you could cancel the CC into a super to completely kill Dante, and leave Zero without his best assist. This tactic is pretty safe in general if you have the meter. Experiment with it, because one good CC can mean death to Dante instantly, and maybe even Zero too.
    [Punish Dante Marvel 2 Style]
  • Jam Session is an excellent assist that can be used both for lockdown and zoning. Knowing this, some players can decide to zone in the matchup and use Jam Session to leave you out. You can take advantage of this. Dante stays there doing Jam Session for a big while. Not only that, but you can punish Dante even after he does Jam Session. The only reason many players don’t abuse this as much, is because if you block Jam Session, you get pushed back to far to punish. Here are some notable ways of punishing the assist.

1. Beams. This assist is meant to be blocked if you are a Zero player. If you just throw this out there, anything can punish Dante. It only takes Dormammu two supers to kill Dante.
2. React When You Block Jam Session Jumping with Long Range Fast Attacks. Long title there. The perfect of this guys is Dormammu’s Chaotic Flame super. and Dante’s Reverb Shock. Both of this will punish at any height of both Dante’s and Dormammu’s normal jump, and are safe in case Zero tries to save Dante. 1 DHC could be enough to fully kill Dante.
3. Punish when Blocking Jam Session in the Corner. This is a common situation, but not that Jam Session is there by itself. If you see you have an opening, after you block Jam Session, hit a move that is either fast or could serve as anti-air to punish Zero in case he tries to save Dante or continue his pressure. Magneto’s :s: and s.:l: are good examples (also Magnetic Shockwave).
*4. XF Cancel.*Risky as fuck. XFC on the last hit of Jam Session and do a fast, powerful punish such as a super into a DHC to kill Dante. Probably the riskiest option, but the one that could possibly have the highest result (killing Dante and possible killing Zero if he pressed a button). XFC > Chaotic Flame > DHC is an example.
5. Crossover Counter. The answer to everything, lol. Very meter dependent, and you’ll have to experiment with your team. Better if your character has an air super so you cancel before you hit the ground and lose your invincibility of the CC (and Jam Session hits you). Storm’s Lightning Storm canceled from a CC is an example.
[Counter Assists]
Beams like Plasma Beam and Disruptor are good counters to Jam Session. The best counter is Akuma’s Tatsu assist. It pretty much kicks Dante out of Jam Session anytime Zero wants to do a crossup or just get in. Haggar’s Lariat is also very effective.
Now for some misconceptions. Vajra goes through Jam Session if Zero is not inside Jam Session when Strider is coming down. Zero has to hide inside Jam Session like Nemo inside a jellyfish so Strider gets hit by Jam Session. Otherwise, Strider just tracks Zero and hits him. Jam Session does not absorb all the missiles from Doom’s Hidden Missiles assist (2 will still remain).

  • Hidden Missiles VS Jam Session -
    They pretty much counter each other. What I mean by this is that if the Zero players sees the missile coming out, he can call Jam Session an eliminate them almost all. But, once Zero called Jam Session randomly, the other player can counter call with Hidden Missiles and start the party. Pretty much even fight, but slightly in Hidden Missile based teams’favor. These teams are mostly zoning teams, so they can stay fullscreen where Jam Session is not a threat.

Zero/Dante/Vergil AKA Love Triangle AKA ZVD AKA Zero May Cry
Thanks to Viscant’s team analysis, ZVD is now considered the best team in the game. Not sure about that, but again, that doesn’t matter for the sake of the guide. Just wanted to let everybody know of my experience with this team. Me and many original Zero players used it the first month or so of ultimate. We all thought the team was crazy, and rivaled or even beat the classic Team Hunters like Toaster liked to call it (Zero/Dante/Sentinel). Used it for a while, so I kind of know it’s weaknesses and it’s strenghts. Here is some tips on how to counter the team.
[The Snap-in Strategy]
If you snap in Vergil and kill him, the team just lost his best anchor by far and is left on a bad team order (Dante/Ryuenjin). Vergil has low life, so killing him without XF shouldn’t be much of a problem. Zero is not a scary anchor compared to Dante or Vergil, and Zero without assists is a completely different character. Let me inform you of what Dante/Ryuenjin can do and what solo Zero can and can’t do.
Dante/Ryuenjin

  • Can’t really use Ryuenjin to get in.
  • Can’t really use Ryuenjin to zone much.
  • Dante’s solo mixup is not as impressive as Dante + Assist.
  • Dante cannot combo off any grab without using X-Factor (only air grabs).
  • Dante can kill you of any clean hit with a Lightning Loop DHC (combo has to end in the corner, which isn’t much trouble for Dante).
  • Very hard to block incoming character mixups with Ryuenjin + Teleports.
  • Possibiliy of an invincible Crossover Counter that leads into a combo if Dante has 2 meters (1 meter for CC, 1 meter for Sougenmu). Not as impressive as it sounds because you can react to the CC and DHC out or something. Still a great tool to have.
    Solo Zero
  • Still can kill you off any clean hit. Zero has no problem corner carrying you. In numbers, he gets 950k with 1 LL.
  • Still has a great solo incoming character mixup.
  • Very unsafe solo mixup.
  • Predictable mixup.
  • Very easily zoned.
  • Can’t cover much areas at SJ height.
  • Cannot combo off any grab without X-Factor (ground grabs only work in the corner).
    Doesn’t sound so bad ehh? Well, but how do you get the snap in? Isn’t it better to kill Zero off the first hit. Well, here what could happen depending of what you decide:
    Kill Zero off the first hit
  • Dante/Vergil coming in.
  • Vergil still sitting as anchor.
  • Dante can kill of any hit (and combo from his air grabs)
    Snap in Vergil and succesfully killing him
  • Dante/Zero coming in, worst team order.
  • Zero, worst anchor on the team.
  • Dante can kill of any hit (cannot combo from any grab).
    Whatever you decide, I’ll still recommend to snap in Vergil if you cannot kill Zero of whatever you landed (a grab for example).
    [Vergil’s Rapid Slash is very unsafe]
    Not that good of an assist when the player just throws it out there. Hit Vergil is he comes near you, the active frames take a big while to kick in.
    You can apply some of the strategies that you learned against Jam Session. Normals that hit both sides are effective at mixups that use the assist (especially with Zero).
    Don’t mess with the Devil Trigger vesion though.
    [END Comments]
    That’s the end of the mini-guide I wanted to post. Read it, but more importantly, practice everything in training mode.
    Now, please do me a favor. If you play top tier, don’t you ever, ever of evers, complain about another top tier. I know for some player’s, MVC3 was their first MVC game. As someone who started in Marvel 2 (in 2010), I can tell you that crying about how Magneto and Psylocke assist are so cheap when you use Sentinel and Commando is the dumbest thing someone can do in that game. the intersting thing for me in Marvel 2 is seeing how the top tiers interact and try to counter each other. They are all so powerful that they can fight in many different way. So again, if you play Wesker, Spencer, Vergil, Dormammu, Morrigan, Magneto, Viper, etc. please don’t complain about Zero. If you play Hsien-Ko, you have my permission. Also remember UMVC3 is a team game, not a 1v1 game.
    [END]

The M.O.D.O.K. MATCHUP THREAD
#6

Akuma’s missing in the character list, BTW.


#7

Thanks a lot. I wanted to talk about hidden missiles since everyone either hates it or agrees it should be patched. Coming from playing cheap ass old games I feel it’s more about just learning your options against it.

I feel like the main things for battling hidden missiles includes knowing

  1. How the specific point character or team generally utilizes the assists and knowing where to find gaps to go in.

  2. Knowing which combos and bnbs you can use to evade the hidden missiles falling down on you after you hit the point character. Like for example…Zero’s f+H always moves him past the missiles if you use it before they fall down during a combo. The tracking is not strong enough to follow him during his f+H. Other characters have these moves that push them forward that you can use to escape the combo breaker from the missiles.

  3. Knowing which teams you can create that can blow up abuse of the missiles (usually via meter but with some teams it can be done without).

With the first main thing, I feel it’s a lot about knowing how to start the round. If you’re using a character with fast walk speed or fast wave dash and normals, stay on top of your opponent to keep pressure on the assist. It’s hard to call missiles safely when constant pressure is on the opponent at the start of the round as it could easily get the point character and Doom in a bday situation.

With the second thing…like explained earlier there are definite combos that specific characters (or maybe more) can hit a point character with while avoiding the combo break from the missiles coming down. Anybody who has a move during their combo that moves them towards the opponent quickly can utilize this. I haven’t really tested this with all characters though I do know that Zero’s f+H and I believe some of his other moves just push him so far forward during combos that he usually escapes the missiles raining down after hitting the opponent.

I remember Filipino Champ bringing up that you can also launch and do a TAC right before the missiles land as a chance to continue the combo and escape the rain of the missiles.

I’d like for people to get into this more as I feel it’s pretty viable for dealing with the missiles after getting hit.

The last thing is mainly about knowing what your team make up can do to blow up the missiles. Characters like Zero and Vergil can do a lot of start of round stuff that makes it risky to call missiles at the start of the round and Vergil specifically has normals like his s.H that naturally absorb projectiles and have so much range that they will easily eat bad assist calls. Having a character with a strong full screen safe THC like Ammy or Dorm (with liberation assist) can be strong for blowing up missiles calls. DHC’s from full screen supers like Dorm’s, Storm’s, Akuma’s, Sentinel’s and others can be strong for safely blowing up abuse of the missiles.


#8

This is more or less it. HM abuse is especially vulnerable to hyper punishment; Doom stays out for a long time, allowing a long period during which you can either hit him or him + the point char with specific hyper combos.

Those that are invulnerable, or move forward (e.g. Bionic Arm, Blue Light Special, Berserker Barrage X, Hyper Charging Star) and those which nullify stuff are good at this. Fast beam hypers like Dormammu, Ryu, etc are also good as they deal full damage before the missiles hit. You can take advantage of hypers that ignore anything and everything on hit (cinematic ones, like Bionic Maneuvers, Killer Illumination, Elemental Rage etc) to avoid them as well, provided you hit the point character on time.

Not much else to add beyond what is here, tbh. Missiles is very much a momentum-based assist, so staying in an opponent’s face can render it too unsafe to call out, especially if it doesn’t call all 6 missiles before being interrupted.


#9

Where’s all the anti spencer stuff? Spencer mains here make their character sound like he should never hit people and ever swing he takes is a death gamble.


#10

on Big Two lasts night, i heard Noel mention that if Vergil activates swords, then teleports behind you, you can just continue to hold down-back and you’ll still block it. is this true?


#11

If you don’t pushblock it and they do constant crossup teleport pressure, the swords will keep you in blockstun so it’s a true blockstring that you can’t get hit out of once you start blocking.


#12

I am pretty sure the Vergil player can double wave-dash back then go for a teleport. Also, mixups using the :h: teleport should negate the trick.


#13

Hulk’s gamma charge+drones spam=I don’t know what to do.

I guess that should go somewhere in there, as I’ve seen others complain about it as well.


#14

You never have to block the opposite way against Spiral Swords if they do the qcb+B teleport, whether stuck in blockstun or not. I’m surprised people still don’t know this, yet I keep hearing hype comments from commentators going “great blocks!” against Vergil’s spiral swords. So yeah, whether stuck in blockstun or not, you can block the B teleport spiral swords by just holding downback. They can cross you up by jumping over you or using H teleport into air S though.

Anyway if anyone’s getting scrubbed out by Hulk’s Gamma Quake, you can dash forward and throw him out of it before the rocks come down. Probably can’t do this with Doom, Dorm or other characters with bad ground dashes.


#15

I want to add one thing regarding Missiles, you should be using audio cues, the game is designed around them and some of the stuff cannot be dealt with on reaction without these cues, in a noisy tournament environment you might want to use headphones to hear the game, and what irritates me is people listening to music while playing when a lot of the shenanigans in the game can be heard on reaction and is designed that way(assist calls, moves etc). Hidden Missiles is one of the assists with a painfully obvious audio cue, and you want to hear it to react with it effectively.

Also another simple way to blow up X+Missiles projectile keepaway is if you have a character with a high durability beam(Ironman H unibeam, Magneto H Disruptor, Modok H,Doom H Plasma, Hawkeye Spritzer etc) you can simply on reaction do H Beam + your own projectile durable assist, to blow up the Missile call while hitting both characters(the advantage of quick full screen beams), then use your assist to cover your rushdown, it’s much more effective than doing a super, since A) your opponent will have a hard time reacting to it, B) the missiles won’t tag your super(if you have specific setups you can avoid this obviously). If you have a good projectile durable assist you will blow through Dorm pillars too(it’s only 15 durability points), or you may tag him through startup, since pillar startup is huge. That is the biggest disadvantage of missiles, it’s a projectile assist that does not support the main character directly with it’s durability but has a delayed presence, so you can blow through Doom and hte point characters zoning with your Beam + assist, and then use that to rushdown and dash through the missiles, I might be tainted since I use this with Magneto/Task-Straight Arrows assist, and Magneto’s H beam is the fastest and his Grounded and Aerial Mobility are very quick, but I don’t see why it shouldn’t work for other chars . Obviously none of this works vs Astral Vision Morri/Doom, but I’m of the opinion if you let point Morrigan activate and establish Astral Vision you lost the battle.


#16

i recently started playing this game outside of training mode again (unfortunately this means online, but i’ll take what i can get) and vajra assist has been giving me some trouble. originally i was just looking for ways to stuff vajra with my main team, but i ended up trying a few more characters as well.
this stuff isn’t foolproof, since your opponent probably isn’t just going to call strider raw and then sit there, but i figured i’d share anyway.

with dante, the most effective thing seems to be jam session on reaction to strider appearing, cancel into devil trigger, shoot thunderbolts. unfortunately this pushes strider back every time you hit him, but with flight mode and air dashes you can hit him several times for about 50% of his life, or you can kill him right there with level 1 xf.

morrigan can do shadow blade m, fly, shadow blade m, finishing shower for around 50-70%, depending on how many hits you get (credit goes to nooneyouknow for the idea.) you can then air dash forward, shell kick, land and do shadow servant to bring that to about 90%. there’s probably a way to kill strider, but i’ll have to play around with it some more.

doom of course can just do sphere flame for around 75%. activating xf1 will not quite finish him, but following up with standing h, launch will finish him. if you’d rather spend another bar than xf, you can just do another sphere flame. and once again, tacking on a s.h > launch will kill him.

and some stuff i scraped up real quick with a few other characters. i don’t play most of them so they’re probably not optimal punishes, but maybe somebody can make use of them

Spoiler

iron man: repulsor l, spread, proton cannon. other versions of repulsor work, but light version starts up the fastest

sentinel: 5m, launch, mmhs does like 90% lol

taskmaster: legion arrow m+h, otg with a second legion arrow will kill

zero: ryuenjin l, rekkoha. the other versions of ryuenjin take too long for zero to land, and strider recovers before rekkoha can hit

ryu: shinku tatsumaki. it has invincibility too, so you don’t have to worry about trading and wasting the bar. shinku hado doesn’t work, too much startup i guess

magneto: magnetic shockwave works, but you have to do it immediately or else strider will hit you out of it, and it doesn’t do much damage. however, you can just jump up and do j.h into a combo, and it’s really easy to time. basically you want your j.h to be active when strider appears from the teleport.

hulk: h, s, mmhs, gamma wave h x3

wolverine, storm, nova, skrull, probably somebody else: i only tried wolverine’s fatal claw, but i’m assuming any character with a hyper that surrounds their body would work


#17

For Dante I think it’s better to do Twister against Vajra(faster and probably his safest option, it doesnt move Dante forward either like Jam Session). With Magneto you can use counter into shockwave, it does more damage and the counter is invulnerable to everything but hypers before activation, and completely invincible after activation, his counter has 20 active frames which makes it really easy to use against vajra to blow him up, I wouldn’t risk doing jH vs Vajra since you might get bopped and raw shockwave has holes in it(4f vulnerable at the end). Not to mention Vajra can’t really track a completely mobile Magneto. M+H Legion arrows are the way to go with Taskmaster too.

All of this however is pretty hard to apply in a real match considering the speed and the pace of which the match occurs and the fact that you are fighting the point + Vajra, not Vajra Assist alone.


#18

thank you for anti zero, I played 7 different people in the last 2 days, and they all played zero =_=


#19

yeah, they’re not so much counters as much as they’re just… options to consider, i guess. i was more looking for ways to damage strider rather than just avoid the assist.

i tried twister, but vajra kept hitting me out of it. jam session seems to make a column to the top of the screen right away, whereas twister starts from the ground and works its way up. twister has to be done immediately upon seeing strider, jam session can be done a little bit later, like when strider disappears. he’ll end up reappearing right on top of dante, even after the forward momentum from jam session, so it’s not as much of a hindrance as it would seem.

and i forgot magneto even had counters. i never see them except from mistaken inputs, lol

also i just wanted to bump the thread, since i would consider it a tad more useful than such gems as the ‘marlinpie rapeface’ (as amusing as it may be) or the countless threads asking a single question.