The Daily Matchup

chun-li

#1

Hey,

I figured we need to get some relevant discussion going, and matchup knowledge is always relevant. But it’s hard to make someone write about a matchup on their own accord, so I thought it would be a nice idea to get a daily matchup-thread!
So this thread is going to be exactly what the title says, each day we talk/write what we know about one specific matchup. That way we’ll have a lot of knowledge piling up pretty quickly and everyone learns something new, hopefully :slight_smile:

Also, write if you think a matchup is good or bad!

I’m thinking we just go through it alphabeticaly, because that’s easier:

17th Jan: Abel
18th Jan: Adon
19th Jan: Akuma
20th Jan: Balrog
21th Jan: Blanka
22th Jan: Cammy
23th Jan: Chun-Li
24th Jan: Cody
25th Jan: C.Viper
26th Jan: Dan
27th Jan: Dee Jay
28th Jan: Dhalsim
29th Jan: Dudley
30th Jan: E.Honda
31th Jan: El Fuerte
01 Feb: Evil Ryu
02 Feb: Fei Long
03 Feb: Gen
04 Feb: Gouken
05 Feb: Guile
06 Feb: Guy
07 Feb: Hakan
08 Feb: Ibuki
09 Feb: Juri
10 Feb: Ken
11 Feb: Makoto
12 Feb: M.Bison
13 Feb: Oni
14 Feb: Rose
15 Feb: Rufus
16 Feb: Ryu
17 Feb: Sagat
18 Feb: Sakura
19 Feb: Seth
20 Feb: T.Hawk
21 Feb: Vega
22 Feb: Yang
23 Feb: Yun
24 Feb: Zangief


"Becoming the strongest woman in the world!" Chun-li Match-up Thread
#2

Great idea!

Abel - Solid Advantage

Abel’s a character where Chun can really unleash her offense against him. His best defensive option is EX Tornado throw and she has ways around it. Meanwhile some of his best mixups are left/right guessing games, but EX SBK covers both sides so much of his offense against her will have to revolve around avoiding it/baiting it out.

He doesn’t have a jump-in that she can’t really deal with, and while zoning him isn’t always conventional she can do it. Stay out of his s.mk range and be wary of FA attempts and she’s can make him work a bit to get to her. I don’t think she wins this one by zoning him out completely - at some point he will get in - but a good mix of offense and defense and it’s Abel who has to put in the work to beat her. She can Kikoken zone somewhat but once he has U1 it’s a terrible idea so she shouldn’t rely on it.

U1 has a few uses in this match but I like U2 for the versatility and mobility. If Abel is using U1 be careful about throwing Kikoken anytime he has Revenge Meter. If Abel is using U2 don’t press too many buttons mid-range. On a jump-in go for a stomp as if he does do wakeup U2 Chun will just bounce over him.


"Becoming the strongest woman in the world!" Chun-li Match-up Thread
Chun-li Q&A: Ask simple questions here!
#3

I agree, to add on to what you wrote:

The ideal range I like to play this matchup is either at far range where Chun can zone with mp kikouken and punish atempts from him to get past it, or just outside of his f+mk range where she can both zone and whiffpunish him with st.hp. Just be wary of him trying raw dash or focus dash, you can punish dash attempts with c.lk x ex legs, throw or lk hazanshu.

St.mp x ex legs always connects fully on Abel, which is a great incentive to run U2 in this matchup.

Chun has a lot of active frames on her normals, so generally she does not have problems punishing roll attempts. If he is rolling past your kikouken you get a free sweep, and if he is trying to roll past your pokes you usualy get a free throw.

Both st.mk and st.hp are great anti airs against him, and his xup j.mk doesn’t have the best hitbox so you can walk under it and do c.mk, c.lp, st.hp as a consistent punish.

C.hp x legs can be looped 4 times on Abel, and cl.hk x legs, c.hp x legs, c.hk works on him too.

j.HP~HP+Throw option select works wonders against him.
DF+HK can be very ambiguous for him to block too.

6.5 in favour of Chun imo, but Abel has a tonne of burst damage so if you lose concentration for a second the match quickly snowballs into a loss.


#4

I am out of town for work and busy (and tired) so I don’t have much to add to the discussion although I think this thread is a fantastic idea.

I don’t think it’s as favorable, Abel has some safe jump setups that really wreck Chun. I have seen a safe jump OS double option select off Tornado Throw that forces you to block. Jumpin is safe, backdash gets swept, reversal gets blocked, backdash after blocking his jumpin gets Ultra 2’d. [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUE6fNLYLOQ[/details]

Also, I’ve realized that Chun’s U1 can lose to an Abel who knows how to release his U2. I always believed that Hosenka would beat Abel’s U2 clean, every time. This is not actually the case. If he times his release right, he can still have invulnerable frames after Chun’s invulnerable frames run out. The timing is odd but not actually that hard once you get used to it.


#5

Abel’s Ultra I start up is 1+13 frames, but is only completely invincible from frames 1-4.

From Wiki: 1~4f Invincible, 5~14f strike invincible (except feet), 5~14 projectile invincible, hard knockdown, armor break, pursuit property, Opponent gets up 57F after throw recovers

His feet are vulnerable to lows like Cr. LK and Cr. MK.

I like the risk/reward of using throw mix-ups on Abel after a knock-down. His options are to tech, jump, or non-ex TT. I don’t really fear his non-ex TT because it is a very unorthodox response considering everything else Chun is capable of (HSU or Cr. LK). A throw will beat reversal roll and EX TT.

It is good to mix in Cr. LK with OS sweep in case he is back-dashing, but also builds meter and is a strong lead for further mix-ups. Against weaker Abels who might wake-up Ultra I more often, this is still a safe option.

Against Ultra II users, Cr. MK is stronger because it can be cancelled into EX SBK after the freeze.

HSU can lead into more damage, but is less pressure on block and is more easy to escape from. Better to make him afraid of reversal with the above options, first.

If there is a point in the match where you are forced into neutral game with Abel, you have to be able to react to step-kick. After blocking step-kick, Abel will typically want to mix between TT or Cl. HP. Abel is even on block after step-kick and Cl. HP will catch you before you leave the ground, if you try to jump out. This will lead into a combo for him. The best option is to back-dash, which is hard to execute in this situation so it needs to be practiced to be quick enough to avoid TT.

Abel’s cross-up and neutral jump can be avoided with Cr. Mk (for example, if he neutral jumps when you attempt a standing tech).

Bad EX Wheel Kick can be punished with ex legs or St. HP, but must be frame perfect.


#6

Today we talk about Adon, I will write my bit later today because I have to be away for a bit :slight_smile:


#7

this is a top idea, I struggle against constant jaguar kick spam, I only feel comfortable focusing if I see adon jump forward. I know that crmk is good for making his annoying jmk setups after throw.

As far as pokes go, I like to whiff punish adons sthk with chuns far sthk, although I know crmp and crmk can also be used.

Havent been playing chun long so excuse my matchup inexperience.


#8

Against Adon I haven’t found a consistent answer against his jaguar kicks, they tend to hit very close to the ground so it’s seldom worth trying to go under them with c.mk and c.mp.
Generally I try to neutral jump, or backdash them and punish with c.hk or b+mk depending on how much time I have.
You can also knock him out of it if you do a pre-emptive st.mk.

  • His st.hk can be punished easily with Chun st.hp, you can even punish it with b+mk pretty easily if you have good reactions.

  • For this matchup I try to establish a ranged fireball game, because his jump is very short you have a bit more space to play with than in other matchups.
    You can punish all of his attempts trying to go over it with st.mk, at worst he does air jaguar and if you time st.mk right you will recover before him even if he makes it whiff.

  • Chun does have the advantage on mid/far range, the problem is that once Adon is in, it’s very hard for Chun to recover from that situation, so you can’t let that happen.

  • His wakeup is strange compared to others so it’s better to use meaty kikoukens to try and push him back, or going for a frame trap rather than a jump setup.

  • If he is running U1 then you better stop using fireballs when he’s got it, because it -will- punish any fireball you throw.
    You can bait it with kikouken x fadc backwards, but only if you’re confident they will be able to react to the fireball.

  • This is a U2 matchup, he doesn’t juggle from U1 and you have a hard time punishing anything he does with U1. You’re very unlikely to have charge when you hit a ch st.mp against him.

I’d rate this a 4-6 matchup, it’s difficult, but definitely not unwinnable.


#9

I think this is an interesting point. I think it is a viable mind-game to take advantage of Adon if he is looking for fireballs to Ultra. As a Chun player, I notice that waiting to Ultra punish a fireball takes a fair bit of attention away from other aspects of the fight. I tend to restrict my own Ultra use to punishing fireballs in familiar, or predictable, situations - otherwise it is a drain on my mental resources. This must also be true of Characters like Adon, Abel, etc.

Most of my fireball game is predictable-- predictable spacing, predictable timing-- because that’s how I know if someone is reading me or if I need to adjust. When I notice Adon players change (e.g., become suddenly less aggressive), it might be right to assume they are waiting for a fireball. I have successfully used this to my advantage to approach them with dash to create an offense. This is just an opening that is occasionally there.


#10

Adon - Solid Disadvantage

It doesn’t feel like this should be a bad match for her, but the more you play it the more you realize Adon just has a leg up on her. I’m not a big fan of Kikoken in this matchup - while you may be able to use it at full or 3/4ths screen if Adon isn’t U1, any closer and he has plenty of ways around them, and whatever you were trying to do by throwing it won’t really be worth it if he gets around it, even if you do have time to block. And once he does have U1 you’ll have to change your gameplan anyway. Mid range is a poke war and one of the only areas Chun can claim strength in this match. Like Skatan said you can counter-poke him but it will take some good reactions.

Close range is all Adon. Thanks to Rising Jaguar being a pretty good DP she can’t really run her offense on him too much, and he’s got plenty of frame traps, a good nj attack, a good crossup, and generally a lot of good ways to stump her.

Also she doesn’t really have a good answer for Jaguar Kick. Airborne ones she can counter with FA or duck under with c.mp/mk, but grounded ones she can’t really do much about. Try to limit use of sweep in this match as it’s easy for Adon to tag Chun with a Jaguar Kick if she was trying a mid-range sweep. Sometimes c.hp works but it’s not a stat I would rely on.

My approach to this match is similar to Cammy - hit and run. If you can keep him out all round, great. But I don’t think she can, and once Adon gets in he can take back whatever poke damage you did to him in a hurry. Try to find your spots to get in and do some damage. And try to read the Adon player - making him whiff DPs will be the best opportunity Chun gets for taking big chunks of damage from him. If he does miss a DP make sure you take max damage from him, don’t just sweep or throw.

Neutral jumps can help her in the neutral game, especially if your Adon player likes to take to the air often. I don’t recommend doing it often (this applies to any strat, really) but you can control the sky a bit with her nj.rh and if you hit nj.fp or even j.fp this can lead to extra damage, and she needs to maximize every opportunity she gets.

U1 uses in this match are to take away Jaguar Tooth and to punish whiffed Jaguar Kicks/possibly Rising Jaguar. Neither happen that often (depending on the distance a blocked/whiffed Rising Jaguar sometimes puts Adon on the other side of Chun) so U1 doesn’t have much impact on the overall matchup. This is, for me, definitely a U2 matchup as the name of her game here is to maximize every damage-taking situation, and it can be a big help if she lands a random c.lk and can convert that into EX Legs. Also Chun doesn’t need to be sitting down that often in this match.

Solid disadvantage, but not one of her worst matches. She can win but she’s got to be on point with her defense and bait the Adon player out into giving her chances to hit him.


#11

Please tell me how to beat akuma lol


#12

I’ll wait for Skatan to start the Akuma convo.

The preview though, is to stay on your feet and pray for a miracle.


#13

The Akuma matchup is almost a book by itself -_-

Some general things that help though is b+mk is a great whiff punish against c.hk, using meaty kikouken into hk hazanshu afterwards deals respectable damage and builds meter.
When you get swept you better be aware of what options you have, I prefer using os block/lk hazanshu since it blocks palm, gets reset by kick and punishes throw when timed right.

Jump back fireballs need to be chased so that you make sure he gets pushed back fast from doing it, you can more often than you think do dash, walkup c.hk when he does a jump back.
Even if you trade it’s still in your favour, and it’s better than blocking it.

I don’t use any regular standing anti-airs in this matchup, it’s just never worth it. If he does demonflip you want to dash under him if you can, otherwise meet him with j.hp in the air.
If he is regular jumping towards you, try to get behind him and punish with c.mk, c.lp, st.hp or cl.hk if he did an air fireball.

If you use focus backdash fast then you can punish c.hk x demon with U1 after your backdash finishes, it has come in handy many times.

U1 can be used to punish all of his fireballs, c.hk on block when he doesn’t have ultra, and air fireballs.
It’s also not uncommon to land ch st.mp, u1 when you have charge in this matchup, since he has to walk in far to tag Chun with c.hk.

Once you have Akuma in the corner, make sure you don’t let him escape (the most difficult part), but practice the situation many times and you’ll get the hang of it.


#14

I have used air throw with some success on reaction to demon flips, but once knocked down its an uphill battle


#15

And even then Chun has better options than a larger percentage of the cast against him on knockdown


#16

Akuma – Major Disadvantage

While this isn’t as bad as Blanka/T.Hawk or some of the other downright awful matches, it’s a very uphill struggle. Akuma just shits all over her. It’s a match that she never really gets to control and has to rely on precise reads, both offensively and defensively.

So the problems – she has no good answer for his jump-back fireball game. If thrown properly she can’t U1 through them. It’s difficult for her to pressure him on wakeup because he has a good DP and his back teleport is pretty much a get out of jail free card. She can punish with U1 but it requires pretty much anticipating the teleport and being ready for it, which also takes away some of her offensive options. And then there’s the Akuma vortex – while Chun isn’t as free to it as some other characters it’s still a bad situation where she can lose a lot of life on a bad guess, and a good guess merely just lets her live another day.

While Chun technically wins the neutral game, Akuma never really has to play it. As stated before she can’t deal with jump-back fireball well, and Akuma’s go-to footsie will be his sweep to get Chun on her back and set up his offense. Before Akuma has U1 Chun can try to counter his sweep with FA, her own sweep as a counter-poke, and it’s punishable on block with U1 and super. Once Akuma has U1 Chun can no longer use FA or U1 punish as Akuma can counter with his U1. As a strategy if Akuma is throwing a lot of air fireballs you can try to absorb a few and get Revenge Meter before he does, and look for a sweep U1 punish while he still doesn’t have his U1 available. Super however is a true punish for sweep that Akuma can do nothing about.

FA in general can be risky against Akuma, especially after he gets U1. Fortunately Chun is one of the characters against whom the second hit of Akuma’s f.rh whiffs on crouch block, so if your opponent goes for it and you just happened to be crouch blocking you get a free punish. Again this becomes less free once Akuma has U1 or Super, and some players will do the f.rh knowing you’re looking to punish and cancel into Demon.

If Akuma is jump-back fireballing be patient and drive him to the corner. Absorb fireballs while dashing forward and push the screen ahead. Get him into the corner, then make him work to get out. Having Akuma in the corner is the only semblance of an advantage Chun will have in this match so you should be taking some damage from him, if not (with any luck) establishing a huge life lead and/or just winning the round.

If Chun gets knocked down and has to deal with wakeup vortex use the block/Hasanshu OS that Skatan mentioned. Most of Akuma’s setups defeat EX SBK so don’t bother. Don’t panic on the wakeup offensive – if you have to just block whatever is coming and then pick your spot to reversal/escape later.

This is a match where Chun will really have to capitalize on Akuma’s mistakes. If you ever get a whiffed DP punish with whatever max damage punish you can do. Don’t bother going for a sweep/throw into setup because the chances of the setup leading to something better aren’t that great. Punish hard. Hit training room and learn exactly which air fireballs you can and can’t U1 punish. Watch the match carefully – your Akuma opponent may make a timing/placement mistake and you should punish them for it. Some Akuma’s may even do full-screen fireballs – make them pay for their mistake with dash U1.

You’ve probably already figured it out by now but this is definitely a U1 match. While he doesn’t corner juggle you need U1 to try and limit/regulate the fireball game, and as a potential sweep punish while Akuma doesn’t have any Demons available. Try to use FA absorbs so you get Ultra first. Also punish any whiffed DPs with Ultra if you have it – again, max damage whenever possible. Back teleport is U1 punishable but it requires Chun to be relatively close to him on wakeup while sitting on charge – easier said than done. But it is doable so it’s something to keep in mind and utilize if/when the situation presents itself.


#17

ok so rog, I tend to try and turtle him out using crmp and crmk if I expect turn/dash punches etc. I try to get super as quick as possible as I know it shuts down all his dash punches/uppers. StHp is a really good aa for me, close Hp seems to work well too. A personal problem for me is getting out of the habit of holding down-back during his pressure, I keep getting hit with overheads cause of my rubbish reactions


#18

A bit of recent Balrog discussion here. I agree with it for the most part.
From this post onwards:


#19

I feel Boxer is a 6-4 in Chun’s favour.

Dash punches can be dealt with by using focus dash into c.hp x legs or cl.hk x legs depending on how confident you are. EX Dash punches I still deal with in the same way as always, bait it and throw it.
Turn punches through fireballs can be tagged with ch st.mp into c.hk or U1.

St.hp is a great normal in the matchup, he can’t crouch under it and it whiffpunishes everything he has, it also works great as an anti air, I only use st.mk when he is jumping at me when I’m in the corner.

Mid to far range kikouken zoning works great in this matchup, learning how to play it is the bnb of the matchup.

j.hp~hp mixups work great against him on knockdown.

He has relatively weak punishes against hazanshu pressure compared to others.

Be mindful of overheads, it’s the only clutch move he has to steal wins with.

Chun’s walkspeed gives her a distinct upper hand when playing footsies.

C.hk can be punished with st.hp, c.hk and b+mk when you space correctly.


#20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rai4El1TJw

pretty good match that illustrates alot of the points