The David Sirlin Appreciation Thread/HDR is the Best Street Fighter Game Thread


#1

After extensive play of ST, HDR, and SSF4 I tried to play focusing heavily on the underlying game mechanics and mind games. I realized between the three that Sirlin is a genious when it comes to making and tweaking fighting games. HDR is by far the best version. Reading Sirlin’s notes on his website even further proves it. I first read the notes not thinking as deeply about them and now I realize just how good of a developer Sirlin is. If I say anything out of context or wrong then please correct me.

I thought easier reversals in SSF4 would make there be the same mind games but now new comers could participate in them. It turns out the large window takes out most mind games and baits are much easier to see. You don’t have to commit when the reversal window is that large and I remember Sirlin talking about this a while ago.

I like how Sirlin made some of the moves easier but not too easy. In ST sometimes I would have to concentrate on doing a move that would take me out of the thought process of the match. In HDR the moves are hard enough to do where you have to commit but not hard enough where you have to concentrate too much on the move. This includes Zangief’s SPD motion. Jodim lost a match to me in ST before because he jumped with fierce instead of doing an SPD because of how hard the move is. The best Zangief player I have played against losing a game over jumping instead of doing an SPD. I have seen him jump by accident a few times trying to do an SPD so this was not an extremely rare occurrence. SSF4 the motions are so easy that it leads to spammy gameplay in mid to low level players combined with the easier reversal windows. Also in high level players the slight amount of extra thinking with the moves being a little harder makes close baits more effective.

SSF4 jabs can lead to huge damage easily. This is absurd and Sirlin knew this right away. With plinking now one frame links are easier and a simple jab that is easy to land can now lead to a large ultra combo. Jabs are too safe for this and require not much commitment for this to be good.

Here is my opinion on ultras they can be done and can work for comeback purposes. If you miss an ultra there should be an extremely large amount of recovery like a dizzy amount. It will prevent them from just being throwing an ultra out. A character puts all their strength into a final ultra attack to comeback and if they miss they should be completely winded. HDR is currently the winner here because the ultra system right now is terrible in SSF4.

Back to ST some of the loops are just wrong and so are claws repeatable knockdown wall dives. I have seen top boxers from Japan get hit over five times in a row before and lose a round because of this. O Hawk may be fun to do his loop on someone but is not fun having it done to you. You should always have an option and not simply have to watch yourself losing for over ten seconds.

I have a lot more to say. I do not want to make this too long so I will discuss this more in the coming days in this thread. David Sirlin is a genious the deeper you think about fighting game mechanics and if he was given money to do more patches and further balancing then I feel he could make this game close to perfect. An example change I would do would be changing Zangief’s green hand motion so it will not overlap as much with his SPD as it currently does in HDR. Also for online a ranking system where there isn’t the someone gets on top and stops playing making new players unable to get that high would be nice. I just want to say thank you for the hours of fun gameplay you have given me with HDR and will write up more hopefully. Obviously thanks to the rest of the team although Sirlin was the guy with the vision.


#2

I do not think one needs to believe the game is the best SF (despite VST, there will always be HF for the older guys) to acknowledge he did OK. Discussing that SF is the best one is just an unnecessary topic, it will only make this yet another flame war thread. Not to mention the ones who play Alpha and think they are as good or better than OG SF (WTF???).


#3

While I’m unsure if you are genuine or being a troll (in which case good job), I have to give thanks to Sirlin for helping make this happen. I had a NES, SNES/MegaDrive, N64 and a big gap before I got a Wii/360 and PS3 (this was when I was fansubbing instead). As such, Super Turbo was never available on any of the old systems I owned, and the arcade scene is almost non existant. HDR was my first time playing ST (or what was previously ST), and I’m still playing it almost daily18 months on since release.

To me the input windows make no difference. I had always wanted to play ST, but I never had the chance to. I would have learned the game if it was just plain ST. The closest I got was Super on the SNES and it wasn’t very good.

So thanks to the team for putting out a good, responsive/input lag free port with decent net code.


#4

Zero to even consider this a troll thread shows you probably never really put much deep thought into fighting games which I felt from when I met you on Xbox Live. You have to take almost all of the options and possible outcomes into consideration.

To Old School BR obviously opinion based but some things are just clear cut such as with HDR. If you like hyper fighting for example then there is no one stopping you from making a hyper fighting thread in a hyper fighting forum.


#5

Hopefully I’m wrong, but I have a feeling this thread is gonna be serious flame bait.


#6

Atleast it’s here where nobody will see it instead of FGD.


#7

I’d like to re-direct everyone’s attention to this humorous nugget:


#8

LOL That was hilarious Noriega. Would be nice to see more characters like Akuma and Zangief. :rofl:

And Sirlin does deserve many thanks for the dedication and fierce commitment it took to get us this game. He has certainly done his part to contribute to the SF2 community, which is something a lot of haters can not match. So thank you David Sirlin, and thanks to the producers of the game Jimmy Rey, Seth Killian and the Capcom, Udon, Backbone, OCRemix staff involved in the game’s production.

And special thanks to Tony Cannon for contributing his GGPO know-how to the game’s netcode. It would undoubtedly be a worse online game without his contribution.


#9

Nice.


#10

The HDR community I hate 50% and the other half I like. I actually expected to see people who lie about liking this game with passion actually show it but I was wrong again. It is strange how those bad 50% are some of the most annoying gamers I have ever happened to encounter. The good 50% like blitzfu are legit and I commend them for it. That being said for the good 50% I have some more below and for the bad 50% stay fake.

Air throws did not get an overhaul in HDR like in SSF4. When you get air thrown in HDR it is well deserved most of the time and SSF4 it is just ridiculous. Some of the air throws in SSF4 just have insane priority and throw range. Instead of air to air, an air throw is good enough where you can be jumping in on someone and the jumps are so floaty that they have enough time to jump off the ground and air throw your jump in. Option selects, EX reversals, air throws, back dashes just make the game extremely defensive. This really hurts pressuring.

Basically the wake up game in SSF4 is awful and instead of now gambling in your favor when pressuring an opponent waking up like in HDR it is in no ones favor. The health bars are larger and all of this makes the game extremely defensive where offense is rewarded less than defense quite often.

I am glad HDR added nothing like a focus attack. It really hurts the game. A system like parries works because there is not one parry for almost all attacks involving little guessing. You have to actually guess where the attack is coming from with a parry. If someone is being predictable it can be punished where as a focus attack can be spammed. It is hardly doing much predicting because it can be back dashed so easily without much punish because many armor break moves usually come out slow.

HDR did a really good job taking randomness out of it that was in earlier versions. This includes the moves and everything is much more precise now.

My bash on third strike is how uncompetitive most of the characters are. Sirlin proved in many tournaments that even Fei Long is now competitive. How many tournaments do you see Sean or Twelve do well in?

HDR also does quarter rooms well. SSF4 endless is annoying to watch matches and wait in line because the matches take so long and it takes a while to start the match up. This was one of the best things about HDR and does not seem to work well with SSF4 due to the sheer amount of time it takes.

Also in SSF4, the jumps go too fast on the way up and too slow and floaty on the way down. Third strike does not feel this floaty yet it has a better juggle system than SSF4.

Let me see some more from you guys possibly comparing this to other street fighter games like the alpha series. Other street fighters have their merits, although the HDR that Sirlin developed comes out on top.


#11

:lol: at focus attack spamming.

Maybe at full screen.


#12

I think we’re all interested to hear about who you dislike, bro. That’d make for a cool story. Moving on…

HDR has the best engine of any SF game. The only legitimate complaint about HDR is that it still needs more balancing. As for IV? It is much more balanced but it is also DIFFERENT. Sure, I don’t like focus attacks either; however, they open up some great combo possibilities. Did you consider that? Yes, the jumping system sucks in IV as do AA moves. Its a game made for CASUAL players that can appeal to the hardcore. Why?

  1. Reversals can be done easily at 100% or a bit lower
  2. 100% Wake-ups
  3. Grapplers are easy to use, simple to mash 360
  4. You can avoid fireballs much easier due to the jump, less of an emphasis on zoning with projectiles
  5. Some very retarded recovery and safe properties
  6. Revenge moves don’t reward offense

Stick to HDR and GGPO like the rest of us, and play IV on the side.


#13

Yeah, if you actually are the type to read and post on the HDR subforum, I think you’re pretty much preaching to the choir on this one, but I think a well meant thank you thread is never a bad idea.

Go David Sirloin, your Yomi level is so high, you knew they were going to make the best intro movie ever three weeks before they did, but you still can’t figure out why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. (If you haven’t seen Super Norcal Regionals 2010 Intro to the HDR Finals… GO DO IT NOW!!!)


#14

The details can be debated (and have been) enough already, but I definitely sign for David Sirlin (and everyone else involved with getting HDR out) appreciation, and I also think despite it’s remaining flaws HDR is, overall, the best fighting game made so far. I always say it’s a crying shame Capcom don’t give it the after support it deserves. With just a few more tweaks it could easily be practically flawless. But of course, there’s no (short term) money in it for them. I just wish Capcom wasn’t so short-sighted though.


#15

that’s an easy solution. just go clockwise 360 facing right and counterclockwise 360 facing left. the banishing hand shouldn’t ever come out. if you want changes, better netcode would solve a lot of existing problems with remix especially in reversal situations. fix sim’s reversal teleport and add a couple of active frames to hawk’s 360. also, quick search shouldn’t randomly give you ST or remix matches and you should be able to create akuma-less rooms.

this is all way off point. i do love this game and much appreciation goes out to sirlin for something as entertaining as remix. too bad it’s dying off.


#16

i love ST and HDR, same feeling for both versions.

IMO:

i have to say i like the way how sirlin made justice to characters like ken(making ken a really good character). i don’t usually play ken in ST because his nerfed srks, and i have to stick to honda or deejay, but in hdr,all srk versions are so useful even tatus are useful now!

So thanks sirlin for this awesome remixed and well balanced game.

I have SFIV and just bought it because of hype, but i don’t really enjoy it, i mean, is a cool game but is not a real SF game.


#17

This tread is a bit over the top…

Is HDR the best SF? That is a matter of personal opinion.

I think HDR is a fun game but it has its own set of problems like any other SF.


#18

Maybe it is a bit over the top. But at least its a bit over the top in the positive as opposed to the normal flame hate thread… I’ll take more love and less hate any day of the week…


#19

Every company I buy fighting games from owes their sale to Sirlin. HDRemix got me into fighting games. I had always been intimidated by the complex moves and motions and stuff (I thought dragon punch motions were IMPOSSIBLE at first lol). Sirlin’s design philosophy really made me open my mind and try the genre, and now it’s my favorite.


#20

Fatboy said it best.

I personally think it is a great game, but depending on what characters you play, your perception of its flaws change.

We can only hope that one day there will be one last balance patch, or that the roms are turned over to the game community. Sadly, I doubt this will ever happen.