The Dying Hawk (T. Hawk emergency! Q.Q)

Hello again my name is Zega and i been maining T. hawk for about 3 months now ever since i got the game. I was introduced to the SSF4 community by a good friend of mine that has been on the scene for quiet some time. I am new to the official competitve enviorment and am branching out further than just my local scene.

Yestarday after he beat me 10 times in a row with vega he said i will never be a good SSF4 player because i can not beat a good player, and am far to use to scrubs

Reason being is i can’t really win without hawk unless i use his U1 or reversals, he basically told me i mash way to much and will always beat xbox scrubs but be frequently defeated on the tourny scene.

I was just wondering how i can play T. Hawk effictivly without looking like a srub and mashing ultra, i don’t really know what to do on block strings except either just block or reversal so i normally get caught in mix up’s a lot. Also tick throwing is really hard for me and i guess i just have a bad hawk in genearl. (I looked at the T. Hawk threads and they didn’t really help me that much :c sry guys)

I was wondering how i can prevent playing like this before i quit T. Hawk for good.

I’m thinking of quiting T. hawk because i feel like the way i play him has ruined my fundementals and has effected my ability to be a good Street fighter player.

I sorta had this problem when I picked up hawk. After people got used to hawk, winning became a real biznitch! But I stuck with him. First off, I’d say work on your defense. That means do not automatically mash reversal typhoon. There are times when u can do that but u have to condition ur opponent not to jump or bait ur throw. Also learn how to crouch tech effectively. There are good videos on YouTube called 3 minute fundamentals. Check those out. Hmmm also learn hawks normals. He has exceptional normals. Learn how to properly poke and counter poke. Try reading the footsies handbook. Very useful. I don’t claim to be a master hawk but I’ve beaten some good players. Mind you it’s usually in casual play not in tournament. But beating them at all is a triumph in itself.

Btw. I love playing hawk but he isn’t tournament viable. I’m sure people will disagree but that’s just my opinion. From what I’ve seen, the tourney scene is all about getting the win. So most of the time you’ll play people who zone really well and will lame it out if they have to. So you’ll be working twice as hard while they just sit back on their life lead. Not to say u can’t win but it will require you be at the top of ur game and even then people can still counter pick blanka for an easier win.

well dude, let me tell you first that there are times when you SHOULD mash reversals and typhoon, and lots of time when you SHOULD NOT mash. learning when and when not to mash comes with experience, so i would say the most important thing to do is to play more, and ACTIVELY think about every situation that you are put into. look for patterns from each opponent you play. over a longer period of time, you will notice general tendencies of certain characters, and will be able to counter them with command grabs and uppercuts more effectively.

and like jp cash said, learn hawk’s normals. all tweleve of his ground normals are useful for footsies at different ranges. learn these ranges, and which normals to use in which matchups. there are some matchups, for example, where your goal is to zone the opponent instead of grabbing them. if you play against zangief, you really should never be close enough for a command grab. instead, you should keep him away the whole time with stand roundhouse, and then standing jabs and medium punch if he gets too close.

now, no one can really tell you exactly what move to do at any given moment in a matchup, you must learn this on your own through experience. so really, the most valuable thing i can tell you is to actively try to think about these things every time you play. that’s the only way to get better. remember that street fighter is a competitive mental game of reactions and strategy, and you will always win if you can read and react to your opponent better than he can do to you.

oh, and learn how to play mind games with condor dive (whiff, not whiff, cross ups etc.), that’s useful as well hahah

fist of all your friend is picking on you.
hawk is easy bait for vega. ( hell, he is easy bait for half of the cast ).
i’m sticking with him also because in AE version he will be better.

what you have to learn with hawk is use a lot of normals.
don’t jump in to much because his jump in moves are rubish exept for mk and hk.
you wanna use jump in hk on a good distance, mk is for mid range use and jump then down hp is for very close and cross ups.
don’t rely on typhoon use it in surprise and it will work beter.
and you don’t have to do a full 360 just hold your stick left or right then circle down back and till jump and press punch.
so it’s a half circle till jump forward or backward and punch is enough.
use a lot of standing mp and crounching mk.
and use combo’s and don’t grab too much because it misses most of the time.
let your opponent know you play combo’s and then when he thinks that way, grab the hell out of him.

What exists in anything you are trying to learn is “the wall.”

The wall exists when you advance points of play which are Elementary-Intermediate-Advanced

You are most likely trying to transition into one of the new stages of learning your character. The hardest part about it is going from stage to stage.

The biggest thing I can say is don’t get discouraged about losing. Try to avoid the idea that you are a lesser player because you loss a match.

Losing sucks but you have to try to learn from each of your losses.

I can’t really say what you are doing “wrong” without looking at replays.

Hit me up on XBL if you want and I can look at your replays and i’ll show you mine so we can compare. Find some and save them. Wins you thought you did really well in and losses. You can learn something from wins and losses.

To the Original Poster:

Please stick with T. Hawk. I know it’s hard out there seeing as there are not too many of us from what I’ve seen, but the only way you and probably the rest of us will get better is if we have a community of Hawks. That way there is (hopefully) more exchanging of information among the masses so we can bring in the Hawk Revolution. And if you stick with playing T. Hawk I believe you become a much better player in general because you really have to rely a lot on your use of general basics and his basics which can carry over to other characters you may potentially want to learn. Also I don’t know whom all may have read this, but did anyone notice the article recently posted on the Japanese Character Power Rankings? The Hawk was at the top of the list for biggest win streak.

I saw the win streak list - KoujiKOG 103 wins.

As for your point about what it does to your game I feel my use of normals, spacing and defence are better for using Hawk without question.

And that’s what the fuck I’m talking about. I was reading the comments after the article, and there were quite a few haters knocking the Hawk. It makes me happy because I read so much bashing on our mains. I’m also really looking forward to the new ranking system when AE hits consoles.

Yeah i switched to my alt character cody to see what the problem was and come to find out. the only reason i’ve won with HAWK so far is because i mashed his grabs and SRK when i don’t hav these options i feel apart with my cody because i rely on mashign to greatly and i often found myself on the wrong end of cody’s ultra 2 because i kept mashing that to early as well…ga i feel like i’m gonna hav to reinvent the entire way i play or else i’ll be stuck as a scrub forever.

Well with an attitude like that you certainly will be :slight_smile: Don’t get down on yourself too much. We all have to work on things at some point and time and maybe this is just something you have to work on to get better. Trust me there was a standstill where I felt that what I was doing wasn’t good enough, and I didn’t even know what my next step was. At least you know yours. You just have to practice it. I’m gonna give some advice and you can take it with however many grains of salt you’d like, but you should work on refining your inputs by practicing your 360 precision and when it’s appropriate to do them in a given situation. Also for later when/if you get around to it, try to figure out options that you can use in particular character or general scenario situations whether it be a counter attack, a set up for a counter attack, or things to improve your spacing. Also you should know all your punishers to make your opponent think twice about doing certain attacks or zoning tactics again. So don’t worry man you’ll get there! Until then hit the dojo and maybe I’ll see you online. Peace!

Here’s my general strategy for T. Hawk.

  1. Wait patiently. Let them come to you. If they use a fireball character neutral jump their fireballs/Focus Attack them to build meter.

  2. As soon as they clip up and you see an opportunity arise, get in there with that xx Tomahawk Buster.

  3. Stay on them. Use cross ups and non cross ups to mix up your pressure game. From my experience T. Hawk is great at keeping pressure.

  4. Here’s where mixups come in. Mix up your blockstrings with tick throws. Against characters with counters like Dudley or Gouken I find mixing up empty jump ins with meaty jumping d+HPs to be very effective.

I hope this helped at least a little. I’m not a great T. Hawk player, but I do have SOME experience.

Learning another Character actually makes your main better =/

use a lot of cross ups against charge charakters, it works wonders.
and sometime give them some cr lp pokes and do a cross up that won’t cross up, very funny to bait them.
mix the pokes up with some grabs, you see it will work now because they are concentrating on blocking you.

@ Zega

Regardless of which character you use you need to learn the general unwritten rules of most good street fighter players:

  1. Learn to block. plain and simple. every character needs to be able to, every PLAYER need to be able to. do it. if you have to, just go into endless matches and dont attack. just sit there and see how long you can last. block crossups. learn to read fake crossups. block all jump ins. crouch tech vs tick throws. learn how to defend yourself. mashing SPD is NOT defending yourself.

  2. Dont jump if you dont have to. plain and simple. if you dont have to jump, dont. Stay grounded as much as you can. especially with Hawk. youre not chun.

  3. learn your matchups first. combos second. wtf good is knowing godlike combos / setups, if you cant get in vs guile / sagat. learn youre movement vs each character. learn how to approach them. learn how to deal with their reversals on wakeup.

there are other things of course, but i honestly believe those are the most important. yes, youre playing hawk. yes, most characters are going to run like little bitches. yes youre going to get zoned out. deal with it. if people are doing blockstring on you, youre not instilling fear in them. people shouldnt be rushing down hawk honestly (MAYBE a very select few, if any).

and by the way, youre “friend” isnt really a good friend to you if he got you into street fighter and isnt helping you out. considering you said hes been playing competitively for a while, he should know a thing or two. Hell, i just got a friend of mine into street fighter over christmas break. I play with him every day, I teach him what he can and cant do. I help him as much as I can.

by the way, your “friend” also isnt a real FRIEND if hes using Vega against you when he knows you dont know wtf youre doing. hes just cheesing to either 1) make himself feel godlike. or 2) to make you feel free. or both. if he knows you arent that great he should put himself at a disadvantage to try and help you out and to help you learn how to approach without constantly having a claw in your mouth. Hes honestly not doing you any favors. If anything, hes just causing you more frustration. seriously, thats almost like if im learning the game and im barely learning how to play with makoto, and a friend of mine comes over and just ass rapes me with cammy / rufus and doesnt tell me anything other than " uhh you suck bro. lol gg. "

sorry for the rant, just my two cents.

i cross ups so much against vega that i got a rage quit.
almost 2 perfect.
the first round he hit me once or twice so was the second round.
when it was almost game over that guy rage quited.
he was b ranked vega, so i think he should know the match up better.

so cross up against your so called buddy vega has no uppercut.

Let me tell ya, there have been numerous times where I’ve considered dropping the big guy for either someone more mobile or someone more tournament viable. That being said, those people who underestimate Hawk will eventually regret it.

That being said, methinks you’ve hit a wall, and that’s a good thing. It means you’re improving. Stick it out. T. Hawk has some really bad match-ups, and so you may need to take more time to learn those. Work on your footsies, along with your mixup game. In the end, you’ll break through that wall. :smiley:

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

To add to This_is_K1’s rules, here are a couple more that will help develop your play:

  1. Learn to punish. Even if it’s a jump-in, a Psycho Crusher, or a simple poke, make sure that the opponent feels any mistake he/she makes. Look for punishing with high damage or optimum positioning. If you’re punishing pokes, make sure it will either trade in your favor, stop the opponent’s move completely, or hide your distance so you can move to an advantageous position.

For example:
Ryu does wake-up uppercut w/ 70% health. You have many options for punishment (Ultra 1/2, Stand MP – Uppercut, Duck HK, etc.), but, considering his health at the moment, you should take the positioning approach (LP SPD). From there you have a strong cross-up game that can take his life bar down even further or entice another uppercut.

Basically, know how to punish even the smallest mistakes, and know when to make it hurt or make it your advantage.

  1. Understand the distance of every one of T. Hawk’s moves. Players will be inclined to abuse certain ranges against T. Hawk because of the weakness of his anti-airs and use of footsies, so you should always be prepared to put yourself in the optimum range for your attacks to remain effective.

For example:
T. Hawk’s far Standing MK goes over low attacks for a clean hit. It’s your job to know the range where you can press the button and stuff the attack, and, if the opponent doesn’t attack, the range where he/she can’t punish it if you miss.

This also applies to special moves such as EX Spire which is effective at eliminating footsies and great for punishing backdashers.

  1. Lastly, learn how every character works. You should know that Ibuki’s QCB+K move does not combo on block after the second hit, so you should be landing SPDs if the opponent does it too close, and you should be taking advantage when they stop doing further hits because you have punished accordingly.

That’s all I can think of for now. Make sure you learn to use T. Hawk’s normals because they are super strong! I’ve saved so much meter against players that backdash on wakeup by just walking forward and hitting Stand MP. And his jabs are priceless :smiley:

Hope this helps!