The Fall Down and Get Back Up Guide for Beginners


#1

Unofficial Guide To Counter Moves, Tactics and Attacks For Beginners

Like many of the new guys on here, I’ve returned to Street Fighter 2 after playing it on the consoles during the Genesis Vs Super Nintendo days (which is a pretty long time to be away from the game). We didn’t have the internet to rely on or videos to look at. We had the GamePro tv show, maybe an EGM/GameFanwith some tips and tricks, and a strategy guide if you could find one.

Nowadays, we have SRK, youtube, and google for most of our resources … but there are still questions that should simply have answers but can’t be found easily because of the amount of depth for Super Turbo. Questions that may be deemed too “newbie” for most, but questions that still need answers. Take for instance this thread (I’m sure I’ve made a few threads myself that were similar):
General Tips when facing a decent/good Guile

So I wanted to create this thread if it was ok … where newbies (and even non-noobs if they want), could ask “simple questions” that have been troubling them with general questions that aren’t character specific. For instance, would that question be suitable in the Guile thread? Or would it be suitable for the character that they’re playing as? Maybe it could be, but I’m not sure if it’s “wanted” within those threads. It would be great to have a “worry-free” thread where you can ask a question and get an answer to it.

I will update the original post with the questions that have been asked and answers that have been given. This way, all you need to do is scan the table of contents to find the answer (I’ll try my best to update the table of contents). Now, if there’s already been a thread like this, point me to it, but it seems like a good idea since there will still be some new players flowing to HD Remix. And if a mod thinks this is a bad idea, lock it and delete it for me. Thanks!

And I hope this thread ends up being useful.

** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- **
** TABLE OF CONTENTS **
** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- **

How can I approach a Guile that throws Sonic Booms without running into a flashkick:r:
Thelo:snka:, gridman:snkb:, FreshOJ:snkc:

Followup question: How do I approach projectile characters without getting hit by an anti-air attack?:r:
FreshOJ :snka:

What direction do I block Chunli’s neckbreaker? :r:
RickClops :snka:

What is the timing on button releases for reversals? :r:
FreshOJ :snka:, minty:snkb:, FreshOJ:snkc:

Can you tell me more about reversals? When do I start the motion for my reversal special move?:r:
FreshOJ :snka:

What about reversal throws? Will a person using turbo beat me out?:r:
FreshOJ:snka:

How do I counter basic tick throws like jab>throw?:r:
sleepernoob:snka:, FreshOJ:snkb:

What does priority/high priority mean? How does a hitbox affect crossups?:r:
Coth_X:snka:, AckuX:snkb:, FreshOJ:snkc:, FreshOJ:snkd:

Can you tell me EVEN MORE about this thing called priority?:r:
Coth_X:snka:, Acku:snkb:, FreshOJ:snkc:, Coth_X:snkd:, ratman:snka:, R|C:hp:

Can Akuma tick throw his demon? Or is holding up an option as long as you aren’t crouching?:r:
FreshOJ:snka:

Does Zangief have anything that can interrupt Balrog’s dashing punches?:r:
FreshOJ:snka:, Snatcher:snkb:

Can you help me with linking into combos after my jumpin attack?:r:
minty:snka:

How futile is the matchup between Fei Vs Honda?:r:
Shari:snka:, minty:snkb:

What is counter picking?:r:
FreshOJ:snka:

Can someone help me zone using a fireball trap? (Ryu, but general enough for other shotos):r:
FreshOJ:snka:

** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- **
** Threads I’ve found that can be helpful and may have been skipped **
(try to keep posts in their topic and not this one)
** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- **

**Can you help me with my defense? (How to control space, using defense as your offense, about using normals) **:r:
jchensor:snka:, jchensor:snkb:, SweetJohnnyV:snkc:

An article about the difference between losing and being beaten:r:
(there’s a bunch of these in the Domination 101 forum, easily missed)

** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- **
** Questions that haven’t been answered yet** **
** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- **


KEYWORDS FOR THREAD SEARCHES
ssf2thdr hdr remix learn approach tactics reversals counters linking priority
basics


#2

I’ll start the thread off with this question:

What is the proper direction to block when I see Chunli do her neckbreaker? Does it matter what direction she is facing when she’s in the air? If I’m on the left side and she’s on the right side, what direction should my dpad/joystick be pointing to so that I don’t get knocked down?

(these are the questions I can see being asked because it’s hard to test by yourself without another controller … or against the CPU who just does random things in training)


#3

I think the question you really want to ask is, where is Chun Li’s hitbox on that move?

The answer…display hitboxes in training mode and you’ll see it. See the hitbox as it relates to where she is and you’ll be able to figure out how to block it. The same concept applies to any attack, whether it’s crossing up or not.

Learning this game isn’t just about getting answers to specific questions. It’s about learning how to reason out the questions that you have and making educated guesses. You learn more and you learn faster that way.


#4

Block the same way you would if she was doing any other attack, neckbreaker doesn’t cross up in HDR.

You can tell if Guile has a flashkick charged if he’s ducking. Either watch for him to stop ducking or maybe distance yourself so that you jump in sort of close, but not close enough to be hit with a flash kick.


#5

Dont be fooled by brians trick with guile that ALWAYS gets me where he whiffs cr.fp with guile (to make it look like hes standing when in reality hes getting a charge for a FK) and then flash kicsk when you jump :frowning:


#6

Basically speaking, there are two specific instances where it’s guaranteed that Guile doesn’t have a Flash Kick charged:

  1. Up to 53 frames from the frame that Guile starts throwing a Sonic Boom.
  2. He’s walking forward.

However, the only guaranteed time to hit Guile cleanly is during the 30 frames of the Sonic Boom animation (provided that your character’s vulnerable boxes aren’t overlapping with the Sonic Boom, of course). Otherwise, don’t forget that he still has st.:mp:, cl.:mk:, cl.:hp:, cr.:hp:, cl.:hk:, and st.:hk: as anti-air attacks. Getting around the Flash Kick is one thing. Getting around cr.:hp:? That’s when you’re doing something.


#7

By the way, I would change that first question to, “How do I approach projectile characters without getting hit by an anti-air attack?”

The simple answer: Hit them while they are either starting to throw the projectile before it comes out or hit them while they are recovering from throwing the projectile.

Done. Simple.

Just keep in mind, though, that everybody’s not crazy enough to brainlessly throw projectiles…especially if they’ve eaten enough dizzy combos, redizzy combos, and Touch of Death combos from having people jump over their predictable projectiles and combo the snot out of them.


#8

When going for a reversal, do i need to press and release the p/k buttons during the upside down part of the get up animation, or as their feet hit the ground? I have a habit trying to reverse right as they get up, but I’m not sure if thats when the button needs to be pressed?


#9

Ok…now that we’re getting some questions, I’m going to strive even more to be both technical and practical. Remember, behind all of the pictures and the sounds, this is just a computer program, so the more technically adept you are, the easier these concepts will be to understand.

Anyhow, this question covered both in the Shoryuken.com Wiki (http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki) and, most notably, in David Sirlin’s SSF2T Tutorial (http://www.sirlin.net/).

The “reversal window” or “reversal frame” is always going to be the very last animation frame of an invulnerable state before transitioning into a neutral state. In English, that’s the very last frame of your character’s getting up animation, the very last frame of your character’s landing from aerial hit-stun, the very last frame of your character’s grounded hit stun animation, and the very last frame of your character’s block stun animation.

With that said, look at your question again. Did you see that you actually typed the answer? :slight_smile: The answer would be…right when their feet hit the ground…because that’s usually right before your character will go into their neutral fighting stance. That particular answer isn’t precise for everyone, so your best course of action would be to get very familiar with your character’s “getting up” animation so that you can learn the timing for yourself.

The best way of spotting the reversal frame? Record your character being knocked down and then getting back up (without touching the joystick or the buttons) and then look at the getting up animation, frame by frame. That’s what David Sirlin did in his tutorial. Also, remember that button presses and releases counts as two separate inputs for special moves. That was also pointed out in his tutorial. I’d watch the tutorial, if I were you.


#10

I did, but even doing that hasn’t helped my reversals any better. Its probably online, ill do more in training.

That’s why I said press and release, cause ive seen the video twice.


#11

You might be doing it too early/too fast. I know when I was first starting, I always rushed it because of the “oh no” factor of seeing someone about to do a crossup or combo as they were right on top of my character. If you know you can do that move 100% of the time (when it’s not reversal time), then you know it’s about your timing. If you’re not consistent with that reversal move, then it’s about your motion and this means you’re probably rushing it.

It’s hard to practice reversals during game matches because it’s too frustrating against the advanced players. What I do is go into Training Mode and play against Ken. He always does the tatsu into dp if he’s got a corner lockdown on you. Sometimes it will dizzy, sometimes it will knock you down. You can practice reversals then (find a character that has quick knockdowns for your character). Or you can just jump up and down and when you land, practice the “reversal move” right when you touch ground. It’s not perfect, but it helps you with timing. After that, try watching your getting up animation and figure out when you think you should be starting the motion.


#12

It’s pretty much established that timing reversals online isn’t consistent due to the lag issues. That’s why there’s been a lot of talk about “pianoing” reversals.

Practice doing reversals offline first. That should at least help your online execution.

But in either case, if you can see the reversal frame, then you should be able to time your execution properly. It’s actually a lot like linking non-rapid fire normal attacks together. When you’re first learning the link, you have to see the instant that your character goes back into their neutral crouching or standing state and time your button press so that they spend as little time as possible sitting there and more time doing the next attack that you want so that the two attacks will combo. Once you can see it happening, you get a feel for the timing. Once you learn the timing, you become consistent.


#13

I’m tired of people complaining about tick throws so here’s my contribution.

Q: How do I counter basic tick throws like jab>throw?

A: Three choices: Reversal, Throw, or Jab back.

  1. Reversal - The hardest to do but it’s the most reliable. I wouldn’t recommend doing this if you can’t pull it off consistently.

  2. Throw (Hold Back and mash MP/FP)- As they are about to jab you, you can throw them before their jab hits. If you can’t reversal constantly this is the safer option. If you timed it wrong, you’ll tech their throw or maybe even throw them back.

If you block the jab you can still throw them before they throw you. It depends on how fast your oppenent timed their throw.

  1. Jab - Depending on how fast the player throws, if they timed their throw off you can mash a jab attack before they throw you. This is also an easy way for new players to avoid tick throws.

So there you go. Three ways to get out of basic tick throws. Nothing is cheap about them. If you’re still getting thrown around, you can tech the throws which greatly reduces the damage.

As for getting out of command tick throws like Giefs SPD, Honda’s Throw, or THawk. You HAVE to reversal them. Sometimes you can jump out of them but against really good players you won’t.


#14

I’m just wondering, when do you start your motion for i.eg SRK against Honda’s throw after that jump forward with the ass or Gief’s banishing flat ?


#15
  1. What about those ‘priorities’ and ‘high priority moves’. Does that exist, or is it always a matter of overlapping hitboxes, unrelated to what move it actually is? Because how I see it, nothing has priority over another, it just looks like it because of bigger offensive hitboxes and/or smaller defensive ones. Chuns J LK would then just be a move with a very hard to hit blue hitbox. I find the term confusing.

  2. The hitbox on crossup explanation thing here confuses me too. I dont think it matters where a hitbox is in order to block it, only what direction YOU are facing, which dictates what your blocking direction will be. This does evoke a question: what is the default way to block a cross-up? I cant notice direction switches so fast when their timing is narrow, so is just holding back first, then forward for the rest the best guess? Or do people mostly cross-over first (make you swiutch viewing direction) and then land their aerial attack?


#16

Well priority kind of exists, one example would be ken vs. boxer. Normally ken’s cr.mk is his best poke. However, vs. boxer, ken’s cr.mp beats boxers dashes period. You can actually just rapid press it, while holding db. Beating his dashes to the punch. Its not fullproof, but cr.mk tends to get hit clean, whereas cr.mp tends to hit the dashes clean.


#17

Or it exists, or it doesn’t. The way I tend to see it, the first one to get a frame where his red hitbox overlapping with the others blue one, gets the hit. If both players get it at the same frame, it is a trade, where the strength of the hit defines the outcome difference.
This ofcourse has nothing to do with ‘priority’, only with speed, range and defense of a move.

In your example that would mean that the C. MP hits Balrog faster than balrog hits your defense. Likely due to the blue one of Ken being more backward than in his C MK version


#18

Priority definitely exists, otherwise the term wouldn’t still be used. Remember: Street Fighter 2: The World Warrior came out in 1991. It’s been a while.

The reason why priority exists is because there are two boxes at work: hit boxes and vulnerable boxes. Anybody wanna guess why Dragon Punches are high-priority? You guessed it! No vulnerable boxes! :slight_smile: Ken’s strong DP will be nothing but a big hitbox on the way up. So, if you have a move with a hitbox that can reach your opponent’s vulnerable boxes before their hitboxes can reach your vulnerable boxes, your move will take priority and beat your opponent’s move. If your hitboxes reach their vulnerable boxes at the same time that their hitboxes reach your vulnerable boxes…VOILA!..you have a trade!

Remember, folks, behind all of the pictures and sounds, this is still a computer program. That’s why Sirlin’s tutorial on “Controlling Space” tells you to think in terms of boxes.

First off, not to sound superior by any means, but if you don’t know how to block crossups, then it should be reasonable to say that you don’t know how they work. Wouldn’t you agree?

In one aspect, you’re right, it does matter which way you’re facing, but the true question is…how do you know what direction you’ll be facing when the crossup hits? The hit box of the move in relation to the attacking character is the main determining factor with that question. This question is mainly brought up when dealing with ambiguous crossups…crossups that can be spaced and/or mixed up so that it’s hard to tell whether you need to block forward or backward. To answer your question about the default way to block these…you have to know the move in question and you have to be able to correctly gauge their jump to block it correctly. There is no default way to block a crossup…and that’s half of why they’re so valuable and effective as a tactic.

The easiest person to use as an example for ambiguous crossups is that Psycho Crushin’ fool, Dictator. He has two crossups that can absolutely wreak havoc on you: jumping :mk: and jumping :hk:. They each have to be blocked differently according to spacing because of their different hitboxes. Personally, I think jumping :mk: is a little tougher to correctly block. But, this situation is brought up even moreso because of Dic’s jump arc. Generally speaking, the more flat and long the jump arc, the easier it will be for that character to crossup opponents. But, of course, a big hitbox that reaches far behind your character (Can you say…any flying body splash?) helps, too.

But, to take down the window dressing and simply show you behind the scenes, crossups are simply the result of the bottom-rear corner of your jumping attack connecting with the top-rear corner of your opponent’s standing or crouching vulnerable box. That’s what makes them work. Go to training mode, display the hitboxes for yourself, and you’ll see how it works.

Remember…it’s not just a game. It’s a computer program.


#19

Hence, it can be said that Ken’s cr.:mp: has priority over Balrog’s Dashing Punches.

…and you said priority didn’t exist.

By all means, keep trying to figure things out, but it’s also a good idea to listen to what’s been said since 1991.


#20

I have a question about that… Does Gief have a similar option for Boxer? I know that I shouldn’t have as hard of a time as I do with Boxer… but I can’t seem to find something like Ken’s cr.mp.