The Future of Marvel Team Structure


#1

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about the future of this game. Just when I think I have it figured out, someone comes in and throws a wrench in the gears with some revolutionary team or tech that baffles thousands. I’ve come to realize that this game is a lot different than we see it right now.

Backstory

[details=Spoiler]First, a little backstory on how I came to the view I currently have (and will soon explain). I started playing fighting games in April of last year. Prior to then, the closest thing I had was Smash. I decided I wanted to move on to something more serious, so I went for the game that brought the fighting game genre to the masses - Super Street Fighter IV.

Now, keep in mind that I wasn’t your stereotypical Smash player. I didn’t waltz into the real FGC and expect to be a god. I knew it would take a long time to start to catch up with people, so I put in the work. After a month or two, I was actually starting to hold my own against mid-level players. I analyzed the game from a technical point of view, corrected my mistakes, and read. I read a ton of information. My head came close to exploding one time.

Mid-June came, and I decided to broaden my knowledge of fighting games by picking up Marvel vs. Capcom 3. I got my arcade stick a few weeks later, and I learned surprisingly fast. Why? A lot of reading. I watched videos too, but the reading helped tremendously. By the time Ultimate came around, I was a 4th Lord in Vanilla. I didn’t know quite enough to get creative and remain successful, so I was a Wolvie/Wesker/Akuma 4th Lord… But I was a 4th Lord.

Ultimate released, and I made a commitment to Strange for better or for worse. Obviously, the metagame didn’t shape up too well for him, but I stuck with it. About a month in, I decided to mess around in the lab with just a goofy team of characters I liked, regardless of tier or synergy (beyond the fact that I had an assist). It was pretty much a random selection of Strange and two other characters that I found fun to play.

I haven’t changed my team since.

The metagame changed since then, but I’ve adapted. I’ve learned new tricks, and I’ve found higher tier characters to be nothing more than an aid. I do believe that Phoenix Wright could win Evo if a good enough player was backing him. But is this my point yet? No. I know this is a lot of reading, but bear with me for just a bit longer so I can explain why I mentioned my history before I state my theory.

I wasn’t around for the Marvel 2 era. I didn’t get to see the hype and awesomeness that captivated the community for over a decade. I see it now in replays, but I didn’t see it then. But Marvel 3 is a different beast. Comparing it to MvC2 is like comparing SSF4 to SF3. It just doesn’t work. Sure, it has some of the same characters and a similar system. That’s not good enough. The reason my history is important is because I came into this game with an open mind that was willing to learn, and I was unaffected by everything except the present.[/details]

Now that I’m done talking about myself, it’s time to get to the point.

The way I see it is that current leading teams are very linear. They follow a strict pattern that, when broken, seems to invalidate the team’s competitive viability. But does everything really have to be Marvel 2 style, with two solid characters (preferably one battery) and an assist that can anchor? I think that’s a very tried-and-true method of teambuilding, sure. But what would be wrong with something else?

I agree that you need a good assist to win in this game. But is it really accurate to say that you need a dedicated assist, or that it needs to be at the back of the team?

Let’s take a look at an example team I’ve been messing with, Magneto-a/Sentinel-a/Doom-a. This is a very basic illustration of my concept - three characters who, in combination with any other assist on the team, are perfectly capable of winning matches, and they are all excellent anchors. This team can zone (Magneto + Drones, Magneto + Doom double beam, Sentinel Drones + Beam, Doom Photon Shots + Sentinel/Beam). This team can rush down (Magneto/Doom + Drones, Sentinel Drone push + beam). All three characters make a fantastic anchor. What can’t this team do?

Better yet, it is completely unaffected by snapback shenanigans that aim to affect team order, and can even change its order on the loading screen to cover bad matchups. You can even change Doom’s assist to Hidden Missiles for even more derp. Make a bad call and your assist gets caught and killed? No problem! You still have another good assist. Both of your assists are dead? No problem! You still have an outstanding anchor. Don’t like the matchup but can’t raw tag out? All three members have safe DHC’s to each other. I dare you to find a weakness.

I’m not saying this kind of teambuilding strategy will make conventional teams obsolete, but I do think it’s a concept worth considering. I’ve taken down High Lords with this team, and although I’m well aware that online Marvel means nothing, it at least proves it’s somewhat viable and not utterly horrendous. This isn’t the only team concept out there that isn’t being taken advantage of, but even this opens up an entirely new realm of possibilities.

If the mods think this should be moved to the Teambuilding or Tier threads, so be it. I just thought a separate thread for discussing a separate idea was in order, but far be it from me to make the final decision.

TL;DR - I think people should get more creative with their team structures, because the “classic” composition isn’t the only one that works.

Discuss, and thank you for reading.


#2

That was a lot of text for what is largely just based on assumption.

What makes you think theres a dedicated and structured way to how teams are built? Who is giving you the idea that these teams are invalidated if they don’t follow a certain structure?

Then your example is just…I don’t even know? You state “You know, you don’t even NEED a dedicated assist”, then you go off and list team “Hi i’m team dedicated assist, please ignore the crane”, I mean c’mon, Mag/Doom/Sent? Thats about as cookie cutter as it gets. By the way, if you were curious, Mag/Doom/Sent is very prone to getting assist sniped, can’t really snipe other assists, the assists are a bit redundant, the DHC synergy is so-so, and also, all of those characters save for Magneto are not “fantastic anchors”.

Theres a lot more to making a team than “Role/Role/Role” or “These characters can do all of this!” or “That character and this character kinda go good with another character”.

But anyway, back to what I was saying, I don’t think teams are being invalidated, unless you were talking to a brick wall. I’ve seen Point/Assist/Assist, Point/Assist/Anchor, Point/Point/Point ( also interchangeable with Anchor/Anchor/Anchor ), and pretty much every other combination under the sun do well at tournaments.


#3

>Excellent anchor
>Sentinel


#4

I agree. I suppose I could have made it much shorter, or at least stated the point sooner.

Maybe invalidated was the wrong choice of words. I just see a ton of people on this forum across tier threads, GD, and teambuilding state that the traditional structure is the best way. The goal of this thread isn’t to call them out on it, but to propose an idea that hasn’t been discussed. I haven’t seen it either (with a few exceptions), because tournaments aren’t a very friendly environment to experiment with a new concept.

I am well aware that I used a very generic team, and I merely mixed up the order to get my point across. The idea works the same with other teams too, however. The concept is still alive in Dante/Akuma/Ammy and even Hsien-Ko/Chun Li/Iron Man. The point is not a flawless, ridiculously game-breaking team; rather, a team that doesn’t fight in a fixed order. This allows it to exploit favorable matchups and switch out of unfavorable ones without messing up the synergy.

I agree. :slight_smile:

Fair enough. I’ll keep my eyes out this Evo for some unique stuff out there. Thanks for the reply though!


#5

What is the “traditional” method of team building? You need not speak of things you don’t understand dude.


#6

The “traditional” method is to pair two solid characters with an assist that doubles as an anchor. The two characters may compliment each other’s weaknesses with an assist or just a different playstyle, or there may be a battery and a meter-heavy character. I see both of your teams use this structure though, so meh. I’m not saying there’s something wrong with that. My main team for nearly my entire UMvC3 lifetime has used that formula. I’m just try to start a productive discussion about a concept to look out for in the future.

If the hate keeps rolling in, I’ll have this thread locked. I didn’t make this thread to get flamed for minor miswordings in my post which was made at 3:00 am local time. Do I have to be a 10-year forum veteran or a well-known pro to get my opinion at least seriously looked at by more than one person?


#7

That isn’t how teams work though. You’re looking at it much two narrowly. The team you listed didn’t demonstrate any different type of team structure than the “standard”. We build teams to achieve certain win conditions, counter other teams, exploit something, or enhance certain characters. What do you even want someone to do? Most of the best teams can be played in any order and have synergy throughout the entirety of the team. Some don’t, but they work well thanks to a duo etc. etc.

My teams do not work that way actually lol.


#8

Not hatin’, these are my opinions on that team.

-No one on that team is a great anchor, aside from Magnus.
-The whole Magnus/Sent duo is actually one of the most overplayed Magnus teams out there.
-If you put Doom missiles as an assist, Sent’s point game becomes way better IMO.

My story is similar to yours, actually. I came from Smash, aside from that I had played no other fighting game consistently before UMvC3. Some don’t even classify Smash as a fighting game, so I basically came from a video game background, with no fighting game experience. Anyways, I had picked up UMvC3 realizing that I was going to be a scrub, as I had no prior experience in the field of fighting games.

It’s been about 3 months since I’ve had the game, and boy did I read/learn/etc my ass off. Basic motions, terminology, character synergy, game mechanics, match-ups, combos, etc all were things I had to learn to be even somewhat successful at this game.

The first few days were the worst. I couldn’t win a match for the life of me, that was simply enraging; but it motivated me to learn more and more. After a while I finally got the hang of things. I knew all the characters inside out (moveset wise) and could perform basic BnB’s with about half the cast.

I currently have 248 hours in offline mode, which isn’t bad. I do practice regularly, I truly dislike failing. I intend to grab hold of this whole “fighting genre” that I have been neglecting for years.

The FGC seems quite nice, even though very argumentative; there are always people willing to help others it seems. I try to post helpful comments as well, and intend to make a very helpful thread during the summer (It’s a W.I.P, it will take a while; I like to make things perfect).

Hopefully through more and more experience I will be able to give back even more, that’s one of my goals you could say.

/rant.


#9

Neither Sentinel or Doom make good anchors - Doom is sort of okish an an anchor, but Sentinel is outright terrible. He has absolutely no way to open up opponents by himself.

Taking Magneto/Doom/Sentinel as a team, there is one big glaring weakness - a huge amount of the team’s ability to hit depends on Sentinel, which means an opponent with a fast horizontal hyper (Dormammu, Ryu, Dante, anyone who can hit for full hyper damage from far off) will happily spend meters and/or DHC to cut him down if he’s called out. Missiles assist is good, but it isn’t anywhere near as useful for Magneto as it is easier to catch while out and doesn’t limit the opponent’s horizontal options on screen, leaving your approach far more vulnerable (on top of that, missiles can be consistently avoided or nullified by several characters, especially Zero and Vergil.)

On top of removing Sentinel, should you lose Magneto, Doom stands to be killed off by XF - there is little to fear from an anchor Sentinel for the most part. Either of those characters die and you have a serious problem.

You’ll definitely need a different team to argue otherwise, as the team demonstrated here relies - for about 90% of its rushdown capability - on Sentinel, and he doesn’t add anything on point without a missiles assist for some kind of zoning.

What you need is some other anchor that provides something good as both anchor and assist, because otherwise, Magneto/Sentinel has the vulnerability that they are both severely weaker without the other, especially in teams which rely on that setup. Sentinel is a rather vulnerable assist, which doesn’t help matters.

I don’t like the idea of formulating a team on the basis of how good it is, personally, but perhaps you could try replacing Sentinel with Amaterasu-B for a more resilient team in the face of problems.