"the game will never bring in significant new blood with its dated control scheme"


#1

i’d like to bring to everyone’s attention this excerpt from a blog post by “professional wow player” and “professional naruto watcher” ming that he wrote on gameriot

i’d like to get people’s thoughts on this because it is very apparent that lots of people (whether they are “good” at games or not) who have no varied background in competitive gaming and design share this opinion

additionally “easier to get into rts games than fighters” is a ludicrous statement considering you can find an unlimited amount of bad players on sf4, but good luck winning games as a fresh player on iccup

i recall a post from way back from this guy about how he liked parrying and how he wanted a feature like it added to wow

so anyway yeah let’s talk about why qcf+p is really easy and why most people have some sort of motor skill deficiency


#2

We just had a thread like this on DL. I don’t think I can go through another one, sorry.


#3

He sounds like a total moron. He is criticizing fighting games for having difficult execution barriers? What would he say about Blizzard games like Warcraft III: TFT or Starcraft: Brood War? Those RTS games have execution barriers at high levels that make Virtua Fighter and Super Turbo look about as fast paced as a board game.

Starcraft’s execution barrier is so high that and its game mechanics and balance is are incredible and deep that arguable only a few people in the world can ever truly understand what is occurring across an average match.

And lastly, the whole “I don’t understand every move so it must be boring” is the dumbest attitude that a spectator can have. By this logic no one should be able to watch and enjoy professional sports unless they can run 80 minutes without fatigue or hit a 90mph fastball 400ft into the night. People don’t know how to hit a fastball out of the park but they know it’s difficult…so when they see someone do it they clap or cheer because it’s a feat.

Someone link his blog so we can bombard him with comments.


#4

one of the main reasons i picked up chun at the age of 7 was that sbk & legs inputs were the easiest in the game. i could do hadouken inputs, but i couldn’t throw the srk at that age for whatever reason, and it was so necessary.


#5

whats funny is that its not the special moves that are hard, its mostly just combo timing. then theres buffering and negative edge and all that (however snk moves are artificially hard to execute), but special moves, supers, and ultras (even 720’s) are hardly difficult if you’ve played the game for a year or so, and in the current environment online you can get away with using normals and limited special moves against shittier opponents.

people just don’t want to have to practice to play a game. people don’t want to work on the difficult to execute cause other games will give them shit for free just for being able to react in some sort of a timely fashion.


#6

is just another stupid retard on the internet, talking shit about how bad is he at fighting games, and that they need to change cuz he doesnt have enough brains to do a single 236p or a 623p


#7

Why can I do combos in games like Guilty Gear and Sengoku Basara X with ease but drop combos in KOF and SF?:sad:


#8

yeah this was a really stupid statement for him to make, considering how he so adamantly pushes wow as an “e-sport” and how wow is one of the most spectator unfriendly games there is, especially compared to something like a fighter where you have one character against another and very visible health bars

also http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/World-of-Ming


#9

How nice.


#10

The knee-jerk counterpoint is that SF2 was really popular, but there are some caveats to it:

In the arcade era you would never see or experience how the game was supposed to be played. A lot of local players didn’t think rog or sim were good at all, but there would never be anyone that played at a top level to see, so it didn’t matter.

People didn’t play SF the way it was meant to be played, but they didn’t actually care. Nowadays it’s a little different, so companies are going to have to be conscious of the fact that their games will be all over the internet and part of the marketing is going to have to include how players percieve top level play.

Fighters should be perfect for this because they can come across in a simple way “see i press A and hit you in the face, POW” but most of the time the impression is: “see this weird thing that makes no sense, you have to do that to win, thats a fighting game”. It is probably an unfair stigma, but it is there, and the games aren’t really helping themselves in that regard.

Even though there are things that are just as complex in FPS and sports, I think they are hidden better and that the casual fan really isn’t bothered by the complexity. Fans don’t have to understand complex mechanics, but they shouldn’t interfere in the casual viewing of the game.

3d fighters started to change this by adding easy combos and making sure that hitting buttons gave you some moves that looked like they made sense. In SF if you press buttons you just sit across the screen looking dumb. One of the things that made the SC4 Evo finals exciting was that it became simple, hilde is trying to ring out, other person is trying to not get rung out… easy to parse!

Smash has had (mostly) simple controls for a long time and it’s popular, fortunately companies like Arc are looking at it as well with BB’s “Press D and you get something interesting” system.

His point could have been better stated, but the idea behind it is important.


#11

Dude is a moron. Analogy fails hard, an RTS engine is not a FG engine, and vice versa. Dated control scheme? wtf do you want it to be? Make it so you can do special moves by clicking an Icon/hitting a hotkey? Oh wait he’s a professional WoW player, so hes used to playing games that don’t make you work.


#12

While I don’t want to apply poisoning the well…

lol WoW player


#13

Lol ming’s just a wanna be zecks. It’s why he doesn’t place in anything :nono:


#14

Ming is and always has been a troll. Stop gettin’ trolled, dude.

-Raeli, true Rogue class hero and generally awesome dude.


#15

Meh, even back when I was playing WoW (as a Rogue no less) around two years back no one respected Ming.


#16

i know what you mean, yet one of the things that i always loved about fighting games, is the reward factor that you get for playing them and practicing, the feel of accomplishment, when you get your bnbs done, or when you win a close match, i like the approach of BB, yet i dont feel that watering down the control scheme to appeal to the casuals would make the fighting scene grow, at least not in a healthy way, maybe is an elitist way of thinking, but i always felt this way, if a casual doesnt have the willing to learn, it doesnt matter if you break down the execution wall for them, the next wall would pull them off, its just the way of the scrub


#17

Ugh thought I’d get away from trolls like Ming after I left WoW.

His opinion continues to be of little value I see -.-


#18

Even back then, most everyone knew he was beyond all hope.


#19

How exactly do you become a “profesional Naruto watcher”?

Tbh I knew the blog was going to be crap after that point.


#20

the inputs are somewhat dated i guess but the combos in sf4 don’t flow as well as in previous installments and other fighting games. in BB you can chain everything so even a new player can feel badass doing random stuff. sf4 has some really stupid shit like no chains can combo into a special, and of course 1 frame links, all of which turns new players off to trying to become pro or even just mastering one character. if it isn’t an enjoyable challenge people will just look for something else to play.