The Gender Politics Thread


#1

Over the past few months, I have become increasingly involved with Men’s Rights stuff, as well as Men Going Their Own Way, and I know some srkers on here are familiar with the movements as well. I’ve also started posting about it in the relationships thread, and figured the subject would be much better discussed in its own thread.

With feminists hawking their heads off over the oppression of women, men’s oppression is often overlooked/ignored, so here’s hoping to get discussion going on both sides, and for those not familiar with men’s rights issues(though I’m sure most here are familiar with feminism in one way or another), I’ll be posting these links to start with:

An Introduction to the Mens Movement 3/1/2011 - AVoiceforMen | Internet Radio | Blog Talk Radio - Introduction to MRA by Paul Elam, a pretty prominent writer in the field

Violent Women and Government Lies 3/8/2011 - AVoiceforMen | Internet Radio | Blog Talk Radio - Here’s Paul Elam with some guest speakers discussing the disparities in domestic violence, and how these cases are handled by the gov’t/law enforcement, should be eye opening for some, more of the same for others

The False Rape Society - blog I’ve been a long time reader of, chronicling the disturbing practice of women outright lying about rape for some of the most ridiculous reasons, contrary to the popular dialogue that leads one to automatically believe a woman whenever she says she’s raped.

The Spearhead ? Piercing the Shield of Ignorance - an online magazine posting stories related to MRA, as well as critiqing feminism, and misandry which is quite rampant in our society

A Voice for Men - the website for the radio station which also has mra related stories and guest editorials

so with that said, here’s hoping to get some discussion going, as well as personal experience of srkers, I know some like serp have alluded to this stuff before long before I even got into mra, but I’m also sure there’s white knights/feminists in the wings ready to call me a misogynist too, but let’s see how it goes

edit: Appending this link to the thread

http://weddedabyss.wordpress.com/ - for all of you on the edge and needing just that little push NOT to marry, here’s reasons ad nauseum.


SRK Lounge: aka Facebook/livejournal for GD ...or you know...not
SRK Lounge: aka Facebook/livejournal for GD ...or you know...not
#2

Hmm…I’ll keep an eye on this. Although if you are a fan of egalitarianism, you’re pretty much a feminist. Sometimes those bitches take it too far.


#3

^agree 100% with you on the last part Pertho, but not the first. I’m by no means a gender egalitarianist, as per the definition:

“World bodies have defined gender equality in terms of human rights, especially women’s rights, and economic development.[2][3] UNICEF defines gender equality as “levelling the playing field for girls and women by ensuring that all children have equal opportunity to develop their talents.”[4]”

per wikipedia, how about instead of levelling the playing field for girls and women, we stop screwing over the men and give the feminists exactly what they claim to want, equal everything. But what most of them want isn’t equal opportunities, it’s equal outcomes, where they can have all the same outcomes as men but maintain their privileges. I’d prefer women were equal to men in every respect, not just in the fields they like.


#4

I saw pics of frumpy ass bitches with placards and signs, bitching about being paid less and other shit. Oppression of women in Saudi Arabia, Im with u on that. Making less money than some random guy halfway across the country??? Fuck right off. Bitch about that when ur being hired.

I have a friend who got charged with rape when his date got busted cheating by her boyfriend. That’s some cold shit there.

Women seem to miss shit like guys usually paying for dates, buying the engagement ring, and generally having laws stacked against them.


#5

Heh…SoVi3t, I can do you one better, how about this story of a guy who got the false rape/domestic violence/child abuse triple entendre thrown at him by a deranged wife?

Vladek Filler and The Modern Day Witch Trials of Fathers and Men

This case is STILL playing out, even with the prosecutor, Mary Kellett, being proven to have commmitted prosecutorial misconduct, that bitch needs to be disbarred and I seriously feel sorry for srkers(and men in general) in Maine.

for my personal experience:

Two guys I know in college were charged of rape after this girl had sex with them and two other members of the bball team, no one outside of them knows for sure what happened in that room but I’ve heard several rumors that the chick texted her friends proud of having screwed the bball team’s stars, but when they called her a slut the bitch turned to rape, all four players got suspended from the school with two of them leaving. The prosecutor for the state looked at the case and concluded there was not enough evidence to prosecute, but the school, in an extra judicial ruling, suspended them anyway, and for the two that stayed the school tried to force them into signing an apology(basically a confession without a trial).

In high school, I was called into the principal’s office because a cheerleader I talked to months back had said there was a guy peeping outside her house and she couldn’t think of anyone else but me(not to mention I never had this bitch’s phone number, let alone her address), but I got pulled into the office, the police called my mom for questioning, and I was treated like a criminal without knowing wtf was going on. They never found the “guy” so to speak, and I’m pretty sure he never even existed.

while in college, actually a year back, I got pulled into the office again to talk with school staff, as a chick whose mom works for the school said I was making her uncomfortable(though I had no indication of it the three times I talked to this chick, and none of the convos were over 5 mins). So I was told not to keep contact with her with the veiled threat of administrative action being taken against me, the very next fucking day, I’m working on a school project in the building she works in with some classmates, and this bitch walks by, has the fucking nerve to look straight at me and say “hi”, the day after she fucking reported me for harrassing her.

also had two gfs(who I never even had sex with) threaten me that they’d tell police I tried to rape them after we had a falling out, I promptly cut off all contact with them after that and luckily nothing ever came of it


#6

Egalitarianism pretty much means that everybody gets treated the same. When humans were foraging, we all rolled like equals no problem. But this is one of those things where culture, and people’s lack of understanding of it, impact how far we can take it. For example, during the same year I was taking women’s studies (and won an award as feminist of the semester) I got into a discussion with a woman supposedly working on her PHD. I told her that I treat everybody equal, and that this did include taking a woman’s knee cap if she approached me in a threatening matter. She flip her fucking lid at that moment because you aren’t supposed to be hitting women. Similarly if somebody watches a fight, and a guy is smacking the shit out of a girl, I’d put good money that people are going to think that it’s abuse first before self defense from the man (mind you, there are a lot of reasons for this that don’t make it a black and white issue but w/e).

At the very least if you just want equality you are an accidental feminist because you just want bitches to be given a fair shake; although it was third wave feminism that got all wacky and fuck knows what the hell is going on there. But considering that the abortion debate and how ridiculous that is, as well as the new rewording of rape, women should be losing their lids.

The rape situation is a bad one for everybody: its horrible for the woman because its hard to prosecute, its horrible for the guy because the mere accusation caries the stigma of it for the rest of your life and it is easy to be falsely accused of it.


#7

Yeah, and let’s not forget about the only rape that’s acceptable for comedy in western media

The Rape of Mankind ? A Voice for Men

Sorry Pertho, but considering the feminists I’ve dealt with, I consider that a huge insult to be called one, even under those conditions(and despite the fact I’m a former member of my school’s feminist club before I got into MRA)


#8

Nothing to apologize about. If the rape situation wasn’t so fucked up for everybody (shit, ever met somebody who was raped by a woman, I have) then a lot of this wouldn’t be necessary.


#9

The whole feminist argument boils down to this:

“I want my cake, AND your cake. And I want to eat them both too.” ~ Feminism

I am SO glad that there are other men in this country and elsewhere around the world who have begun to wake up, and started seeing this shit for what it is - discrimination against men.

The most fucked up part about it, though is how many men will - even violently - defend a woman’s “right” to everything, if another man so happens to defend his own actual, individual rights against her.

Those men are the bitches bitches, and we need to stop them first. Because it is they who make all this sad, rationally implausible shit possible.

As I see it.


#10

When I was younger I made enemies with one bitch. At one point in time she called the cops about me peeping in her window, and her friends 100% saw me, and we apparently argued too.

The kicker was that I was camping in another province, 8 hours away.

She then told the cops “oh I guess I must have been mistaken.”

Yeah… I guess so


#11

Well now I’m curious, can you give some examples of women who abuse their rights that men don’t have?
As I understand it, feminism’s agenda is NOT a take over of the world, but merely trying to undo most of the sexism that has run the world for the last few thousand years. Of course its not going to be a smooth transition. Doesn’t sexism hurt everybody? Men have to deal with unrealistic and often stupid portrayals of masculinity and men can suffer terrible things at the hands of other men if they look too girly.

Generally, believing in stuff is a waste of time, its too hard to tell when feminism is being slandered by the forces it is trying to combat,and when their is an actually legitimate grievance. What is the point in even trying?


#12

I haven’t had the problem of encountering gender politics as of yet and I hope to God I don’t. I work in a kitchen so basically with everyone, man or woman, in a desexualized uniform, it’s easy to treat everyone as “one of the guys” and not just male and female.

With the false accusation of rape, I think pertho nailed it right on the head. It’s bad for both sides. It fucks up credibility or the severity of actual rape cases and puts a strain on the judicial system to process that shit; and second it’s a trivializing a horrible act to just “get back” at some guy who just called you a name or you were angry at. What I don’t understand is what morals or fucking value system do these women have use the “rape card” as a means to get back at someone? Don’t they even realize how shameful it is to pretend let alone, think about the idea when there are actual women devastated by actual rape?

As much as I subscribe to everyone being equal, I’m not 100% bought into it mainly because of the skewed politics for both sides of the genders. While It’s my absolutely belief that I’ll never see 100% equality in my lifetime, I am content with the strides we made so far but more importantly that the flaws and biases we still encounter are balanced out by the traditional gender privileges that still exist. Men are predominantly are still going to be in power, moreso in developing countries; we’re still going to make more money and most women are going to benefit from us and rule the world with their pussy.

OC


#13

Too busy to go into this right now, but let’s use the “no hitting women” defense. Almost every woman takes advantage of this. They will say or do things that, if they were male, would result in a viscious beatdown. I’m not saying men should be allowed to hit women, but women need to learn that running their mouth has consequences.


#14

I used to be a feminist…until I almost married one.

I realized the brutal truth. Feminism isn’t about equality. Feminism is about us vs them.

If you truly want gender equality than you shouldnt even have to state you are a feminist. Thats like saying you are anti-murder. Equality is clearly something that everyone should strive for.

That said, the genders are not the same and you would be an idiot to consider them like that. Trust me, if women were treated identically to men 90 percent of them would be against it and I dont blame them.

If a girl out there is screaming “feminist this and that” thats cool. Thats what she is supposed to do. Get as much power as she can! But if you are a dude and helping her do it you are a simp. Plain and simple


#15

I was browsing around once on amazon.com and ran into a book (sorry, can’t remember the title or the author) that described why feminism is no longer a viable intellectual force in American academia or the wider arena of public discourse. There is a long and ugly forty-year history of certain respected feminists writing the most hateful anti-man screeds that gave feminism a reputation identical to environmentalism. (For environmentalists, it was the same story–there are a small percentage of [very vocal] environmentalists who believe mankind should be wiped off the face of the planet for the way it has exploited the natural world, and they basically ruined the message for everybody.)

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feminism, just something wrong with certain feminists. And there’s also the matter of there being no way for a man to support feminism in a sustained conversation without looking ridiculous. Talking about it is playing a broken game, and the most I can ever get out of it is to remark about its brokenness (like I’m doing now) before moving on to find something better to do with my time.

Thank you for the links though. I’m not sure what to think about them yet.


#16

I think the problem is that women want to have the same rights and privileges as men, and also have the same privileges that they had before the movement started. I probably need multiple hands to count, for example, when I am attempting to get on the bus, and a woman rudely gets in front of me, even though she wasn’t as close to the bus as I was. My brother experienced this, when a woman tried to get in front of him (forcing her way through), but he knew what her intentions were and got on first… she gave him the “evil eye” when on the bus.

There are too many men that are on the extreme side of feminist rights (organizations like NOW), that it will be very hard (but definitely possible) for this to to be received on a national scale, without the media resorting to using words, such as chauvanist, or sexist, because according to the media and feminists, anything that has to deal with men specifically is backwater, outdated, unlawful, etc.


#17

I think it’s interesting that with all the time and money spent trying to get girls to do better in school, now the guys are lagging behind because they’ve been neglected. It’s a shame really. You end up with a lot of smart boys in school that wind up going down self destructive paths because the teachers and administrators are so busy making sure the girls are comfortable and “able to be themselves” and all that crap.

I won’t hit a chick. UNLESS she goes for the nuts or the face. Then it’s on. But I know not to date chicks that are crazy enough to try to do something like that, and that helps too. :wink:


#18

I’ll give some quick points and elaborate a little later on.

  • Family Courts. This is something that has become rather legendary, with women who are involved in custody battles for the children “all of a sudden” claiming their husband not only abuses them, but also sexually assaults their kids, and in most cases not only does she get custody, she also gets to stay in the man’s house while he gets arrested. Listen to the first episode of Paul Elam’s show, there’s a story about a man’s wife who was abusive to him(if you think it’s just made up to slander feminism, the Center for Disease Control actually stated that most cases of nonreciprocal violence in domestic dispute cases are started by the woman). Well this guy’s wife was abusive, and he finally had enough of her shit and wanted a divorce, this stupid cunt started saying SHE was afraid of HIM, and the police constantly harrassed him until finally letting him serve her divorce papers.

Women are almost always given custody of the children, and she usually gets half the assets a male owns even if there is a prenup(most judges will ignore any prenup you have if children are involved). A man has to bend over fucking backwards to get custody over a woman, and that still doesn’t save him from also paying alimony to the ex wife.

False Rape Allegations - This is another rather infamous point, for those of us in this thread familiar with the Duke rape case, but I’m sure less of us are familiar with what went down at Hofstra University. Four men were instantly arrested by the cops when Damwell Nndonye claimed to have been raped, and a fifth one, the guy being in high school I believe, was on his way to being arrested as well, until it was revealed he had a tape of Nndonye gleefully engaging in sex with the four guys, the problem being that Nndonye had a boyfriend, so she used rape as a coverup for having sex with all those guys. Also in this thread I linked to the story of the soldier, Vladek Filler, who’s being reamed in the courts in this Maine rape hysteria, even after the prosecutor is being shown to commit so many acts of prosecutorial misconduct that were this any other case this bitch would be disbarred.

  • also the way we prosecute men accused of rape and women accused of rape is so fucking skewed its not even funny. On SRK even, when that one batshit teacher who abused that kid was arrested you had people on here saying how lucky he was among other bullshit. Now I’m sure a lot of underage girls who have sex with older men probably enjoyed it too, but we throw those men in jail without question, while women get much lighter sentences if at all, there’s a rather infamous case of a woman who was having sex with an underage man, got pregnant, and went after him for CHILD SUPPORT.

Female Sex Offenders / Female Sexual Predators - Women who sexually abuse children and teens - Rape, Incest, Female Teachers Sexual Predators somewhere in here it’s mentioned, it’s also mentioned on FRS but I don’t remember the specific names.

Title IX - This one is pretty much on the school/college level, and its goal was meant to give women equal opportunities in school, though nowadays its mostly applied to sports. Now the original title ix was fine, and it paved the way for a lot of women athletes, the problem was when a second form of it was instituted, I think in 1979 but someone correct me on that, it added a proportionality clause. This clause forces schools to maintain equal representation in sports that mirrors the population of the student body. This spelled the death of wrestling teams across the country, and killed many other mens sports, but also took down women’s gymnastic teams as well, while sparing the basketball and football teams for rather obvious reasons.

runaway - you are welcome for the links, take some time to digest them, and most importantly, keep your mind open. Trust me, there is definitely something wrong with feminism, while how long there’s been something wrong(some say from the very beginning if you take S.C.U.M. manifesto as an example) is up for debate, if you really look at what’s happening to men(and by extension the women involved with them and the kids they may have), there is something seriously fucked up going down here.

oh, while I"m at it

Shelters - There’s shelters out the ass for battered women and their children, but wait, most shelters will not take a male child if he’s over 12, because “they’re too dangerous”. Men on the other hand, have very few shelters available for them unless its a general homeless shelter or a family shelter(I only know of a few in downtown stl like Covenant House, and Larry Rice). People really could give less of a damn for homeless/mentally ill men, but we give even the most disgusting Welfare Queens(of which I know of one personally) all the help in the world “getting back on their feet”.

Reproductive Rights - Ok this one will split people, but why does the woman retain sole say in aborting a fetus? Hmm? Now I know the feminist party line is “my body my choice”, but last time I checked, women didn’t get pregnant solely by their eggs, there had to be sperm to fertilize their eggs. Now I think women should have a full right to have an abortion, but what about the father? How come he doesn’t get any say in the procedure at all? A woman can completely terminate the child, and thus sever any kind of financial responsibility, time spent raising the kid, etc. But if the father doesn’t want to, and the woman refuses to abort, he gets reamed in the family courts being forced to pay child support, to support a child he never even wanted. Now the most obvious solution is to always keep it wrapped but even then that doesn’t always guarantee anything. On the contrary note, if the father DOES want the child and she doesn’t, too bad so sad the father is out on his ass. This is something I don’t really see being countered until Exogenesis(artificial womb tech) is finally perfected and able to use on a massive scale, ofcourse feminists have screamed in protest of this tech, with one feminist saying it would take away the “last leverage women have”, you’re damn right it would.


#19

sexual harrassment. U just TRY going to ur boss or coworkers, as a guy, and mention a girl is sexually harrassing you. Now think of the reaction when a woman is harrassed by a guy.

i hate to say it, but women need to realize that they’re NOT equal (not in a bad way though). We have differences, and it’s stupid to ask for the exact same rights, given those differences.


#20

I’m just going to throw this out there, and not give a damn what kind of fallout occurs.

Women shouldn’t be paid the same as men.

Period.

Now that that is out of the way, I will say this: Women* do *deserve equal pay for equal work.

But the simple biological fact remains that, for approximately one week out of a month, they cannot function equally.

This is both physically and metally speaking.

This is not their fault - it is nature - but it is fact, and to ignore it is patently absurd.

Lol.

Damn.

Word.

We posted at almost the same moment, too.

Were it not for my diatribe being longer… lol.

The thing is though, in the context of this thread, he is right.

I think you’re hilarious, most times - in the best sense.

Hell, I even read your initial post in here in a deadpan voice.

As I see it.