The Good and The Bad Of AE Claw

vega

#1

I’ve been playing AE now for a few days and found many things that are kinda cool and kinda dumb…heres what I got so far:

cr.MK people say that it is a buff… I argue its actually a nerf. Because cr. MK was more usefull with its slightly slower start up but with more active frames. It lost its meaty set-up because the active frame is gone. cr.MP is still the same but better than cr.MK by hitbox alone. cr.MK lowers body size but not enough to dodge anything significant. So why would anyone do cr.MK as a poke when cr.MP is the better choice? It hits higher also well as the low ground that cr. MK covers. The speed is slower but it reaches further. So…whats the point?

With cosmic heel shut down and Gief’s SPD range longer than most ppl’s junk, I can confirm that this match up is extremely gay its painful. My friend that mains gief grabbed me from 3/5s of screen range for a lucky guess that I was gonna bluff with st. MK. My jab was reversaled at tip point even though I didn’t go for a second jab. st. MK at tip point can’t get reversaled by SPD but any closer can result into a SPD reversal… Meaning this matchup=Vega pokes and jumps. Theres no viable way to move in without the risk of SPD or Lariat. Be scared Vega players… Zangief vs Vega will quickly become player violence if the Gief player has bad temper. leave the arcade if you sense it.
The upside to this match up is there will be no EX green fist knock down shenanigans. Considering that the combos following up after the frame advantage does little damage, I’d say that is the one thing that improved for Vega.

Lets see…Guile matchup doesn’t really improve either since CH is no longer a viable way to get in at all. So you’re down to…Really stiff gameplay where you try to push Guile back by walking and poking with st. LK and st. MK. The occational EX RCF can work just as before of course. The nerf on Guile’s air grab doesn’t really affect the fact that Guiles arial normals shuts down Vega’s. So…Whoopie.

Ryu’s cr. MK is pretty much the same as Vega’s cr. MK but with better follow ups because of Ryu’s movesets. But individually, they are about the same. Ryu still has the hitbox shrinking that is much better but at the same time its tighter timing be cause his normal hitbox gets restored quite quickly. I’ve found this match-up quite annoying because of this change. Ryu can actually play Vega’s poking game =.= Oh well…Its not like Ryu didnt’ have his nerfs >:D

His jump is still the same… j. HP just won’t land because he has little to no threat of crossing up with j. HP. If you land overboard you’ll just eat combos or throws. Those who know that won’t be intimidated by it at all and just block it. There are very little oppertunities to land EX RCF even on combos. If you don’t land EX RCFon a combo and continue with a cr. MP–>EX FBA the damage is like what… 280 ish…for 2 bars. No thank you…

EX RCF–>cr. MP is not always worth it if you don’t plan on connectiing with EX FBA. Because one of the reasons why I use RCF is to gain offensive on them while pushing em back. cr. MP alone will push them away from me which I don’t want when I’m on a offensive.

Lets see… there are some good things that come out of cr. MK being 6 frames. It makes people respect it more when they are standing up. So its like an alternative to cr. MP. You’ll land it more often than before but it does less damage but the trade seems to be ok in that respect. The extra frame start-up on U2 is actually not too bad. Infact I had problems with it by activating it too soon in SSFIV so the extra frame start-up kinda helped me with the anti air.


#2

Ehm, say what?

The active frames are the same as in SSF4… And why would you use cr.MK when cr.MP is better? Wow…


#3

well, to be fair, i use cr.mk more than cr.mp simply because i can make my opponent block low, so that i can use my overhead more:)


#4

Active frames cut? Damn, then that is really shitty.

@WWamjin

His point is that cr.mk not being as active as before means its harder to make people run into the damn poke, and cr.mp covering more ground, and people always blocking low. In short it looks like it isnt such a great footsie tool, and knowing Kei and his all footsie game, I understand where he is coming from.

Although, by the sounds of it, offensive Vega with forefront being cr.mk.

Still though, Vega’s most important move is cr.mk, all it needs is more range.


#5

played ae vega for a couple rounds. cosmic heel was so crappy i was afraid to throw it out and as a result my game suffered. funny enough i fought gief too. got raped. everything kei_kun said is true and i suspect gief/vega will be a very bad match up in ae.

ill probably play again this friday so if there’s anything that people want checked let me know and if the request isn’t filled before then ill do it. i played bison much more with my time at first since it’s a dollar per game, and playing with vega is almost suicide these days so i didnt want to waste money.

i dont have much to say about vega at this point due to my lack of time with him in ae. oh yeah ex-st was stuffed multiple times. whoopee.


#6

this is very disappointing to hear.


#7

Today at the arcade I got to face alot more Yang and Yuns. I had very little to no problems crossing them up with j.HP when they move especially when they try to focus me. I won’t say its solid that his j.HP has better hitbox. But its what I experienced today. I also experienced a few Dictator matches where I escape with wall jump fierce. I crossed him up both mid air and while he stands. Again… I don’t dare say his hitbox may have been tweaked but its extremely unusual for me to cross them up so often.

I haven’t really talked much about the good of AE claw. Yes hes different in the way that he is a lineant poker with very little variety but he also has a better wait/punish game in respect that cr. MP–>M RCF is now a combo. It gains decent meter which does kinda replaces the loss of CH meter building. Still not as good as CH but atleast he got something. So his meter gaining hasn’t been lost and arguably better.

Like Niah said, cr. MK makes people crouch. Due to its fast start up, it does force people to respect and crouch block more, leading to interesting set ups for high/low game. But his overhead, don’t forget, has no frame advantages. People who don’t care about getting hit by it, can just throw you or continue on as if your overhead was part of their own block string. Thats why, I don’t see it as a viable option. I rather have my slower cr. MK that baits better with all its meaty goodness. Pedo seems to understand where I’m comming from :smiley:


#8

The prospect of his j.hp’s hitbox being buffed is enlightening for sure. But I’ve always felt I’ve had a relatively good hit % on cross ups with it. Especially with Tatsu’s tri jump setup. But even outside of that too, although it’s usually on bigger characters and yes Bison o.O but the fact that you nailed the twins with it gives me hope :smiley:


#9

cr.MP > M RCF is a combo in AE ?


#10

It was almost one in vanilla already, if it had not be punishable before the claw thrust on block it would have been a very decent blockstring, which it was in Super.

In vanilla cls.mp and in a lower propertion cls.mk do combo into M.RCF on crouching opponents, so does cr.MK in even fewer proportion in vanilla this wasn’t an option beacause of the risk involved but in super one could always try it,

it generates massive pushback, decent chip, decent meter , leave you safe on block and a very good distance, on hit decent damage (220 almost as good as CH combos) and decent stun. it was a pretty decent pressure tool.


#11

Wow he sounds shit.

I think the extra frame start up on U2 might need testing to see if it actually works better as an anti air because other people have also said that its easier now. I cant imagine it would better unless you were doing it stupidly early before.

Almost everyone knew ex rcf was a stupid buff. Well we can confirm that now.


#12

Are you sure c.mpxx mp roll combos? I tried that a million times when I played AE and it didnt combo even at kissing range, only time it did was on CH…
I agree about Gief/Vega being ass, what i dont agree with is EX GH helping with the MU, the Gief I played against used that as a reset and made it very painful for me… wasnt fun.

also, i highly doubt j.Hp was altered, the twins have very funky hitboxes so I wouldnt count on that, when I was using Yun so many characters did jump ins that crossed up yet they stayed on the same side, it was somewhat irritating coz its like every jump-in was an ambiguous jump-in…

CH is useful for 1 thing in AE… punishment.


#13

Must not be in all situation than we can link 2Mp & M RCF


#14

The thing that pisses me off most is that ?can’t quite mentally place claw in the tier list. Hes not bad…Hes not good. Hes…Claw…=.= If anything he probably scales down to be just slightly weaker the SSIV. I’ve noticed alot of changes to the cast in AE, that are mostly just plain pointless. Why would Capcom do such pointless things? We may never know

8 months later…Introducing SSIV AE TURBO!!!


#15

So I played this game for the first time in a week and it dawned me. The idea had popped in my head every once in a while since Super came out, but its even more apperant in AE anyway This game is far from balanced and is way to fucking polarized. Its fucking retarded. It doesnt matter how well you can keep somebody out. Mix up games in this game (SSF4) are way to strong, and way to rewarding for little work or effort. As opposed to keeping somebody out with footsies or you are zoning them (Obsolete tools in SF4 engine). Because it doesnt matter, one guess on thier end and not only have they evened it out, they are now in the lead, and put you in a situation where you have to take it. Sure you can say its a risk (mix ups), but honestly it really isnt. If you want to win and stay ahead of the pack, you need a character like Abel. Braindead once he gets his shit going, especially to those who dont have a three frame jab. Akuma with his low reward stupid high reward vortex. Or Ibuki’s mid risk extremely high reward mix ups, Viper, etc, and now in AE you have Makoto, Hakan, Yun, Yang. If you arent mixing people up you need someone like Honda or Sagat (SF4 not SSF4) who deal heavy easy to deal damage to compensate for a linear game which often does not reward enough. Vega used to be in that category. Used to hit heavy especially with Cosmic Heel, but the nerf on cr.mp damage and EX FBA and the unsafeness of Cosmic Heel, that damage is going to add up a lot and is going to be sorely needed to compete. So what the fuck does Vega have now, in a game dominated by mix ups? More better footsies, a better cr.mk? Good luk using that while you are getting mixed up. W 41% of the cast is mix up heavy or has solid tools + mid risk high reward mix up options in AE. Vega is not one of them, he is in the same boat as Bison, Sagat; linear, low reward, spacing heavy, easy to get around. BTW, just because of that reason (mix ups), this game doesn’t look fun. When I/you have to run away from 40% of the cast and play a very limited low reward footsie game, where the other player can just brezze right through that shit, its stupid and unfair.


#16

it has always been pretty true pedo.

In vanilla mix up rocked the place already. And vega never really was very good at footsies. well he does win at footsies often, but he gets no reward for that.

Fought a chun this afternoon did pretty well but it is pretty obvious she is just as good as vega at footsies, but she gets crazy mixups and does 600 damage out of a 2 frame jab.

as you said all it takes on their side is one simple invicible uppercut and they just remove 60% of your health in a single easy juggle combo.

Played a fuerte after, it is basically like abel, he actually doesn’t even have to read your game he does his shit alone it is coming from all side, he can instant grab you at 2 thrid of the screen at any time, and if he gets in once he lands an infinite combo on you and you lose.

Same goes with Abel, Viper, rufus basically all those characters have a god like ability to break the other people guard and to top it off they have insane damage combos to land onward the whole stuff being from one end to the other easier to execute than a single izuna drop on a non moving sagat.

Some would argue chun/ fuerte /viper have low health, well they still have plenty more than vega.

Viper has no footsies, well she doesn’t have to play them at all to begin with she is impervious to zoning and footsies.

This doesn’t even factor all the things around which the game is balanced that we don’t even have.

And yet nobody says you need to play vega, if one is after performance, he plays a performant character, it is true for anything when you go to a race you use a formula one and not your grandma citroen.

I play vega, I lose to people who are not my level, I could play vanilla sagat I would still lose to thousands of people.

There are two mindsets, one cares about winning one puts all things on his/her side, one doesn’t care about winning fair enough then why would he whine when he loses.

Playing Vega when it is the only thing holding you from being a champion is being a scrub, if makoto wants daigo’s throne, he is being a scrub, if makoto wants to prove that you can play the weakest character in the game and still have fun and earn respect among the worlds champions I say kudo’s to him.

We all have our ups and downs pedo, just remember why you play and act accordingly
, if you want to be the next alex valle you are going to have to make sacrifices, picking a competitive character is one of them.


#17

Its not that, if this game is supposedly balanced, then this shit should not happen.

Theory has it Capcom took away Cosmic Heel to balance Vega out, make him less brain dead. Yeah that’s cute but Abel, Akuma, Viper stay just as stupid, Makoto and Hakan got scary buffs. If its blalance thay are after then they simply failed in that aspect.

Besides I play Vega in Vanilla becaue I loved his flow and moveset. He fit my style perfectly along with Sagat. Stay grounded, hold your ground and push. They fucked Sagat in Vanilla so its easy as hell to push him around in Super, and they buffed Vega. Now this? All these buffs are to compensate mix up characters. Sagat was the only reason Abel, Viper, Rufus, Cammy, etc where not top dogs in Vanilla. Now, they weakened Sagat even more in AE (rumor has it, high tiger shot is 1 frame slower), and Vega. Completly getting rid of my preffered play style.

Stand your ground push them to the corner. Stand there and taunt.

No one else in the game plays like Sagat or Vega, imo. Ability to deal heavy damage with proper spacing and zoning. Have all around amazing poke normals.

Tell me Ajunta, do you have fun losing? do you have fun losing because of bullshit? Makoto was good in Vanilla, but honestly because of Vega all he did was become that one Vega player. with the buffs in Super, he made a name and put Vega on the map along with Cat-K. Losing to Abel and Akuma when I dominated the whole match up unitl he tagged me once with f.mk or Akuma with sweep is infuriating. When you lose to mix ups because your character has no answer to that situation does not equal getting out played. You got outchessed and your only hope is to out chesse them.

edit: Its even more true in AE. Which is apperant. Which is why im salty. I hate mix up guessing games. which is why I hate SF3


#18

never said I had fun losing,

I lose my temper too sometimes when chun-li finally land a hanzanshu and then combo the 85% health I have left into oblivion.

or when rufus got dominated the whole match and suddenly he ultras my 60% health left because he was good enough to …trade during a air duel…

Or when gief removes 70% of my health with his ultra grabbing me 5 frames into my backflip…

All I say is that sometimes palying to win and playing a character that appeals to you don’t fit together very well. I chose to play a character which moveset I liked just like you, and in the end however frustrated I sometimes get, it never lasts and I always come to the same conclusion when my blood cools down, if I was better I’d tear this guy apart even with vega.

Now if I was somewhere near makoto’s level I would consider things under a diffrent angle.

I always grin when I play a friendly match and the noob on the other side makes a whole fuss, wait I pick vega to counter pick. I always say to myself, “lol does this guys really think he can cover all that he lacks in basics by counterpicking and spamming beast roll or lariat…”

But it works both side, I feel the same about myself, lets be honest 80% the matches I lose the blame goes on me having more fragile fundamentals and execution than the other guy.


#19

You have a point, playing characters you like does not always yeild satisfactory results. However, when the producer is proclaiming to balancing the game to make it more “fair” or should I say accessible to weaker characters, and they completely fail in that aspect and nerf characters that should not be nerfed. That is one the reasons why i get irritated. Nerfing supposedly chessy braindead shit and allowing mix up characters to be just as strong, if not stronger with the elimination of proper zoning tools. How can anybody, but Makoto, Hakan, Abel, Ibuki, Akuma players rejoice?

But how does the mix up heavy character player have better fundamentals than you, when you lose to them. You dominated, and slipped once. Thats fine, that you are bound to slip once in every match. In fact its expected and demanded. You are after all human.

But its not expected when you get randomed out because the other character can guess on you all day long, every time once he finally gets in.

Example Akuma

he lands sweep; all of his options are practicly no risk. Any thing you do to get him off, is not really going to hurt him. if you do happen to get him off, he is still in a position where you are disadvantaged.

Example Abel

you convince him to play footsies. You dominate and for the last 60 seconds, you have worn him down, he finally lands f.mk. Vega is a special case because it is a true toss up and guessing game, with a 4 frame jab, and no reversal, you have to play his game. You lose the match 20 seconds later because you guessed wrong.

That is not losing to fundamentally better players. That is what pisses me off about this game, because its so common. And especially since it looks like its this style of play is much more pronounced in AE well you know.

Edit;

Im fine losing to Gief, he actually has to work for his damage, or Ken, Sakura, Blanka, Cammy, etc. But not Fuerte, Abel, etc. They do jack shit for damage.


#20

well let me help you with that one

E/D in vanilla, his worst rendition
C in Super, his best rendition

now he’s gonna be D/C.

ae vega is overall weaker than super vega in my humble but 100% accurate opinion

crap character made crappier by crapcom. everyone can have fun with his crap footsies and half assed aa’s, and his ‘pressure’ comparable to a deflated balloon, but he’s not a character anyone is gonna win something big with