Every fighting game has em. I’m kind of new to KOF if you consider me not playing this game competitively. I would like to hear everyones opinion on who gives who trouble etc. Lets not put Raiden and Elizabeth in this lol.
Dam at least put some effort into this thread. Geez
Well I’m at work right now so I wanted to to make it brief and to the point. Coming from SF4 the whole game is match up based. Rose is ass but she fights Bison, but Bison is top tier. I see someone did post a tier list but we all know that can change. Even though a lot of players feel tier list mean nothing, the truth is they do. However bad match ups can make life hell for certain characters no matter what spot they have in top 5. Even though I see Iori and Kyo in S rank my good friend Sanford Kelly brings us word that the best player in CTF says that Raiden, Terry, and Andy are top. Kyo is mid, I’m not sure about Iori. (even though I think the new Iori is godlike) I really can’t say much on this subject because I have not played the game enough. I do feel that some insight will help. Besides I have a tournament to go to on Sunday and this thread will help
Personally, I havent found a bad matchup in KOF12 like you would in SF4. The game is pretty freaking balanced, more so than SF4 and SF4 is pretty well balanced as well. The problem with the bad match ups in SF4 normally comes with Arcade characters vs Console characters. Since KOF12 doesnt have this difference SNKP/Ignition did a good job at the overall balance of the game. Even with characters that have less moves dont suffer due to all the defensive and offensive options the game has.
I really hope this game is balanced, as for now I feel every character has something to bring to the table. The only character I feel lacking is Elizabeth. I will give her credit though her normals are good. It’s just her specials that seem to be stagnant. Most of her moves seem to be more defensive based. The team system may let her shine as a character because in my opinion I feel she may be a good opener. Her CC in the corner will kill as well. This is one advantage KOF has over SF4 is that the team system lets every character have a say instead having a (snicker!) Vega in the cast. However with her lacking offense I feel the urge to play lame, but the time of 60 wont allow such a thing. I feel she would get rushed down by Chen and Kensou.
Well you need more play time experience with her cause I feel Elizabeth is a very deadly character if you know how to use her right. All her main attack options cause knockdown state that prevent fallbreak. This makes her very strong in short range and helps her keep momentum. Her Etincelles on wake up block gives her frame advantage which opens a lot of doors for her. It can also nullifies projectiles and catch jumpers At long Range she gets free hits on any projectile characters with Reverie-Souhaiter and at mid-range you can counter any pokes with it. If you miss the teleport you can cancel the Reverie-Souhaiter with Reverie-geler to avoid any incoming attacks.
Elizabeth is a defensive character but with the ability to create a lot of momentum.
Ryo versus Benimaru is pretty difficult for Ryo. Benimarus Lightning balls can shut out all of Ryos attacks, and since he needs to get in close to be effective that hurts him alot. And if he gets trapped in the corner hes pretty much screwed.
Elizabeth ain’t lacking. I played one yesterday- She can counter full screen projectiles into big combos. Her offense is a bit lacking, but it’s sufficient to get people to fight back, where she shines.
The only char that feels like he’s missing tools to me is Clark.
I do think there may end up being a few counterpicks situations- Duo Lon I can see countering some folks in particular.
Clark isn’t missing anything. His normals have great range and priority; super easy to suck people into his CC, his basic throws stop him from being too confusing. I don’t really enjoy the Vulcan Punch, but it has it’s uses.
I do think taking away Leona’s jumping D to Super is retarded though…sniffle.
Leona can do Foward-B into super, which I think is sick!
To follow the Elizabeth support, she is actually quite awesome. Her qc+k moves are very versatile and chain into her specials and super, her qcf+p is quick and works well directly off of a lp, her grab is comboable and pretty… not that it matters but I like to look good while raping.
Moving on… Her normals are what really standout for me. Her J.hk has generous reach and active frames, and stuffs crouches. Her J.hp also stuffs crouches, comes out quickly, and packs a little hitstun too (Nothing crazy but i noticed that I have a lot of time to link after landing one off a shorthop, I’ll be surprised if I am wrong). Her f.C also has some reach. Plus, her crouching C pops out quickly.
When I play Elizabeth (in a non lag match) I feel speedy and capable. Her moveset flows… I couldn’t be more literal, you have so many options it’s stupid.
You can do Jumping A into Super, though.
I kinda like duolon against big characters like raiden, seems like duolon can keep them out pretty well to me.
Pretty much though the game seems balanced, all games got matchups, so this sure does. But the matchups seem to typically be based on risk/reward, on moves you’d want to favor against your opponents specific character. For example against a character or opponent who likes lows, you’d do whatever it takes to beat the lows out, so this means some characters have very damaging ways of doing that, some don’t do enough damage, and then with that… those choices would be safe, some unsafe. Say someone like Benimaru wants to beat a hop, he can just use standing B, but for others that’s not so simple, they’d have to use something slower which means they have to be prepared a lil bit faster, or think farther ahead. However, Beni’s standing B is not as rewarding here.
Duo Lon vs Mature seems to be pretty tough for Duo Lon. His normals seems to be wide open for Mature’s DP Punch game. Mature dictates play here, Duo Lon has to be very quiet.
Kyo seems to be in control of every fight. Mainly because he has safe ways of dealing with whatever, and he has risky but rewarding ways to deal with them too, on a surething.
Shen looks like he can beat the living shit out of Elizabeth with delays. So Shen controls the battle.
Shen vs Benimaru looks like Benimaru dictates play, but can’t be risky, because he’s not built to make a huge comeback as much as Shen can here.
Leona vs Raiden seems to be in Raiden’s favor, simply because Leona’s tools to stop him don’t do enough damage, so Raiden can be pretty sloppy, but then he has to be on his toes when Leona has CC or super.
So far this is what it looks like to me, based on my limited experience.
Shen, by the nature of his game, will eventually be in Elizabeths face. The worst place to be. One blocked move (esp. if you forget to CD a normal) and you can say goodbye to 200+ dmg. Her options are ridiculous at that range. What makes the match-up weird, is that both characters have some mind games.
In this match-up I would say that Elizabeth has more at her disposal when it comes to fake outs and dmg potential. Firstly, her teleport cancels into specials and supers. Secondly, She’s very hard to get in on too because her qcf+a/c counts as an anti-air and combos into her super. No fun for close combat characters, unless it’s someone like Terry who can get in and punish.
P.S. I have limited experience too, so some of my comments might be a little BS.
Your exp is probably better than mine, so I’m going to take your word over mine for this.
I just know Shen can deal a boatload up close too, execution demanding though. With Shen up close, it’s around 200 on mistake punish too(that is, if you can finish his moves with qcf kick). They’re both very threatening to each other I guess.
shen can just go to qcf+A if he needs a safe string ender, I don’t see why he should be eating huge block punishes
It’s under the assumption he doesn’t use a safe move. If he is recovering within grab distance, Elizabeth can use her command grab and begin her (brutal) okizeme game. Even if he does a safe move, she can mix-up with a qcf+k, p. It goes forward quickly and surprises people pretty often, plus, the recovery is decent on block.
fyi: qcf+k = fwd teleport counter qcf+k, p= fwd. teleport counter into Etincelles
Based off no experience, I’d say Elisabeth’s only real weakness is her range. Outside of that, she’s downright scary. You have to respect her abilities and damage at all times.
Speaking of Kyo, what do people do with their perspective characters to get breathing room from his poke strings? Mainly talking about when he ends with the downforward D.
kyo downforward D is unsafe on block, punish with a sweep or something
if only the game had a recording feature it wouldn’t be so hard to find this stuff out so I don’t blame you