The Hakan General Discussion Thread

hakan

#1781

[RIGHT] [/RIGHT]

The knockdown times don’t differ that much from counterhit to standard knockdown. Possibly use BDNC meaties instead to make up for the empty time added from the counter hit? Or use a nj. normal to add those extra landing frames to time it with their adjusted wakeup time?

Edit: Also wanted to ask, is there a section on the forums for Hakan’s OS game? I’ve been finding some stuff and didn’t know whether there was a specific section for these . . .


#1782

True but it’s asking you to be pretty aware of counter hits every time you land a f.hk and are going for some oki. Hakan is a deep complex character, this isn’t helping, haha. For instance, empty jump mp after f.hk is amazing, but on counter hit it whiffs, putting yourself in possible trouble.

I never tried the BDNC thing off the counter hit, I ran out of ideas trying to find something positive out of the longer knockdown period, this might work.

Is it normal that a counter hit knockdown creates a longer grounded time?

As for the OS thing, there is a thread somewhere, but not an updated one, someone should get on that, Hakan has some great OS’s.


#1783

I’ve been aware of this issue for a while. It messes up the timing, unfortunately. The only advantage is that you can probably make Hawk’s and Gief’s command throws whiff with a jump in after CH c.hk. I’ll have to test that.


#1784

Guys about Hakan´s OS, I am having problems in time OS against specials that got a startup faster than 6. I read that is not possible to do OS against those moves, someone can confirm that?


#1785

Do you mean safejump OS? Also, which OS setup are you using? Hakan has a lot of different OS’s off his many knockdowns all with specific uses.

With exact timing [slide-press, wiff lp, nj. HK OS slide/ CC/ etc.] will OS block against 5+ frame reversals, so no they very much can be safejumped.

I would want to spearhead this initiative, but I don’t really know a ton of Hakan OS’s aside from the basic ones and what I’ve come up with. Hopefully someone with more information than I will do so soon so I can post in it, haha. Er… anyone working on this currently?


#1786

I was using [slide-press, tiny walk back, f.j.HK OS LK Oil Dive] maybe the time is really specific to use. Could you make a video showing your results?
Thanks a lot.


#1787

Well with setups that involve small steps forward or backward, you have to consider the height of the character as well as the reversal. The timing as you said is very specific as well. I could try to make a video though, I’ve actually been working on stuff for upload, just been busy. I’m in the middle of a move so not sure if the cam is packed up yet either, haha.

And correction, I think OS CC would be punished since the j. HK would wiff and since it’s not a special he would attempt the CC and be stuffed.


#1788

So I’m playing with f.hk, jump-in, oily EX dive against Chun-Li, and it’s a nice set up to get Chun’s jumps, back dashes, etc… But I realize EX bird kick will be a problem and considered how we beat EX bird with c.hk, jump-in, bdnc. I figure, why not try a slight stutter-back dash, as in, instead of 4,4 just before or as you land, you do 4,4 after you land. It worked for me about 75% of the time, making EX bird whiff. All Chuns LOVE to back dash, so if you give them a taste of BDNC-c.hk against bird kick, you have oily EX dive to get their back dash. Otherwise, you have your meaty s.mp combos, etc.Also, you have a chance to block EX bird, even if you don’t cause it to whiff. Probably good against Deejay and Sagat’s reversals as well. Plus, since we know c.lp beats c.hk, jump-in, BDNC, learning to do a stutter back dash with f.hk might be good, because f.hk, jump is nasty against wake-up normals, unlike c.hk, jump in.

Also, against Honda, c.hk, jump, mk dive will beat all his specials, including EX headbutt if you’re far enough away. Only loses to EX butt slam. Not too relevant, because he can just duck under it, but it’s a neat trick to beat EX headbutt, isn’t it?


#1789

I don’t understand what this setup is. A typo maybe? I only ask because I can’t get this to beat anything Honda does.

Edit: Ah, I was doing c.HK at point blank range. I got it to work, but only at max distance did it stuff EX Headbutt. I’ll keep this in this in memory though, might prove useful against an aggressive Honda after that last bit of chip.


#1790

That setup sounds amazing ^

Oh but its not an uncrouchable, and you can’t go over his head?


#1791

Yeah. It’s for fun, mostly. It might come in handy, I suppose. Neat trick.


#1792

If it went over his head it would be reaaaally good, ah well, keep searching for honda stuff, hate that tubster -_-

Also, not sure how many people know this, I’ve know for a while, but for those that don’t know…one of the reasons Hakan becomes so much more beastly with meter is because you can pretty much do f.mp into HP slide without fear. You don’t have that luxury without meter. You have time to confirm the combo if it hits but also FADC the slide if it doesn’t and obviously is executed without mashing hp. What this means is that effectively the opponent is in a position where either they get hit by theslide combo, or get put into a serious pressure/mixup game.


#1793

I could definitely use some general advice from some good Hakan players. I played for about 6 hours today and lost about 3/5 of the matches I played. The thing I am most frustrated about is that I am losing so much to “full on retard” players. I am trying to get a solid ground game using Hakan’s normals to control space and poke. That works pretty well against what I would consider “good/competent” players, but against a Ryu/Ken who binds every button to turbo and is mashing DP and throw every moment that I am near him I lose about 90% of the time. I know it’s pathetic, but I seriously do not know how to deal with this. Since normal safe jumps don’t work against these two characters, what can you do to deal with them safely.


#1794

I do know one thing, that I’m not sure everyone knows. A well timed back-jump air throw works well after a blocked butt slam, to air throw a second butt slam (but not EX butt slam of course). It also dodges EX headbutt, allowing you to jump backward and throw him upon landing. Really useful. Takes a little practice to get the timing right, but it’s not terribly difficult.


#1795

Hi Brett, I am by no means a “good” Hakan player, but I play Hakan exclusively, particularly the Ryu/Ken match-up. I have a lot of friends who aren’t into SF4 but know shoto fundamentals, lol. I also know EXACTLY how you feel, I just went a 30-0 streak, it was the worst one of my life and all because the opponents began to do random stuff like all that jab/ throw/ crossup nonsense, which can be an issue with Hakan because when such things happen, you have GOT to know your options, because (especially dry) crap like this will work on him due to the tools he was given. Here’s what little advice I could give though-

  1. {whiff st. mp, fj. hk OS} is probably Hakan’s best option following slide-press. against these two. ABUSE IT! Even dry, it gives you basically a free j. hk if you time it correctly. It serves as a mixup in itself, because of the uncrouchable lk dive potential should it be blocked and guaranteed 300 and upwards damage on hit. Hit them with that once and scrubby players are sure to mash out next time you set up the safejump which you can negate by doing the standard block string against normals or simply blocking after the hk and punish their DP.

2.Stay oiled. Probably the biggest thing. Hakan needs to be able to focus through their zoning game. He needs that extra defense. He needs to be able to FADNC on wakeup to escape those awful shenanigans. Remember that nonreversal srks can be focused as well, so for Ryus who like to SRK your wakeup, you have an answer to that save his EX SRK. His oiled backdash is great too for when they just start jumping all over you and normally puts you in position to punish trip guard with lp slide should they try to jump in after you. The very end of his backdash can also be cancelled so sometimes a c.HK works to the same effect given your spacing.

  1. Play it safe. Sometimes the best offensive move is to simply keep your distance and let them make the first mistake. A big part of this is to obviously test the waters to see what the players will do in this situation. In the event of flowchart Kens, simply let them DP as they please and punish when you see it. When you really want to go for the oil dive setup, simply feint to see what they do. Holding the dive a bit longer before feinting also baits out reactionary DPs (some players hold down forward after knockdown so when they see you divin’ they only need to push downforward punch). Hakan is all about patience and deception in this regard. It’s hard to not stress this enough. As much as people want to say oil is the genei-jin, I see it more as the ultimate defense than ultimate offense. I find it works as a better rushdown tool only against players with too much respect. If you’re going to set up dives though, max distance setups would probably serve you best. The SS HK dive off of lp Rocket is a great one to use.

-some “safe” tactics you could employ is after any dive- lk oil up, backdash/ step back. If you do this enough times they normally will forget that they’re in 360 range after the lk oil and stop worrying about it. After slide press, backdash, forward dash pretty much puts you in a dead zone against these two. If you have good reactions, this is probably the greatest spacing EVER. Just within heavy/ ex dp range yet outside of most poke ranges. Sets up a lk uncrouchable dive. Within oil’d 360 range. It’s just a great place to be against most characters actually. Crouch tech also serves its purpose fully in these matchups.

I have info on a mixup/ OS setup I’ve been working on following cr. lks if you’d like to know about that. It doubles as an SS setup against Ryu as well. :slight_smile:


#1796

One trick against people mashing DP is to bait them a lot. When you’re oily, just learn to stutter back dash, to make the first stutter very pronounced just as they’re waking, so it looks like a move forward. I don’t know who first started doing this, but I started a while back and have recently noticed one of the top PP X-box Hakan using it as well. For example, dive, lk oil, stutter back dash and then big punish with a hk dive, even against lp uppers. The other trick I use against DP is to 360 into crouching defense for a split second before EX SPD, to block DP and then throw. Also, take advantage of CH, if they do a lot of jabs. Wake-up CH s.mp, plinked c.mk xx slide is a combo. The trick is to instill fear of doing those annoying things with big punishes like that. You can also do a slide FA to bait DP, sliding just out of range and coming back to punish. Oh, and another fun trick is to do wake-up dives that stuff DP, e.g. slide-press, oily back dash, slight delay, hk dive. EX uppers take very little in this case, only hitting once, too. That’s my favorite against scrubs, and they often never learn. Anyway, hope some of these were helpful. I wouldn’t say I’m a good Hakan, but I know this stuff makes scrubby shotokens pay.

Also, remember that f.hp will trade favorably with lp uppercuts, which is nice and will give you CH against jabs.


#1797

This one is frustrating, when your opponent does c.lp to dodge under the j.hk. I’ve played many shotos that know that trick, sadly, and unless you empty jumped, even EX rocket won’t punish them on landing :P. Poop. I’ve actually switched my wake-up to baiting, uncrouchable dives and some trick wake-up OS normals, personally. I do well with that instead, although I do go back to whiff s.mp, j.hk every so often to mix it up.


#1798

I’ve not had that happen to me too much, so much so that I completely forgot about it, hahaha. In that event though I just switched to empty jumping as you said :stuck_out_tongue:
What about [slide press] tiny step back, nj. HK instead? I’ve gotten this to safejump 3 frame reversals as much as people say it’s impossible. It’s just hella hard to time. Anyone can confirm? I think the extra distance gives you just enough time to make it to the ground and recover to block.

Edit: It does work as a 3 frame safejump while whiffing light SRK as well as counterhit on c.lps! :smiley: As I said though, hella difficult to time. Not even worth the risk. Amazing though. Haha.


#1799

is it me or are alot of these things you guys are caling OSs just dive or shoto crossup setups,
or am I missing somthing very crucial?

are you OSing the slide on these shoto jumpin setups?


#1800

Can someone please explain to me how the fuck blanka’s U1 beats Hakan U2 if Hakan activates second?