The Hakan General Discussion Thread

hakan

#1801

OSing the dive, for when the shoto whiffs his upper.

Blanka’s U1 has always done that, unfortunately. Sadly, EX uppers now aren’t beat by U2 but they whiff each other. At least you don’t get hit by them, though.


#1802

So I’ve been playing further with wake-up BDNC, and I find it very interesting. For example, after slide press, jump in, you can press back for a split second and then press back again based on when you know they’re waking up and cancel into a normal. Backdash has quite a bit of leeway to do it slowly, so you can focus on the 2nd back and time it to dodge reversals and normals. Takes some concentration, and it’s weird to do, but it seems to work pretty well. I also found it interesting to BDNC-c.hk against Sagat’s lp upper, which whiffs and gives you exactly enough time to U1, which is kinda fun.


#1803

oh allright,
never thought of that for shotos
usually my opponents go for HP srks and I slide/press the recovery
i guess if they start doing LP srks this will catch them.
Does it also catch MP, HP and EX? Or do you have to delay the dive?
I usually use this type of OS for Balrog only, anyone else it is useful for?

i believe if blanka is point blank you have to block low then immediately U2 (buffer while in block if you slow), the timing can be very tight online. If he is not point blank you can just whip it out after his ultra freeze.
seems to work for me anyway


#1804

It is just as important to catch back dash. No, it won’t catch mp or hp. If you’ve got the right technique, you can delay the dive, but it’s quite tricky to pull off. It’s something I’ve worked on off and on and am not consistent with it so far. As long as your opponents are not doing lp, I guess it’s not very useful.


#1805

I have to say, I’m still having a lot of fun with the following technique: f.mp (or another move with slow recovery, e.g. f.lp), 360 into crouching defense, delayed hk dive. I get reversals a lot as well as backdash. I haven’t mastered punishing neutral jumps so well with this yet, and I keep forgetting to do EX dive, when I suspect back jump. Still, this works. I used it yesterday a few times on a pretty tough Viper (3000 pp main). After punishing with hk dive a few times, they stopped reversals and back dash, and I was able to f.mp, EX rocket again after a couple punishes. Works wonders and due to the split second of defense that you have right after f.mp, it’s not terribly dangerous, as long as you use it sparingly, just as a means to throw them off. What was really funny was when she tried to punish me at the end of a round, when I did slide, FADC, f.lp, using a normal throw to beat what she thought would be an oily rocket. I hk dove her throw instead and won the round. lol I’ll post that battle, if I can find it in my battle log.


#1806

With the safejump Hk after slide I’m pretty sure you can use st.lp instead to beat any crouching normal attempts. Also you have to remember, an opponent using a crouching normal to get out is still suspect to spd or ultra 1, so it’s not so simple an escape.

And yeah Mordie you brought up the point of f.lp, I was trying this in some matches a little while back and it’s definitely possible to do f.lp on a standing opponent into LK oil dive on reaction.


#1807

Do you mean against a neutral jump on the way down or a whiffed reversal? Yeah, that works, too. I’m intent on beating back dash as well, personally. Got to deter that, so I can rocket them.


#1808

No i meant if you were poking with a f.lp, you can buffer a 360 motion during it, and LK oil dive it it hits


#1809

this sounds like a viable tactic against an up/back sim


#1810

I’m thinking that would be unlikely to be uncrouchable. That works?


#1811

Yeah, doesn’t need to be counter hit. The same is possible with f.lk, but I prefer f.lp since it gives you more time to buffer.


#1812

Crazy. I’ll have to practice that.


#1813

So Dieminion on his twitter was complaining that everyone has unblockables against Guile. His tweet was “Did you know that more than half of the cast has unblockable setups specifically for Guile? Even Hakan vs Guile is 6-4 Hakan because of it.”

So…does anybody know about this unblockable that apparently exists against guile?


#1814

Wow I did not know this time to look for footage of this.


#1815

I figure hes talking about the crossup where Hkn doesnt always crosover? (slide/press, whiff MP, j.RH)
this is my B&B vs guile
technically not unblockable
but dont you only have a couple frames where the block direction switches sides?

or am i crazy?
Hakan has a lot of info to digest.


#1816

I dunno, I don’t think he’d count that as unblockable. Dieminion is a smarter player than that. In fact if you mistime the J.hk its actually blockable from either direction. :confused: So far from unblockable. lol

On the other hand, ignorance about Hakan is still very high.


#1817

well, he’s forced to eat the hit, wakeup wiff reversal flash kick, or stand block it [losing his reversal] and get 50/50’d by an absolute uncrouchable oil dive. He can backdash the dive, but if you know he’s onto the dive and opts for that, you simply delay your dive by 10ish frames… or do a meaty that hits a recovering backdash.

guile has some shit options in that scenario.


#1818

I don’t want to start a whole thread on this, but are there any other uses for SS Dives aside from stuffing Ryu’s light and heavy SRK and Ken’s light SRK?
I’ve been trying to find other SS Dives for the primary reversals of other characters and haven’t been having much luck. I was hoping that in theory, there would be a SS Dive for every viable reversal (tiger upper, jet upper, etc.) but it seems that the placement of the hitboxes of both the SRK and the Dives is what makes it possible as well as their properties. Some reversals have throw invincibility as well, which throws this whole notion out the window.

I know it’s possible to SS Dive Guile’s Flash Kick as I’ve done it on accident quite a few times, not sure which version it was though :confused:

Maybe it would be worth while to find SS Dives for as many primary reversals as we can? I mean it wouldn’t hurt.


#1819

SS Dives work against Akuma, E.Ryu and Oni as well, but other than that, just do regular uncrouchables. I experimented a lot with this, when I first figured out how to stuff dragon uppercuts, and I couldn’t find anything special for other characters. I’ve found it useful to be able to stuff E.Honda’s butt slams, but that’s not uncrouchable and doesn’t require a particular distance to pull off so much. Just do it in close, so you dive over his head if he ducks.


#1820

Well the point being is that SS Dives work on a very small number of the cast, while the rest still have escapes. If you were unable to find anything on anyone else though, I probably wouldn’t have any more luck than you did. I have been exploring the properties of numerous reversal options and most of them show that their throw invuln. window is often right when a dive should be hitting for an uncrouch. dive.
The Honda SS is an example of how dives can stuff a move when that throw invuln. ends/ after the initial startup window has ended. It’s cool to be able to stuff specials with grabs, but we need them to be uncrouchable as well.

I’m gonna keep looking, because I know there has got to be more somewhere! Haha. If only the dive grab box was extended further back. :frowning: