SFV plus my last year in general can be summed up thusly…
Yes, it’s a lack of actual story-telling vision that trades on short-term shock & awe over long-term investment. That short-term tactic, just like in comics, burns resources, burns invested fans and NEVER has the sort of return on deposit that actually thinking things through does. Retcons are generally just as lazy as the Warf-effect used to initially boost Akuma over Bison. They’re both short-sighted and stupid writing techniques.
Bolded part is completely wrong. His fighting style does not “revolve entirely around his psychokinetic abilities”. It is stated numerous times that he has tremendous physical abilities, especially kicking abilities, which he uses Psycho Power to bolster.
As noted, look at Bison since the beginning: two of his three signature attacks are kicking attacks that do not involve Psycho Power. Yes, Psycho Power is his Ace in the Hole, so to speak, since his strongest techniques utilize it, but he has a strong physical foundation that he has (also) built up through training.
re: martial artist
BTW, as far as I’m concerned and as far as JPN media is concerned, what constitutes the difference between a “martial artist” and a plain “fighter” is training. It seemingly can be any kind of training, even the wrong type of training, but as long as a character is practicing something on a regular basis that they believe will make him/her a better fighter, then that character counts as a martial artist.
Because the type of “training” is so free form, it vastly expands what can count as a “martial artist”. IMO Rose counts as a martial artist, since even if she does 100% psychic exercises and nothing physical, that still counts as “training” for her fighting style. Rufus is also a martial artist, even if a bad one who uses wrong or possible ineffectual training methods. Same with Dan.
In JPN media, “martial artist” is a state of mind (“I want to improve in my chosen art”) and being (“I will practice X techniques to help me improve my chosen art”) - the result of said training is irrelevant. If Dee Jay’s only martial arts training was, say, dancing in clubs with maracas every night, as long as he did so with the purpose of it improving his skills, then it counts as training whether it works or not.
Clearly we’re not going to agree on this. I still maintain that the world exhibited by the later SFs are a natural progression of the world shown in SF2 (but not the one in SF1), a.k.a. the only part of SF continuum that counts. For whoever suggested it, I would not agree that KoF handles the progression any better - they’re about the same really. KoF does have better story telling in general though.
re: Bison on podium
Are people forgetting SF2’s roots? A lot of that artwork was done at SF2’s creation, i.e. before it blew up into a mega entity. Regardless of backstory, the original SF2 tournament was just that - a tournament. So there’s no reason why M.Bison, in the beginning before SF2 blew up in popularity, wouldn’t stand on the winner’s podium in second place next to the winner that wasn’t Guile or Chun-li.
re: Muscle Bomber characters
I would love to know the situation on the MB characters myself. They’re referenced quite a lot in SF lore, but are literally never seen outside of the three MB games. I wonder if Tetsuo Hara completely owns the visual rights to the characters or something? Even Strider, only co-owned by Capcom, has more appearances outside of his own game than the MB characters do!
What’s even more stupid is the fact that Capcom can acknowledge Bison being SGS by Akuma in a crossover game (SFXT) and completely omit this fact in the main game.
Even better, friggin SNK has no problem pinpointing Bison being thrashed by Akuma in *their *own game.
For SF4, all Capcom had to do was add one quote, or one piece of dialogue that showed Akuma thrashed Bison. You have two of the biggest names in SF and there’s not one point where it can made clear to the audience that a battle or attack took place…ever? Come on.
And weightlifters also have tremendous lifting abilities. That doesn’t make them fighters.
As long as Capcom continues to list “Psycho Power” as his fighting style, I’m going to keep treating him as untrained in martial arts. And as long as he remains untrained in martial arts, I’m going to continue to consider him a bad SF character.
By that logic, I could practice shooting people with a sniper rifle on a regular basis and count myself as a martial artist. I do believe it will make me a better fighter after all.
Guile’s SF2CF entry was a pretty interesting read. I especially like how the Sonic Boom and Flash Kick are described, they seem like some top notch techniques. Go home to be a family man and cue the Guile theme.
The tournament most definitely happened. Bison used it to attract the strongest world warriors out there to find a spare body for himself, Cammy, Chun and Guile used the entry to reach Bison and destroy him, and I suppose at the finals - this happened:
I actually think the sole reason why Capcom hasn’t named the concrete winner of the World Warrior tournament is not because they themselves didn’t care or didn’t know - but because the Finals (against Bison) were compromised, by the Heroes, attacking Bison, so technically the tournament itself never actually concluded
So you’re disregarding all his SF2 profile stuff then? Okay.
You’re entitle to your own opinion. You’re not entitled to your own facts. They explicitly state that he’s a martial artist (only now we get info that his Double Knee Press has Muay Thai roots). You can question the likes of Rose if you want, but not M.Bison. As has been stated, his wanting to be the best fighter supersedes his world domination crap!
By JPN media logic, that’s absolutely correct. If you called your fighting style “Sniper Rifle Arts” and practiced it constantly, it would count.
By the way, don’t forget that Nanto Bakusatsu Ken (essentially dymanite throwing) is a thing in Hokuto no Ken (anime-only though). Or hell: Half the shit that passed through Ranma 1/2 (“Martial Arts Rhythmic Gymnastics” and “Martial Arts Cheerleading”, or the styles developed by Genma that basically were meant to break into houses). “Martial Arts” is to Japan as “Mutant powers” is to Marvel Comics.
@DarthEnder I know you haven’t been following my translations on the guides consistently so I thought I should fill you in on M. Bison’s martial art ability.
*From the Street Fighter 2 Complete File. *
So yes, M. Bison actually has martial arts ability as well as his Psycho Power. Having his fighting style listed as Psycho Power would ultimately mean he fights using techniques that have all been boosted with Psycho Power. Ultimately he has fighting ability without the use of Psycho Power.
1- Of course Bison is a skilled as fuck super strong-fast-agile and coordinated motherfucker martial artist as he’s able to punch, kick, throw and overall out-tech (just think the flashyness of things like head stomps or his leg throw) opponents of every size in the highest level martial arts tournament.
Also perfect high kicks, straight punches, front flip heel kicks, crossed arms vertical stomps… that’s is’nt exactly bar brawler style
Not even Necalli is that. Maybe Blanka is the only true not martial artist
Now it’s fallen a lil bit on the stupid wizard side, but until SF4 he was an absolute punchkicking martial badass.
That was the whole concept about him, he’s good enough to kick the shit out of you as he is, but added to that he have fucking magic Psycho Power
To understand the concept design SF characters have on general physical and spiritual power in different ratio: imagine Ryu being 60/40, Sim being 10/90, Gief 0/100… Bison design was about “cheat” the total limit and be 100/100
Akuma does’nt hate him because he use Psycho Power, he hate him because he help himself with technology/external source instead of inner power.
And probably he hate him on general ALSO for the Psycho Power, but that work well at show what failure of martial artist Akuma is (thing that Gouken before, and Ryu now are understanding), since Bison is dependant from PP exactly like Akuma depend on SNH.
Ryu refused SNH and he’s making himself stronger (correct path), Akuma losed himself to give space to the SNH (bullshit path)
Akuma pretending to piss on Bison integrity is just part of the concept of show what blind douche Akuma is.
Akuma/Bison are just two faces of the same coin (trade humanity for superhuman power), his blindness is exactly despise Bison more than anybody else when he’s the closest to him (so basically hating on himself), it’s like see two religious fanatics that are basically the same aside the God they worship (PP/SNH), but yet they feel to be each other opposite.
2- Tbh Sniper Marksmanship can be in some way be considered a martial art, as it is the evolution of the bow.
And archery by some is considered an actual martial art.
And btw “Martial” come from Mars, the roman God of war. So martial literally mean "related to war"
And in 2016 a sniper rifle is more war related than spinning back kicks.
Whoa, I absolutely love the description of his moves here. What’s interesting is the old tidbit about the science team helping him develop his abilities even more. I remember that from over a decade ago being discussed but could never remember where it came from. This has interesting implications for the SF universe concerning ki/chi, it may not be a mystical force that the US govt and others are oblivious to. Here, from my understanding, is that they don’t fully know of it, but there’s enough that they don’t just outright reject it as mystical mumbo jumbo.
@DarthEnder The thing is, Bison’s always been a martial artist. His whole thing isn’t that he’s born a psychic mutant. He trained in some martial art that expanded his overall skill and gave him these abilities with an unknown master and other students. In one of the conversations we had earlier in this thread, we looked at how in his old material they stated he was born under an evil star, succeeded his master and murdered him, slowly built up Shadaloo, was pursued by authorities in his early days and disappeared when a war broke out only to resurface ages later as the Bison we know. All of that stresses that he had/has a rather strong martial arts connection. He just has evolved in a new way and psycho power being his everything would make sense to be listed as his fighting technique. It’s like how at first Ryu and Ken were intended to utilize judo and some other skills. When someone evolves something enough and have their own style they’re going to put their own brand name on it. Look at Dan. Not the best example, but he was trained in Anatsuken, washed out of Gouken’s favour, and made his own style in name and variation from the Hadou bros.
Heck, the psychic stuff could be explained away by saying that in addition to rigorous training, the art he was a part of required meditation in intense and life-threatening manners to open up the soul and spirit connection or something. With the way that martial arts in SF works on the physical body, having a strong meditation and mental path could influence the mind and do freaky things as well.
@Ultima Props for mentioning Ranma’s anything goes martial arts. That’s what I frequently look at and cite when this subject comes around. Japan in entertainment has quite a bit of leeway and* fun* with what counts as martial arts and it’s why I dig SF.
Interesting points, especially on the origin of Martial arts, never thought of it like that. On the Blanka point I’d disagree with you. He doesn’t really show it in game, but basically they said he based his fighting style on observing wild animals. He may not have anything official, but in the spirit of things, that’s not too different from how Kung Fu was based on observing and interpreting animal movements. If I was redesigning him for SF5, I’d make some sweeping changes. He knows Dan and Dan, despite being…well Dan…has foundation in martial arts form. I could see Blanka learning a thing or two and mixing it all together to combine his rough, bestial fighting skill with some martial arts and really refine the animal mimicry. Not quite as complex as Gen; but more like the basic concept and having a few moves in his arsenal than entire styles based on Crane AND Mantis;
Rolling Attack [Monkey Based: Swinging and cannon ball launching utilizing agility]
It’s interesting to note that the Hadoken had been described as having reached a level of Senjutsu, meaning that “ki” attacks are still classified under an esoteric art even in the SF universe. It’s not something someone should be able to learn from basic martial arts training alone.
Unlike a Hadoken, Guile’s Sonic Boom doesn’t rely on the bodies torsional force, but upon the speed of the arms and the shockwave created. Just from the description it sounds like it uses less “ki” overall, but makes up for it with the actual shockwave.
The “flash” in a Somersault Kick is not “ki” energy, but a pure sound shockwave which creates a vacuum pressure around itself that can split the moisture in the air.
Overall Guile’s and Nash’s special techniques are described as sounding even fiercer than their Shotoclone counterparts.
I think the difference between the two is that the hadoken is intended to win a martial arts match. Charlie, on the other hand, seems to have developed the sonic boom and flash kick with a military mindset IE: to kill the hell out of people. Those attacks are lethal as SHIT.
I don’t think the ancient etymology of the word is really relevant to the modern meaning. That kind of ridiculously broad interpretation means blowing people up with drones or dropping nukes on cities is still a “martial art”.
Take martial arts, consider just "arts"
An art is a discipline that you learn, a discipline (kick-faces, painting, play a violin) is a knowledge that you get from a master, that usually learned it from his master and so on
Applied to martial arts these movements they teach you go to replace your istinctive (animal) reaction with a more efficient movement… it does’nt erase your istinct, it become your new istinct. But is teached.
If you’re trained well if somebody try to punch you you don’t THINK about what you learned in the gym, you just istinctively do a boxing dodge/block because is becomed your new istinct.
The point of martial arts is that generation after generation, master after master, the experience get cumulated.
Four masters ago a Master losed 3 teeths because at that time the way of block that strike sucked, so pissed he searched a solution and developed a better way to block, and four master after you get the right defense from that strike without have to lose YOUR 3 teeths.
Think technology, we don’t start each time reinventing the wheel or discovering fire, we are born with PC and planes, cool shit.
That’s the basic concept of Martial Art and culture on general (and culture differentiate us from animals waaay more than intelligence itself), wich is what Blanka does’nt have
Necalli look wild, but his movements still show a style, coded controlled movements, like a primitive martial art.
Also Nec come from a culture, lived with other humans, learned from and fought other humans
Blanka had to use his own experience (wich erase the whole concept of martial art), no master, and not even peoples to fight… his fighting was about hunt animals and not get eated by animals
His style does’nt replace istinct because his style is his istinct+personal experience(3 teeths), aside being smarter he’s not more martial artist than a monkey, a jaguar, a caiman or whatever else tried to eat him
Btw it can become a style/culture if he will ever teach it to somebody (becoming the first Grandmaster of that shit), like for that Tarzan Dan alt lol
ps: kung fu animals styles was’nt about imitating animals.
Was about two little chinese with fun staches punching the shit out of each other faces. Then they enjoyed it so much that they keep searching new creative ways to keep beat the shit out of each other, and doing so they took inspiration from animals movements.
Blanka lacked the fun stache and a little chinese to punch in the face.
Blanka never learned from animals how to punch chinese peoples, he learned from animals how to survive in amazonian jungle, wich as only possible darwin path turned him into a giant greenmonkeyjaguar able to generate electricy.
Wich in SF world is good enough to fuck up humans too, even if he never (or for most of his life) trained for that