Nah i think it was just about SF4 being a bit trashier and louder style wise, theyr Evil Ryu just try to be Asura’s Wrath kind of cool
Same with Akuma, i think in SFV he’s getting a bit “Oni” in a much much more classy way character design wise, compared to the cheap DragonBall villain he was in SF4
I don’t like the Evil Ryu thing on general, but if must be i like it to be a more visually subtle but extreme change on his intentions rather than a total redesign to be marketing cool
Essentially characterization wise in same scenario
Ryu karate-punch your face with a power adequate to knock you down, help you stand up and say "good fight, let’s do this again one day"
Evil Ryu karate-punch your throat with 100% power, then walk past your dead body
No excessive flashy stuff, dragonballization or whatever
CvS did it well… give him iconic red yes like Akuma, ok with the dark gray gi as it create viseual difference, a bit of more reddish skin and maybe a texture that add a bit of visible veins on his arms/neck/face
I think that may be the case in SFV, specialy if like i hope he will be just an NPC Boss Fight and NOT a character they must actually sell
I will like this too, but S3 intro seem to suggest the opposite sadly
At this point i hope they at least write it well, and more than that i hope it be some shitty OP NPC rather than a wasted playable slot that could be used infinitely better on some not-Ryu character… i already got a Ryu in SFV, use slots for anything else than power-up version of existing characters
You can “reject” all you want, but SF canon tell a different story
You don’t even need to call it Dragon Ball, in real life you got peoples that are born naturally better for fighting.
Even in pro fight sport at elite levels… i assure you the #24 ranked fighter train just as much (if not more) than the #1 Champ, but we don’t born all the same
Not counting the SnH as it’s something he “fall” into (so i will jump Akuma/Bison attracted to it), still you got stuff like
-it’s implied he got great talent/spirit etc, most of other characters recognize it
-he’s one of the few characters that completely dedicated his life to training and improve
-it’s implied for good part of his story he fought “holding back” to some extent to keep control (of SnH)
-large majority of characters better than him are much older, and in SF age tend to be a factor (as training/experience/ki), implying he already reached a great level for his age
-the MU thing is not some free gift… it’s supposed to be a very high level state of ki that took a Master like Gouken lot of years to reach/master
-Alex SF3 ending with Ryu friendly treat him like a noob, and Alex is an extremely talented/gifted fighter himself for his age
-And last, the most clear one where you got ORO see in Ryu the potential to be his successor… iirc reducing in his argument of the best young prospects to Ryu and Gill
I think if you watch my avatar and compare it with my usual posting, is hard find anything where i’m being “fanboy” (outside V.Rosso, #vrossobless). specially for SRK forum standards lol
Ryu (like some others) while fighting in optimal conditions IS above most rest of the cast, this is just about know SF canon.
Dispute that, is just bet on the wrong horse
For how i see it the S3 intro handle it well adding an unaware Sagat to the formula: seem like the plan was just let Ryu and Sagat clash and weaken each other, then trap an exhausted Ryu, as i believe SFV Sagat is going to be pretty strong
Is more or less what was Juri’s intent in SF4 making clash Bison & Seth (and did’nt worked because Seth was much inferior)
Street Fighter 1 Ryu: Defeated countless warriors. Was outmatched against Sagat, but was able to take the victory when the SnH took over.
Street Fighter Alpha Ryu: Meets Sakura, loses to Ken, does ok against a holding-back Akuma. Briefly falls under Bison’s control before breaking out of it. Not much else. Ryu was pretty confused throughout this saga, so he wasn’t fighting at his best.
Street Fighter 2 Ryu: Implied to make it to the finals in his ending. Fought alongside the others against Bison after the tournament.
Street Fighter 4 Ryu: The SnH is an issue for Ryu again. Defeated Seth in TTB. Lost to Gouken and had his powers briefly sealed. Fought Sagat, Ken, and Sakura. Mostly fun sparring matches.
Street Fighter V Ryu: Reached a new level of power that allowed him to defeat Necalli and the powered-up Bison. Still no match for Akuma.
Street Fighter 3 Ryu: Outclassed by Oro. Outclasses Alex.
I’m good with Ryu’s progress throughout the series. It’s not like he was always incredibly strong. He had to build towards it.
Actually it really isn’t “just cuz”. The man lives and breathes fighting; he has forsaken much of our modern comforts in the stoic and diligent pursuit of mental and physical self-improvement. If you factor in that he is possibly related to Akuma and Gouken by blood, then he also has a natural predisposition towards fighting prowess.
Consider also that Ryu would not be where he is today without people seeing the good in him and helping him. He attracts good people into his life just as much as he attracts the foul gaze of the likes of Bison and Akuma.
Yes he has plot armor (who doesn’t in SF besides Marz, Seth and Goutetsu?) but make no mistake, Ryu doesn’t win by invoking Deus Ex Machina, he wins through sheer force of will - Mind over matter.
To be honest in the immense skyline of OP protagonists offered by japanese media, Ryu is about one of the most fair and motivated ones achievements wise
-got trained and raised since early childhood by the best Master in one of best martial arts of SF world
-he trained basically every day since childhood, train more than anybody else, got less “distractions” (family, job, missions, revenge etc)
-he still lose here and there
-there’s a decent number of characters still superior to him
Peoples got silly mad at Capcom giving Bison to Ryu in ASF, as if was about hype Ryu… while on reality it was more about honor M.Bison as Boss
If they gave Bison to Chun/Guile etc, Ryu will still have got his Necalli fight.
Without the Ryu vs Bison, the Necalli one will have been his ASF hype moment and will have looked a “final duel” instead a sub-boss type of clash
SF is still a japanese game with anime narrative, and there you just don’t throw the lion to dogs, you make him die by the fangs of another apex predator
This by somebody that was ok with Nash being the one destroying Bison by kamikaze sacrifice… but KamikazeNash > Chun/Guile/Cammy/my uncle/etc
I’ve seen hilarious fanfictions on SRK praised as “much better” endings for ASF, i’m ok with the one we got… maybe not THE best, it could have been much worse lol
They could have made clear that Nash’s sacrifice got a key role (extra mode of ASF hint it) changing his costume to the ripped one, but aside that they gave Bison a decent end
I think the reason why they went with Bison’s main costume is because they want the final battle to have them both be in their iconic get up at the ready.
What would’ve helped gotten the point across is something symbolic being destroyed from Bison, like Nash burning his cape (Very SF2 Animated Movie but makes sense). It’s a small thing, but it goes a long way because this is the big bad, and he just demonstrated that he can fall. It’s like when Leonidas gives a small cut to Xerxes in 300. Leonidas dies anyway, but not before showing those who are alive that Xerxes is not invincible.
I think originally Capcom intended the squad of Kanzuki Ninjas to be Ken, Chun-Li, Cammy, and possibly Guile just like in the Cinematic Opening. That would’ve been way more badass than a bunch of poorly modelled ninjas. They didn’t even try to use guns and this was the most dangerous man on the planet at that moment in time.
That whole sequence of events needed to unfold like the opening Cinematic.
Ken/Cammy/Chun-Li/Guile vs Bison - He brushes them all away just like we saw (a nice contrast to how they were able to pin him down in the Viper Aftermath OVA). They try to go at him again but Guile stops them when he sees Nash.
Nash x Bison happens. Nash burns Bison’s cape or causes Bison’s hat to fall who then picks it up just in time for Ryu.
Ryu x Bison happens.
I agree with @Cestus that the fight was as much about Ryu being the hero, as it was about honoring Bison as the Boss. This is why - And I really mean this - I would’ve been okay if Bison’s canonical death was what we saw in ASF. He went out on his feet, smiling. It was great.
@Cestus@Daemos I agree slightly here. Yes, Chun/Guile/Cammy had more claim to defeat Bison than Ryu. But look at it from SF3, Chun-Li has found a new reason to fight by the end of SFV in the form of Li-Fen. By Li-Fen popping up it gives Chun-Li some closure for her “revenge” plot by making her invest in something new and worth it. Nash did his part by severely weakening Bison meaning that Guile was out of the picture and Cammy was never out for Bison but for answers in SF2 and made it her duty to free the dolls which she succeeded. Out of all the characters, Ryu is the only one who was affected by Bison but was never involved in the story after they met.
For Bison, it’d make sense both timeline wise and plot wise for how he went out. By destroying Nash and attempting to fight Ryu. It makes the Illuminati’s efforts null and void which leads to the position for SF3 without making any contradictions. It also makes Bison have one more great feat under his belt before he goes.
Yes, I’m not happy how some characters were done in ASF but most of the characters got the closure they needed to finally progress from their Alpha-SF4 characterizations. It’s not what most of us wanted but it’s good enough.
As someone who was waiting for Ryu Vs Bison since…forever, I was mostly satisfied with the climax in SFV. They were building towards it forever. Back before SFV was even thought of, I kept thinking about Rose’s statements (Alpha 3 and SF4) on needing Ryu intact for the fateful day when he’d take on Bison. I just kept wondering when that day was going to be a reality.
Would I have preferred a more gradual build-up between Ryu and Bison during ASF before the final battle? Definitely. Same with the handling of many characters. I still prefer SFV’s story to many other fighting games despite that, though. I can barely playthrough many other stories without getting bored quickly. I’m always hearing about how bad SFV’s story is, but a lot of it is exaggerated.
The weirdest thing I have read today is somebody calling Ryu OP “Just cause” or “cause lazy writing” lol. If there is a main character within this kind of anime narritive (to put it some way) that has had to work his way up in order to earn his stripes is Ryu. And again, as it has been already said here, this is a guy that dedicates his life to training and self improvement in its entirity since his early years; having said that it is not entirely outside of the realms of possibility that Ryu will have some moments through SF Story where he shines or displays remarkable power.
Bison vs Ryu at the end of A Shadow Falls makes sense, it’s the iconic protagonist versus the iconic villain. The problem with that was the way it was executed, that it was build up poorly and the story wasn’t able to create satisfying subplots for the characters that were denied a confrontation with Bison.
Yes, Chun-Li got the Li-Fen subplot, Cammy got the Dolls subplot and Guile the Nash subplot, those subplots were supposed to give these characters a satisfying conclusion to their stories while leaving Bison to Ryu, on paper this is perfect. In practice: Li-Fen and Chun-Li got barely any screen time so their subplot felt subpar, Cammy had a pretty good subplot overall but she never got satisfaction over Vega and it was Rashid that effectively freed the Dolls, and Guile/Nash relationship straight up sucked in ASF. Meanwhile Ryu barely showed up at all until the end just in time to take on Bison, for the simple reason that he’s the main protagonist and he has to beat the main boss.
I think Capcom had a good story on paper for ASF, but then faltered in its execution. Even if it makes perfect sense for Ryu to be Bison’s final foe the way the buildup for that final battle was executed made it feel random and forced, and since Chun-Li and Guile’s subplots were pretty bad those two characters in particular felt cheated.
In short: ASF’s basic plot is fine, but fundamentally it’s also poorly written.
Ryu fighting Bison is a great conclusion as an idea, but you need proper buildup for that and you need to put more work on those subplots.
@Phantom_Miria Your comment explains everything. I’d also like to add the hypocrisy in Chun-Li’s arc. In her character story we are told of a flashback of how Nash+Guile taught Chun-Li to not rush herself. In ASF, she does just that, however at the same time we get her interactions with Li-Fen where she shows to be the level-headed and understanding woman she becomes to be in SF3 when prior, we only saw that “nurturing” side when she fought Cammy in Alpha 3.
It seems they want to create drama but they are so superficial with it. This is what I meant when I talked about how Rashid ruined a part of the story with his humour during the Nash scene. This could’ve been avoided if instead, Rashid made a simple deduction of the events at hand and Cammy spots the chess piece leading to a fight between the two while Guile+Chun-Li confront Nash. Some things though were done excellently like the Illuminati’s involvement and Alex’s small role not contradicting anything established in SF3.
To conclude, the story could have had great structure but something went terribly wrong between the actual implementation of the story itself. It has the basic story beats. I’d like to speak about Nash’s story in SFV and how it succeeded and failed at different areas but that warrants another comment.
I think what would’ve helped the final battle was more context. This could’ve been solved with a more comprehensive character story for Ryu that touches on his history with Bison. Capcom could’ve also supplemented this final battle with a much richer pre-fight dialogue where Ryu and Bison, at the very least Bison could’ve talked about the “plan” and given us a little backstory on himself, Necalli, and what he sees in Ryu that made him wait all these years for this battle. As it currently is, if you’re not completely familiar with the canon and its many times obscure details, the entire thing between the two characters would seem out of place. Maybe the choice of words were more layered and meaninful in the Japanese VA.
The silence of Bison and Ryu throughout ASF made their conflict feel like a clash of two forces rather than two people. I guess that was the point to some extent, but like I said it would’ve benefited from better dialogue before/after the fight.
@Daemos I’d agree that the problem was context. We weren’t provided with anything prior that would connect Ryu and Dhalsim to Shadowlaw and Necalli wasn’t connected enough to Bison to actually serve as a hindrance to Ryu. Had we gotten something that connected Necalli to Bison or maybe a scene where Bison awakens Necalli then the story would’ve been that much better. In that way, it can also be interpreted that Necalli would make Ryu master the “Mu” and use it to defeat Bison which adds a sense of ironic justice to Bison as it also highlights that his downfall wasn’t Ryu but rather the actions he caused like the Dolls, Charile’s death etc.
I would’ve liked Bison’s story costume to be how he’d look if he pushed his Psycho Power even further above his limits.
Ryu takes the 1st round. Bison smiles, then draws out more of his Psycho Power. He’d lose his hat and have a damaged uniform, sure. I just think it would’ve been a more fitting scene for the final battle. That’s similar to Team Japan’s battle with Rugal. He was drawing out the Orochi Power throughout the fight, but it eventually became too much for his body and blew him up. Obviously I wouldn’t want Bison to go out in such a manner. Hell no. I just think it would’ve been nice to see Ryu (in the form of a cutscene) at least struggle in the battle to put more emphasis on Bison’s power and merit as the final boss.
I would’ve at least liked another Round after Bison says “We’re not done yet”.
Bison would try to perform something like Psycho Charge on Ryu (leading to the image you posted), but there’s a power surge that sends them flying apart. Ryu slams against the wall and Bison crashes into one of those big computers (a nod to the endings of the SF live action movie and American cartoon). Bison then emerges from the burning rubble (looking like the image you posted), and we get a round 2.
It ends just like ASF after that more or less.
I would hesitate to call her an apprentice. She could just be a minion, the first of his new clan.