i really hate to start a new thread, especially with the hot button topic of items, but i felt this needed to be addressed for any proof that most items are indeed combatable…
after testing, i feel there are some items that should be in and should be out.
but personal feelings aside, this is about finding which weapons are TOO GOOD and which ones are beatable.
so post up your counter tactics for weapons. i’ll try and keep up with this thread and update first post to whatever people find that’s solid.
After 15 minutes of testing, i’ve never been so scared… to pick up a hammer.
the hammer has so many holes. granted, the reward for hitting someone with a hammer is very good… and usage, well… you basically walk forward and if it hits, you’re good.
but in all honesty, out of all of the weapons, this easily ranks bottom 4-5 in flexibility. you basically can walk forward or jump into people to get hits… you control nothing else.
this in turn opens up a defensive game that will make it very hard to hit anyone with a decent amount of game.
first step to defending the hammer is to get either on the same level as the hammer or below. being on top of the hammer is indeed asking to be killed. do not jump or escalate in anyway… stay the same level as the hammer or below.
now, the hammer user has really only one usage… walk into you. and the hammer… is easily blocked.
when you block the hammer, it will push you backwards. it basically spaces out so you get more time to recharge your shield and more time and space for him to travel. from there you can counter roll backwards to put even more space inbetween the two. you can even roll forward after the initial block to force the hammer player to turn around, and that in turn takes time. what ever you do… do not dodge and don’t roll if you haven’t blocked. that’s the biggest mistake you can make.
if the hammer player is jumping in, it is no different. same story, same result.
but if you look at the serious holes in the hammer, it comes from being hit while using the hammer. with the hammer, you have no double jump, no air recover, air dodge… you get hit, you are a sitting duck… now here’s where it gets scary for the hammer user…
with a perfect block on the black hammer, you get a free throw (semi dependant on range and character size, but really consistant enough to try). you might even get more. i was able to perfect block, luigi up+b, and knocked the hammer out of him and used it on him as he was above me. but throw allows you to dictate soooo much.
try this out for yourself… stand with your back to the edge of a platform and have someone run at you with the hammer, and perfect block throw them back off the platform. they have no options to get back on. the least they can hope for is that the hammer timer runs out so they can recover.
yellow hammer has a faster attack rate, and most characters can still get throws, but tether throws are not free from what i’ve seen.
now, even without platform stages, you can still use the throw to get some really stupid combos that you aren’t usually able to get… no air dodge or tech roll recovery… they can only start swinging the hammer from thier natural recovery time, and depending on what thier percentage is, it could be a while.
feel free to mess with this yourself, as i could be wrong about a couple of things, or character matchups may make things more complicated, but it was fairly consistant with the 10 or so characters we used.
Fan spam defense
first off, let me say that big characters with the fan are automatically owned by many small characters with the fan. yes, free mid stage infinites, 999% unescapable, no effort whatsoever. fan doesn’t disappear after usage either.
but not all characters are perfect with the fan, and depending on the character you’re using you may be able to escape fan spam.
when being hit, you are airborne slightly, which is why you can’t block your way out of it. but being airborne, you can control yourself slightly to move yourself within the fan attacks, and even move the other player. by doing so you can even get some clean escapes. try to hold block as well while moving, as if they let up for a second or try to use a quick smash while you’re flailing wildly, you’ll block and recover fine.
the following was tested using t.link as the test subject vs characters a spamming the fan:
Mario - towards his upper back, then holding towards his back foot (difficult)
Donkey kong - Move towards his back; clean escape (easy)
Link - None found
Samus - Towards her back foot, clean escape (easy)
Kirby - None found for normal timing; for rapid spam hold up, may still get caught
Fox - Towards his back, clean escape (easy)
Pika - towards his back, clean (easy), straight up (medium)
Marth - Towards his back foot, clean escape (easy)
Mr G&W - Wiggle between his front and his back, escape toward his up back (intermediate/difficult)
and so on. if you can get out clean, your best bet is towards the back foot. if that doesn’t work, try up, and then try wiggling from front to back, or from high to low. if that doesn’t do anything for you by the time you reach 999% just hold block and hope they aren’t asshole enough to stall out the match.
but with that being said, there is still some ways to combat the fan even if you are stuck. with the minor air control you have, you are still able to control where the other person moves… and if they try to readjust, you have your window out.
your goal if possible should be to guide the other person towards the edge of the stage. if that happens, you will eventually find your way out… you’ll pop out the back side downwards slightly, and try your best to grab the edge, as them standing on it may be blocking you.
how you move the other person is as follows…
- Move to the side of which you want to push them (ie, if you want to push them left, travel to thier right side
- simply wait for them to move naturally with thier spam. holding straight down will also make them move slightly faster.
- once at the edge, you’ll eventually pop out, and can grab the ledge and hopefully get back on without getting re fanned.
granted, if you get caught, by the time you reach the edge, you may be at 100%+ if you’re lucky.