The Ken Thread - Ask Here - Discussion - Strats

ken

#61

I would really appreciate it if you went over the basics (ie. best normals to use, proper usage of super moves). Anything for the extreme noob. The info you have up right now is great man.


#62

Probably because you’re mentally getting ready to hit confirm. I might try that.

EDIT: sorry about the double post. Metric is “cl. strong x standing strong” supposed to be a link because I can’t get it to happen. This is in reference to the hit confirm list on the first page. I’m also having the same issue with the block string and the one following it. “cl.str x anything except fierce” wont do shit for me.


#63

Sure, I’ll try my best.


#64

Awesome.

By the way, last night I was playing my friend who is quite the button masher and I was using c.mk’s as a poke and he would get out of hit stun before I was out of recovery and would hit me with a c.hk. At first I thought it was total bullshit but some guy on GGPO said its totally legit and thast what happens when u dont combo off the c.mk or if you do it too deep. I’m sure all the SRK pro’s know that but man it was so frustrating for me.


#65

Well I guess I should have specified on how that works, if the close strong is blocked, it will push you back far enough to do st.strong… but if the close strong ISN’T blocked then it wont push you back, messing up the block string set up.

Oh, and I updated the thread on normal/basic usage.


#66

I understand what you’re saying. The “x” made me think cancel, so I was confused.

Thanks for updating the front page. That definitely gives me a better idea on how to approach Ken’s game play. As for the video, it “looked” high level but I’m still too noob to perceive whats really going on besides the baiting and rapid cr/st. movement.

EDIT: I’m going to be editing every damn post because I keep thinking all sorts of shit. How should I play long range? Bait with Hadouken’s?


#67

Some guy was using this on me on GGPO and it seemed effective. What is red parrying and why is it bad to use this string?


#68

A red parry is when you block at least the first hit in a hit string and then initiate a parry in the middle of the string. The timing is… difficult.

A little later in [media=youtube]yBOxDuWtWcY"[/media] (around 1:50 and onwards) can show you a bunch of red parry exhibition occurring, mostly with specials and supers, but red parries can be done on any string of attacks such as the one you quoted.

It’s bad to get into the habit of using that one because a good player might see it coming and red-parry the cr.jab and break your hit confirm, then probably punish you with their own super. You probably won’t see red parries occur online very often since the timing is rather difficult, but high level players in real life can pull off a number of red parries.

I’d just master using the double cr. short confirm and learn when you can use the triple cr. short if you really need that much time or want the extra guarantee.

ADD: Metric, about the back + mk hit confirm… Isn’t that on crouching opponents only?


#69

The thing I learned about red parries is that the timing isn’t as difficult as most people think. It’s just getting the stick to neutral before the next attacks hit frames activate that troubles most people. I got into the habit of tapping my blocks but that doesn’t work so well for target combos that have more than two hits in them like Yuns. I also have trouble doing this on american sticks. I think it’s because of how much harder you have to tug the stick. nohomo.


#70

Yeah, I can agree with that to some extent. I personally still have trouble on timing though, which is why I said it; I usually don’t have too many issues with stick movements.


#71

Great Moments in Ken History!!!

Me playing as Ken, playing against a Yang player on GGPO…

In the middle of landing SA3 near the end of a match, I think, “Hmmm, I wonder if it’ll work if I toss out another one right after?”. Yang starts his super immediately after mine finishes. I pop my second one. Ken wins.

Cool story, Bro!


#72

This is the worst story I ever heard. You need to find new competition…


#73

Haha. My opponent and I were both wow’d by it. It was just one of those moments where both people are thinking, “Is this real? Did the creators of the game really make this possible?” Crazy low start up frames make it happen.


#74

Dude, Yang’s SA3 is hella slow. You were actually surprised when this happened???


#75

Awesome thread, thanks Metric :slight_smile:

I’m a noob in fighting games, I’m trying to learn Ken. I can do strong, fierce, fireball xx super and short, short super consistently; now, I’ve learned standing far strong -> super and back forward -> super, and I’m trying to incorporate them in my gameplay.

But men, I find cr. strong -> super really difficult! People say that it is far more easier of other Ken hit confirms, and you have plenty of time to confirm, but I really find it very strict, not only to confirm but also to pull off. Standing strong, to me, give you much more time to confirm, and also you can press mp button and buffer the first qcf motion, then execute the second qcf motion and drum on all kicks at the end of the move. If you buffer the motion with cr. strong, it often will happen that a fireball comes out due to negative edge input, so you can’t buffer, and also the time cr. strong retraits seem much smaller than standing version…

But people says this is the easiest Ken confirm, so I’m definitely missing something, please help :slight_smile:

Another question on waking up opponents: Ken shoul’d be in great advantage when the opponent is on the floor, but I’m having troubles in dealing with people that stand up with high parry -> throw option select. Yes, I can simply do cr. short confirm into super, but shorts have few active frames so they are hard to do meaty, especially if your opponent mix quick standing with standard standing. So, I shoul’d simply thorw other low meaties, but the only low meaties KEn has other than short are low forward and low roundhouse, that carry big frame disadvantage if blocked. Also, if my opponent mix in random reversals, things simply get worse. I can also throw out moves a bit late, to avoid parry, and position myself out of throw range, for example I can throw shorts out of throw range, but often it happens that my opponent throws out a command grab.

What am I missing? What I’m doing wrong?


#76
  1. If you’re negative edging the cr. mp into a fireball when attempting to buffer the QCF motion, the answer is probably as simple as this: get your finger off of the button faster. A single QCF buffer should be extremely doable; I can buffer QCF x2 without negative edging a fireball. Next time you go practice, pay close attention to how long you actually have the button pressed down and when you depress it. You might be surprised how long your finger stays there. If this is the case, just remember that all you need to do is tap mp; you don’t need to make love to it.

  2. If you think far st. strong gives you more time, but aren’t sure, one of your first reactions should be to go look at the frame data. Especially since you just posted a link in the Frame Data thread.

Frames (Start up, hit, recovery, hit advantage)
Far st. strong: (6, 2, 10, +4)
cr. strong: (4, 3, 7, +4)

So you have a few more frames with far st. strong to buffer, confirm hit/block/whiff/parry, and link to super.

  1. There isn’t any one perfect answer to using Ken’s wakeup game. A good part of it is experience; learning how to use the mixups and mindgames over time. Keep trying different things, see what works, and more importantly you should try to understand why things do or don’t work. If a person is abusing parry/throw option select on wakeup, you’ve already listed some of your better answers. Just get used to thinking about the setup, trying to figure out what you actually CAN do, what your opponent is probably going to do, and choosing answers that close out their options better. Note that cr. short x2 can be done outside of the majority of characters’ throw ranges. In the case of shotos, just barely.

If you’re worried about command grabs, then you might be facing characters where you probably don’t wanna hang in their face all the time anyway (re: Hugo). So another choice against those characters, and really a choice against any character, is to back off. Play a more patient game if you must; Ken doesn’t HAVE to be in the opponent’s face the entire round to win. It just happens to be one of his stronger points. :slight_smile:

Similarly for random reversals, you can just block for a brief time as the opponent is getting up… but don’t fret too much if you occasionally get hit. Everyone gets hit by a random reversal from time to time.

Also, Ken’s cr. forward is -3 on block. If you don’t do it too often against certain characters, it is a perfectly okay choice. You can backdash out of throw range, wait, and use it. That option gives you time to block random reversals or confirm a hit off of a whiffed throw tech. Similarly, you can use far st. strong outside of throw range for a normal hit confirm.


#77

DesertWind: thank you. Wow, so it isn’t just me: cr. strong is three frames harder to link than standing. Anyways, I’ll try to follow your advice on tapping mp instead of keep it pressed.

It’s cool to see that a cr. strong has the same start up of a cr. jab; this is the reason why players dash in -> cr. strong so many times.

This is one good point. I often get pissed by people who say that I have to constantly attack with Ken. I don’t think Ken is an attack character, I think he is a footsies one. I don’t have to “attack”, I simply have to keep distances and find an opening to go in (to attack). I can’t mindlessly dash or jump in. I hate when I’m trying to play a basic footsie game and get critics because I don’t “attack”. How can I get in if I’m playing against an Alex that randomly throws Ex elbows, o a Ryu player who constantly throws low forwards and sweeps? Oh, I respect and love my mates, and love to play with them, but I can’t explain them this concept.

Or, if I’m wrong, please explain how I can attack without predictable dashes or jumpins. Paradoxally, I think Necro is far more offensive that Ken in Third Strike, even if he is low tier, but again it can be very matchup specific.

However, I don’t play against Hugo, I play constantly my mate that uses Alex :slight_smile: I think he is good, and I need to play with patience to give him some challenge. So, I’ll try to avoid meaties and try to play a “slower” wake up game, a sort on footsies on wakeup.

And please, comment and give any kind of advice you think coul’d be of help, it will be much appreciated.


#78

for the cr. strong to super, try doing the crouching strong with a db,d,df,f buffer instead of the regular down to forward.


#79

I’ll try. But what is the benefit of doing this?


#80

I’m not even sure but over the years I’ve noticed my hit confirms are a lot easier if I do the motion from down back as opposed to just from down. My guess is after some time we kinda get into this mode where you know exactly how much force you need apply for the proper fireball motion and it just kinda carries over thus giving you supers through " db,d,df,db,d,df instead of d,df,f,d,df,d." Kinda like a shortcut that leaves less room for error? If you push the button even a little later than your opponent you’re just going to block. That’s besides the point, though. I remember reading somewhere here that “it’s easier” to hit confirm from the db position. That’s just my gobbled idea as to why. Though it is likely wrong and there’s already a more articulate explanation for it.

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