I’m probably going to look you up on the chat for this, and I’ll try to get some recordings done myself, as this is pretty hard to understand.
So, if Saiki’s grab has 1 frame startup, and is able to punish a -1 move, how exactly does that work?
Once again the Kyo qcf+B on block example: Saiki reversals with grab super, Kyo jumps up instantly after qcf+B. Saiki reversals and Kyo still has 1 frame of recovery to go, the one invincible frame happens, Kyo recovers. The next frame superfreeze starts, and Kyo starts his first frame of his jump and is thus unthrowable. It should miss, but it doesn’t.
Doesn’t that mean that the grabcheck happens on the very first frame you input the move? Thus 0-frame startup?
Okay, I think I get it. So, 1st startup frame happens, but freeze happens before both players advance to the next frame, so Kyo can’t start his jump, since the hitcheck happens during freeze, he cannot jump out in time.
The way you have it in notation now as 1-1 is fine I guess, it’s both accurate and anyone can figure out that it functions as a 0-frame startup move.
Never seen it like that, but I agree it makes sense.
O, one more thing. I haven’t looked specifically at Saiki, but Kyo at least his st.CD actually does 23 frames of blockstun rather than 22.
This is because Kyo bestows 10 frames of hitstop on himself and 11 frames of hitstop, so the difference + 22 blockstun gives a total of 23 frames that the opponent cannot move.
I haven’t looked at other characters for this yet, is this a Kyo only thing then?
So… just noticed that all hop normals have different active frames than their jump normal counterparts. More work
Seems like the upper limit for active frames on hop normals is 8F. As King’s jump normals tend to have 10 or 11 active frames, they’re all reduced to 8. So far I’ve noticed that 9-10F AF jump normals lose 2 AF on hop. 11 AF normals lose 3 AF. 8 AF normals lose 1F, and potentially 6-7F AF normals lose 1 (haven’t come across these yet). 5 and lower AF normals don’t lose any.
Just tested this, and Kyo’s st.CD does 22F of blockstun (using traditional KoF counting, not mine), same as the others I’ve tested. There’s definitely no difference in hitstop - both are in it for a total of 12 (or 11 if you don’t count the hitting frame). Tested this on whiff too, and whether on whiff or block, it takes the same number of frames for Kyo to start a jump after doing CD, when subtracting 11F of extra hitstop.
On the hop active frames: I doubt you’ll be able to consistently define ‘rules’ for length of hop active frames in comparison to jump active frames, only tendencies. Have you tested differences in startup between hop and jump as well? In older KOF’s they could be different too, although not usually. But especially hop and jump CD sometimes had different startup values.
On Yuri’s page, under Tips and Tricks it says:* Due to input leniency, it is possible to input dp+C (DC) dp+D simply by pressing both buttons in sequence after performing the motion. You might find this easier than to input the DP motion twice in a row. *
If you do this her fireball special will come out instead of her demon flip. **
Benimaru is finally up. The guy has like a billion projectiles (that aren’t really projectiles) which take forever to test. I don’t know if anyone would ever care to know all of the exact hitstop/hitstun/blockstun of all of his lightning moves, but hey, it’s there anyway.