you both win the internet.
IT’S CRAB TIME BABEH.
yes, his f+air is retarded.
His d-air is really good, you can actually hit peoples shields and not get punished for it as it has no landing lag afterwards.
I think his d-air will be come his bread and butter in this game.
I stole this from DD’s thread on smashboards.
the damage multiplier works like this.
0% - x1.0
50% - ~x1.25(1.23)
100% - ~x1.50(1.53)
150% - ~x1.75 (1.84)
200% - x2.00
I brawl living to 200% isn’t very hard, not a walk in the park either.
First post has been updated a bit.
Useful information there too, Dima.
Anyway, Lucario is the fuckin’ truth. If he had a solid, go-to KO move he’d be broken :lol:
Here’s a few match videos of me against some friends. If anybody can give me any pointers(other than “don’t miss the edge when you u+B”, I’m working on that) you’re more than welcome. Also, I’m ready to use d+b ALOT LESS against people that aren’t Olimar because that shit is starting to piss me off.
EDIT: Sonichuman is uploading as I type this, so many of our matches aren’t available at the moment. He’s on the 19th(out of about 35 matches) one right now.
If I had to offer you advice (not that I’m the best Lucario player around, but yeah), I’d say you definitely need more offense. Far too often you’re standing still, waiting for them to attack. I watched maybe three or four of Sonic’s videos, and vs. both Sonic and Olimar there are points where you are content to sit back and wait a while before doing something. If you are sitting back, you need to be doing something. Try throwing out (or even spamming) more un-charged fireballs when you’re sitting back in defense mode. Unless you’re playing against a character than can spam fireballs back at you, they’ll probably be forced to jump over them towards you, or sit there and block the things. That’ll open up your air game, as you do have a lot of priority to get right in there and attack.
Basically, your Lucario isn’t pressing the issue enough. You can go toe-to-toe with pretty much everyone, and you shouldn’t be afraid to get in there and get hit. Lucario’s attacks chain so well, if you get into an in close situation where you’re trading blows, you have two fast moves in Dair and Nair that can more than likely bail you out. In fact, you should be just fine with getting hit (not that you should try to or anything), as it ultimately raises your KO power, and makes your fireballs that much better.
Don’t be afraid to chase! Often, you get a Fair sending them off the edge, and then you back off and wait for another option. You have to follow that up! Use your second jump, throw out a Fair/Nair/Dair, anything. If you do have a charged fireball, jump up and throw it at them. Oftentimes this can alter their recovery if there’s a big aura sphere in their path, helping you get more chasing opportunities. I did notice that when you were completely on the offensive, you had way more success than when you were sitting back waiting for their move.
Just put more offense out there, and you should be fine. I’d totally be willing to play you sometime, if you’d like. I need to improve my own Lucario as well…
EDIT: Just as a side note, it also does depend on who you’re playing against, as going all-out against some opponents that zone really well can get you killed fast (ie Lucas). In those situations, you have to really watch your spacing and take advantage of opportunities when you get them by connecting with combos.
Listen to Lifted or he’ll eat your babies…with Lucario.
Just from playing Lifted, I can see Lucario’s chasing potential. Even though he has that fireball, I don’t think Lucario is a very good defensive character. I think he does extremely well when he is on the move, pressuring the opponent.
What’s funny is that on SWF they have a completely different view of him. Most have basically labeled him as a defensive character, and that his “defensive playstyle attracts calmer players.” While I understand that being patient with Lucario can pay off, I’d rather get in there and press the issue. I guess that’s just the way I play though…
There are definitely times where you have to play some defense with Lucario, but I think he is much better at getting in there and getting damage. I need to work on some new offensive setups…
Thank you so much for those pointers. Looking back at those matches, it does look like I should go on the offensive more. I stop because I try to concentrate so I can actually react to Sonic’s BS, but it never works out. Is there a block string that can’t be shield grabbed? I did SH Fair~Fair, SH Fair~Fair against that Olimar player and he said he couldn’t shield grab it.
Sonichuman’s best friend’s little brother is over here now and we playing Brawl. I couldn’t do shit against his Link.
Can’t be shieldgrabbed…hmm. Your fastest option would be to land after doing a Nair. Fair -> Nair has very low lag, so if you’re getting shieldgrabbed by Sonic or something after two Fairs try switching it up to a Nair afterward.
Yea the smashboards tend to think lucario is calm and defensive minded. I find when I play D with Lucario I get creamed. Hence playing D you wouldn’t take as much dmg as you would on offense which can lead to an increase of dmg and your chances of a ko hit. IE It’s a double edged sword. I’m able to chain grab heavy chars like bowser or D3 with F+B quite easily and when myself and enemy are dodge back and forth together I use F+B and I get the grab. I wish his D+A would spike like Falco/Fox a little more. When snake used his Up+B to recover off the screen I D+A’d him and instead of being knocked off he just took the dmg =/ Other than that I enjoy playing lucario and puting disbelievers in their spot. >.> Ike fans at my local lan cafe tend to hate the few lucario players that are around. I plan on having some vids up soon. Just need to get that ethernet adapter from Gamestop so I can play online.
Anybody have any advice on beating Link with the old dog?
If they’re camping, zoning, it’s like facing TLink or Lucas, and it’s going to be tough. Watch your spacing carefully, stay out of range of his smashes as you approach, and then when you see an opening, hit him with the large hitbox of a Fair or Nair. You’re probably going to be approaching with Fairs. Link and TLink can be a little tougher to fireball spam back at, as they can block your fireballs if they just stand there. Basically, be patient, and punish his ass with a combo when you get the chance. Watch out more for the bombs than the boomerangs, and just get in when you can. Link is sort of heavy, so you can tag him with some nice combos.
If they’re an offensive Link that wants to get in your face :lol:, show him the power of aura and combo his ass to death. He can’t go toe to toe with you, but be wary of Dsmashes. Also, look out for Dairs if you’re chasing upwards.
A) How often should I use the Aura Sphere and how long to charge. The only time I’ve been using it is protecting edges for anyone landing to short/shallow.
B) How often should I be dashing? I love how far Lucario travels via dash or shield/into dash. He puts good amount of spacing between you and the opponent, making it nice to end up behind someone and start his Aura Combos.
Also is it worth it to shield/into dash when you are about to hit the ground? I find it sort of makes up for the fact Lucario is kind of floaty.
C) Does F + B Smash have a weird hit box?
I am a Smash n00b, so apologize ahead of time if these are dumb questions or they don’t make sense. I find that things go either way if I play defensive Lucario. I find that I can only roll things my way in a match (defensively) if I get my timing/hits down with D+A in the air.
This is the first Smash game I am really trying to learn and Lucario has become my main. I feel sort of weird playing as anyone but him in the roster of characters.
I usually do random aura spheres to keep the opponent busy, while theyre blocking/rolling you can advance and attack or whatever.
A) If you’re against a reflector-happy opponent, or a character with a reflector at all, use it sparingly, only when you’re not in danger of getting it thrown back in your face (i.e. edgeguard or chasing). Otherwise, use it as much as you want, charge it only until you need to launch it. All variations of the shot are pretty good, and they only get better the more damage you take.
B)Personally I approach from the air moreso than by dashing. His dash attack is okay, but his Fair, Nair and Dair are way better to use on approach. I’d only dash attack when you’re somewhat within striking distance. Otherwise try attacking from the air. I’m not quite sure what you mean by shield/dash upon landing…
C) F-B’s hitbox is basically wherever the aura is. Nothing more and nothing less. If you’re up close, it becomes a grab. It’s a pretty useful move, but don’t spam it as it does have somewhat of a lag on it.
Thanks for the tips! I tend to dash a lot. The habit has gotten so bad, I started to do it just before my landings now.
How often do you use D + B smash for counters with Lucario? Should it be used sparingly?
A) Aura Sphere should be your bread and butter. It keeps all your other moves from getting stale moves degradation if you pop those out there whenever you aren’t directly fighting. If your opponent is adept at avoiding them but refuses to approach, feel free to charge it up and then go on the offensive yourself. You should also be charging aura sphere anytime you are recovering back towards the stage in the air and are above the plane of the main platform. This essentially forces your opponent to shield or run away from the ledge, giving you a free pass to grab the ledge and get back into the fighting.
B)Dashes should get mixed into a healthy range of approach tactics. Dash attack, dash grab or jump into aerials. Make sure to either pop off of a few balls of aura sphere or charge one up before you dash on the ground though, because you want your opponent on the defensive. Just dashing at someone and letting them shield your attack is going to get you shield-grabbed all day.
C) the Over+B (force palm) attack does have some weird characteristics. Up close there is a grabbing hitbox and then a kind of bloated triangular hitbox that does damage and knockback. Some opponents can be pseudo-chain-grabbed with it at low percentages. You forward smash is a better striking move with comparable range, so use that more often, but force palm has a shorter start-up so its better to use if you have to execute something quickly on the ground. However, your tilts and aerials are much better for dealing with pressure from opponents so choose your attacks wisely.
Well that was very strange. The main poster said absolutely everything I could’ve ever said about Lucario. The only things I view differently from him are the counter, Lucario’s F-smash, and his D-smash.
The counter: I think that it’s EXCELLENT when you use it on certain attacks vs high % people, and people do tend to throw out attacks that are very obvious.
D-smash: Although this is good for getting people off your balls, that short range hurts more than you’d think. Seriously, don’t use this unless you feel really threatened. Not saying it’s bad, just saying it’s not an offense.
F-smash: even if you miss, if you use this move at its absolute range you should be fine unless they jump or use a counter move. You should use this on edges rather than in the middle of a stage… you gotta play Lucario like he’s a sumo wrestler.
That said, is it just me or is Lucario very light or something? As soon as I get 100%, I seem to die out pretty quickly. I never get to use the full effect of the high damage power thing, which is pretty sad because it’s pretty powerful. Aura Sphere, whether it’s choice fully charged fireballs or the tinier spammable version of the move, is pretty damn strong. His throw also becomes insanely powerful. I just skimmed through the thread real fast and I don’t know if anyone has said it yet, but his throw is highly mashable. All of this combined makes a hurt Lucario very dangerous. If there’s an effecient strategy for keeping him alive, Lucario will easily be top tier.
A Little Bit of This, A Little Bit of That…
Lucario is great in both FFA and 1v1. All of the above info is great, but I wanted to just generally toss in my 2 cents…
The counter is GREAT, but only on the ground. Don’t use it frequently as your opponent can change into a juke/throw style to get around you, but it can get you kills just on its own. With the knockback the counter has, you can jump into the air and follow up with his sphere or setup other tricks.
But, this move seems to always suck in the air. It’s not that hard to activate it, but you almost always miss. “Missing” leaves you very vulnerable and gets you killed pretty quickly (as I have seen many times from my own experience just trying it out).
The Side+B seems to be best only as a “special grab”. If you aren’t grabbing them, the lag seems slow enough that people can react easily to the move. Furthermore, the little damage they get for being hit by the ranged version seems paltry compared to the power it has as a grab. I actually like this more than his regular grabs in many instances. If I ever need ‘range’, I’ve always got his F-Smash. Speaking of which…
Is the F-Smash not frickin’ amazing? I don’t know about you guys, but it feels like it’s got the range, if not a little longer, than Marth in Melee (who I used religiously). You can EASILY out range your opponent in many matches, and that’s even how I beat Link - I zone him.
In fact, I don’t have too much of a hard time with Link, and the matchup gets easier the better I learn his counters. You can handle his range game, you are better than him in the air, you can easily see and counter his D-Air (especially Toon Link… shuts him down completely once this move is taken out of T. Links arsenal), and you zone him on the ground with Sphere and F-Smash. He doesn’t have a whole lot to do about you in the air except his U-Tilt and U-Smash, which you can work your way around. I dunno, maybe I just haven’t played a good Link yet, but I think this matchup is in YOUR favor, not the other way around.
For those needing to “extend life”: Lucario is a great aggressor, no doubt, but he feels weakest at about 90-100%-ish. Around this point, I think its actually BETTER to play defensive than aggressive. Lucario’s style can easily switch from either at any time, but you want to STAY ALIVE at 100% and rack up more damage. Once you hit 130-140+, his aura seems powered up enough to overcome his fragility with enough force to viably rush again. And once you reach this threshold, Lucario is a frickin’ monster.
For online anon playing - This guy seems to ALWAYS WIN sudden death. Maybe it’s because you start at 300%, I dunno… Having “smash attacks” for your entire aura’d arsenal just seems unbalanced in your favor.