The mashing metagame


#1

From what I’ve gathered from playing this game at a high level, the mash yomi layers are going to continue to be a huge part in the strategy. Ex: am I going to mash through his resets/links, does he know I’m mashing and is going to drop the combo on purpose to bait, is he scared I’m going to bait him so il throw…etc. with pretty safe dhcs, 'safe’dps (para with a meter, fortune…) and such…I’d like to hear yall opinions on this


#2

Absolutely ridiculous.


#3

Absolutely not
You should be thinking about this every time you’re touching someone with anything. Are they dping, will they mash a normal, will they mash tech (you don’t have to time throw techs in skullgirls at all.) Do they have two meters to mash invincible super into safe dhc, if i try to bait them will they be doing an invincible move that might beat yours out such as rolling star or h hornet… the list goes on


#4

In the current state of the game this is entirely true. As a Filia player, any characters with a downward angle on their j.LP can generally mash it to avoid mixups.

Hell, ataconazi won the Skullgirls XBL tournament using this strategy (I presume), and got flamed by Chibi but got second place at Next Level.


#5

yes

this is a fighting game

this is how fighting games work

edit: to elaborate, there are things called counterhit setups - which is where you bait the mashing and make them pay. getting out of mixups usually requires meter, so if you’re willing to spend it then… there you go, you’re out. skullgirls is also similar to anime fighting games, where doing unsafe shit and bold canceling is a big factor, so… yeah. again, this is a fighting game. you make your opponent do stuff and then punish him for it.

if there are safe DPs tho (i dont actually know), they should probably be nerfed because that’s pretty OP lol.


#6

thats not a metagame, it’s just “the game”


#7

Lolololollol o rly? It just seems a lit more prominent in this game than normal due to a wide variety of factors.

And ftr I got 3rd at that tourney, but I played Shitty at the end on stream. I plan on making top 8 at ect.


#8

??? Go look up what metagame means using Google and get back to me haha


#9

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.”

anything that happens inside the game is not the metagame. an example of the metagame would be e.g. which character choices are popular in a given community and learning certain characters to counter those characters.

we can blame the smash community for this gross misunderstanding of what “metagame” means. smash players are retards, universally.


#10

Yeah, it’s not the *metagame *(which is a term I can only apply to MvC2 and 3S without feeling like an idiot), but right now it’s a fairly dominant strategy.

Edit note: I hate the misuse of the term metagame. A metagame is when the game is done evolving. Skullgirls metagame won’t be revealed in month 2; heck, it may not ever be revealed. Plenty of games have come and gone without hitting the point of even having a metagame because they weren’t explored thoroughly enough.


#11

Ehh I’m going to continue considering any strategic catagory as its own metagame because I like it and it makes sense


#12

metagame isn’t defined and is ever changing even if a game isn’t explored it still has a metagame based on those few players that do play it. And metagame isn’t just one thing that is global it changes also throughout regions.


#13

Why are you guys nitpicking the word usage? Atadude wants to discuss how important mashing and counter mashing and counter-counter mashing is.

I feel that mashing (the way you are talking about, not randomly smashing buttons) is kinda like a reverse reset. Works the same way as a reset, but as the defender. And just like a reset, if you misread the situation or flat out fail to properly set it up, it can be dangerous to yourself as well, a double-edged sword. So, since this game is reset heavy, that also means it has the potential to be reverse reset heavy. And… well, Ataguy already said it. It’s important in this game more so than others (at least the ones I’m familiar with).


#14

I fail to see how this is bad.

It’s the reason Parasoul/Double/Fortune can’t just be throw reset on the ground.

So, do you block expecting the DP? Do you block high expecting to tech a throw? Do you block low expecting a low attack? Do you block at all?

YEP, that sounds about right.

(Although you’re confusing mashing with actually doing the moves when you expect a reset. Which is sort of not really mashing, although it certainly looks that way.)


#15

Pretty much every game has something like this, I mean if you see the reset coming I don’t see why you aren’t allowed to punish the person if you can read it. So it seems justified. If the opponent just ends up mashing stand jab you can definitely bait the fool.

But yeah overall its not all that bad, it happened in 3s a lot too. If someone knocks you down and you tech roll it and you know they are going to press a button, or Makoto is dashing in on you, etc. Then you should be pressing a low short to stop it. Same thing applies in Skullgirls but just different situations.


#16

Leave smaller gaps, block and punish or bait it.

This isn’t new to Skullgirls.

Pretty sure using jab/short defensively or to interrupt like that is a technique players learn for many fighters (2P in VF comes to mind)


#17

I’m still surprised that purposefully dropping combos is being recommended to punish mashing. Also, I thought mashing was only limited to insulting grapplers who punish dropped combos with 360 throws.

Regardless, I find it interesting that mashing is being considered so dangerous for this game. I never was a fan of extended combos, always favored the mix-up more. But purposely dropping a combo to bait something that might not even happen is kinda foolish. The safe bet would be to ride out the combo in hopes of an IPS activation, or if a drop does happen, block the next move and punish with a Blockbuster.


#18

Just trust that I know what I’m doing when I decide to not go for jab link in one of the loops and napalm pillar into egrets instead. And I never said it was bad in any way, I actually find it hilarious and interesting. There are just so many yomi layers its mind boggling


#19

you like being wrong and silly.


#20

Lol. It can be used to describe the overarching strategies that encompass a game, or individual strategies that come about due to factors unrelated to the game engine itself. Either way why does it matter if you understand what im saying…