The more I play the more I hate this game


#1

As I’ve been getting better and better at SF4AE i start realizing how much I don’t like certain aspects. When fighting characters like El Fuerte, Cviper, or Akuma the game boils down to a rapid series of 50/50 guessing games (sometimes 30/70 in THEIR favor depending on your character). Are all fighting games like this? I really hate when I am clearly playing better than the other guy, making good reads and shit then he gets a knock down and beats me cause I can’t guess what side the coin is gonna land on.


#2

The short answer is no.


#3

Am I being bad or am I correct in this assessment?


#4

Well a lot of the older fighting games especially can have really nasty 50/50 left right or high low mix ups. Which is why I like Marvel so much because it’s basically just a big 3 on 3 version of all the old cheap shit. Tokido was known for the dirty “Hyoubal” Claw tactics in Super Turbo where basically Claw knocks you down once and then goes for a series of constant left rights and grabs with the flying barcelona until you eventually die. He can time these so you have to guess whether he’s going to land late enough so he can grab you from the air or if he’s going to time it so that an attack hits on the left or right of you. If any one of these hit you take solid damage and are forced to deal with the mix up game. Similar to the El Fuerte stuff except it kills you much faster and you have to have some kind of a reversal or there’s basically nothing you can do but guess right or die.** That’s also why Tokido likes Marvel a lot because it’s basically just a game of pissing people off once you force them to lose their spacing. A lot of the characters are like Viper/Akuma/Fuerte rolled into one character when it comes to offense especially when you add in assists. The characters play differently spacing wise but once you get in it’s basically open season for tricks that you can literally make up.
**

Most of the mix ups from characters like El Fuerte if he knocks you down can be avoided by focus forward/back dashing, jumping or simply backdashing in general at the right point. Normally you’ll want to just sit and see if you can block or jump out of the first mix up before you go for the backdashing and stuff since El Fuerte isn’t going to do a ton of damage to you on one mix up unless he gets a perfect set up for something like a j.HP into RSF (which is not something the average joe el fuerte is gonna do online any way).

Any of C.Viper’s wake up mix ups that don’t involve a j.HK can usually be beaten by the same stuff. Focus dash to absorb the burn kick, if she does it too high you can just charge focus on wake up and hit her, if you have a crouch normal that can go under the burn kick and hit her you can do that also. The only thing you really have to worry about that’s going to kill you is her j.HK and only like top Vipers set that up really good since the range on that normal isn’t that big any way. The best thing to do against C.Viper is basically just try to block the right way if she’s going for a safe meaty j.HK and if she’s doing any burn kick shenanigans then use focus or low profile crouch normals to get out of there.

Akuma has the hardest vortex to deal with since pretty much all of his stuff and not just one move is really tight and can set up hard to get out of situations. If Akuma knocks you down he has really strong option selects for your escapes also so it’s one of those things where you wanna just stay on your feet if you can. If you do get knocked down your best bet is just to block until you block the right way. If he starts going for the tatsu cross stuff you can try to focus dash out of that but if he does it real meaty he can tend to catch you off that too. The best advice is just to stay patient and once in a while try to jump out if he goes for flip grab or focus dash out of tatsu.


#5

However, if you noticed, all the characters you mentioned (Viper, Akuma, Fuerte) have particularly low health. That’s intentional.
The characters who are blessed with safe, potent mix-ups, are usually the same ones blessed with low stamina (while characters with unsafe mix-ups like Gief and Hawk, have lots of health).

So, it’s often a matter of simply not getting flustered when these characters start landing mix-ups on you, getting out of the mix-up via the methods DevilJin mentioned (FA backdash on wakeup is so underutilized), regaining your composure, trying not to get in that situation again, and then wearing down their low life.

So what if Fuerte hits you 2, 3, 4 times in a row? Sooner or later you’ll get out of the mix-up. Now, get back to work.

And, yeah, SF4 didn’t invent mix-ups. Plenty of other games out there have even more deadly mix-ups that can cost you way more life than they do in this game.


#6

I played a ton of fighting games (Fighters Megamix, Fighting Vipers, lol) back in the day. Street Fighter is the only one like this. Not even Guilty Gear (at least up to Guilty Gear X, which was the last one I played) was like this. Thinking back, I think they stole the scaled combo damage from Guilty Gear X…

I don’t play those “x vs y” games, so it might be the norm for them. But as far as Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, King of Fighters, and the like go, no, this is not the norm.


#7

People are not coins. It may seem arbitrary but I can often feel what the opponent is going to go for, seeing it in my mind a few seconds before it happens. It requires having fought with them a bit first, though. Hopefully you don’t let the Fuerte’s knock you down right away.

As to whether the game is like that, you’ve answered in only mentioning a handful of characters. On the other end of the spectrum are characters like Balrog who are more ‘honest’ in their fighting style, if you want to use that term.


#8

This is what that mixup characters fight for the whole damn match with their shitty stamina and sometimes lack of tools to deal with the simplest stuff. This is what they are, their real game is working towards towards that knockdown not the (favorable for them) mixups that follow. Can you appreciate it from the other perspective?

I’m not speaking in terms of SF4 or any character in particular btw. As to your question, yes lots of fighting games have characters like that. Personally, I don’t like playing them but hey, it adds good variety.

Now if you have characters that have crazy mixups in addition to a comprehensive set of tools then that’s retarded.


#9

If I wasn’t having any fun, then I probably wouldn’t play.

Nobody likes a hater and if you are losing then you are not playing better than the person you lost to. Maybe try a new character.


#10

BINGO!