The most "honest" fighting games you know!


#1

So after finding out about “scrubquotes” and watching the epic “listening to true fighting game players” vid for the first time lol I thought it might be a good idea for people to drop some footage of fighting games you think could be described as the most "honest and why as well as jotting down the 100% good points and bad points about the game. This will probably be quite and I will be interested to see what people bring to the table I have a couple in mind myself lol I will kick it off with one obviously comment on what you think about them as well but defo post up if you have a game in mind. Be as detailed about the game as possible.


#2

Divekick. Everyone does the same damage. There is no blocking. There are no throws. There are no fireballs. There are no combos. Only dives and kicks. And specials. And Kick Factor.

Okay, so Divekick is some bullshit, but it’s fun bullshit.


#3

So for the first one I am guna drop Mighty Morphin Power Rangers for the Sega megadrive/genesis. This game is really simple for the majority but dig a little deeper and you find some interesting cool stuff and tech in the game. First off things that make it seem “honest” there are not any real unblockable moves in this game except from generic jump crossover, side switch dash (to be fair though it is pretty hard you basically have to run at the right time as the opponent is getting up to end up on the other side of them) and there are no overheads besides obviously jump attack and yellow rangers special moves (she has a dive attack she does in the air and she can also perform a psycho crusher type move which she is able to do on the ground or in the air. If you learn how to do it you can get a low air version of it to hit as an overhead). Besides that there are a few things like minotaurs flame pillar can hit from the back if close enough generally on wake up but there are no throws in the game what so ever(I would not mind some throws though but it is one less unhonest thing to complain about right :D). There are no corners all the maps are infinite so there is no corner to be able to trap someone in. There are alot of projectiles in this game however there is a mechanic and one of my favs that allows me to enjoy this game alot more then most iterations of SF2 is the projectiles reflect mechanic. All projectiles are reflectable and you can not use another projectile while yours is being reflected, you can however have a projectile from you and your opponent ping ponging back and forth which is always quite fun lol. There are barely any cases where you can “spam” light attacks/jab into combos the only 2 that come to mind are Goldar crouching light and minotaurs crouching light. In order to combo you generally have to either do what can only be described as a well timed or just frame link alternatively doing run cancel into another attack which then you can follow up with a special attack if its fast enough. Combos are not easy to pull off in this game there is definitely no way you can complain about it. With the run cancel there is alot of pressure you can do but there are no true blockstrings so it is all technically escapable or counterable. As far as normals go there is pretty much nothing to complain about especially considering there are no overhead moves.

So now onto the good points of the game:
There can definitely be little to no complaints about the game balance wise
The stage design is nice
Nice Arcade/story mode quite faithful to the program besides the odd hiccup if you are anal about that kind of thing
The special moves are very well thought out with alot going on things you are only starting to see now or saw later on such as projectile breaking moves and air to ground curve moves like FANG poison balls
The normals on the zords and monsters are all pretty well done
All the movement is fantastic has back dash with invun frames, runs, walks and different jumps between characters
Projectile reflect mechanic actually makes matches quite interesting and in general is a cool mechanic each persons reflect is different as well some last longer then other etc
Absolutely lots of cool tech you can do in the game here is some example;
Directional charge moves only need 1 second charge and you may actually run with the charge on then release the special later imagine being able to move as E honda after charging then doing the headbutt later lol
Double attack button charge moves last 2 seconds and are generally big projectiles for huge damage. What you can do though is tap the attack button and just hold the strong attack and release the light attack button allowing you to fight and maybe even combo lights attacks into your charge attack.
Run cancel combos and block string pressure
Some invun frame moves to get past attacks to punish
Obscure cross up techs such as black rangers spinning axe pushing back facing targets into your move and dash in on knockdown cross ups

Bad Points:
There are only 6 stages and of them only one stage that you can fight with the rangers on
The rangers have universal normals with maybe the most meager of difference if any at all
With the exception of the pink ranger all the rangers are based off the red ranger sprite just different colours
Only 2 attack button made for a console pad that has 3 buttons(I imagine this was simply due to running out of time to drop the game as this game is clearly unfinished there is alot of stuff they did not get to implement like the secret moves that were clearly meant to be super attacks for the rage bar in the game etc. This also applies to the universal ranger normals & even stage selection)
A lack of options to open up your opponent(with no throws and pretty much no overheads or any other form of unblockable you are pretty much left to chip the opponent and force them to make a move so you can attack and deal damage)
Clearly an unfinished game as mentioned above

So to summerize this is clearly an unfinished project but it has the bare bones blue print to be a really good game and there is pretty much no way especially in its current state that you could not call it “honest” or could you?? lol What do you think? Let me know

Blue ranger run showing some invun frame stuff and the run cancel charge move mechanic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Ce3INtrDE

Green ranger run showing off my charge tech from the run cancel as well as the 2 attack button charge stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boYszBuUrEw

Yellow ranger run showing the only character with any real overheads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdjar72yII0

Pink and Black ranger run showing some of the weird cross up stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM--PIyTh5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5INnnhwvic

There is also a red ranger run but it aint showing anything special so bun it. I will be doing one of the monsters as well so might but I think everything interesting you really need to see is already covered in these vids anyway. So whats the word? “honest” or “Cheap” “Good” or “Bad” you decide


#4

Although I am sure the vast majority of people know about Dive Kick add some footage mate so people can check it out especially the important stuff. Say a little more about the various moves and ideas they have used to place the fact there is pretty much no other attack functions except their divekicks


#5
  1. Virtua Fighter 4 (version C) is the best, nothing else even comes close. Defensive and offensive options are both extremely viable and no single character has an advantage over another despite having almost completely different play styles.
    https://youtu.be/BE8c95URmEU

  2. Virtua Fighter 5 (version C) is a close second. Offensive options are much stronger in this installment, but all characters are on even ground with respect to maximum damage output.
    https://youtu.be/Jbdku-Ef4VQ

  3. Kengo II has gameplay balance equal to Virtua Fighter 5 (version C), but the emphasis is more on defense and differences in the cast keep it from achieving that height. Outside of the create-a-samurai the proper use of movement, ko, tai, and ken in multiple stances can ensure that even Musashi can be beat with the lowliest samurai.
    https://youtu.be/UbuIUfr4gVk

  4. Real Bout Fatal Fury Special is the best balanced of SNK’s offerings in terms of defensive and offensive options along with character balance. Only flaw in this gem is that Tung Fu Rue has a hard time against Billy and Sokaku and Cheng is in the game (garbage tier). Geese is rightfully a secret boss and a true nightmare (god tier).
    https://youtu.be/iFz_gfVjjpY

  5. Soul Calibur 3: Arcade Edition is largely pressure focused, but amazing in terms of balance (only Rock cannot stand with the best, but is arguably better than Yunsung in II). Guard Impact is weaker in this installment and acts more as a quick reset than a parry and stun extends most combos creating a larger gap between different levels of players. Movement is standardized and quick poke heavy characters don’t have a ridiculous advantage over slower characters in this installment.
    https://youtu.be/xu8RZKPgEDU

Honorable Mention: Tekken 6 on PSP with no bound cheat for both players. Setting up two players is a bitch with ad-hoc or 2xPPSSPP local server bypass, but it is arguably the most balanced Tekken game ever and juggles play the least prominent role in the series with movement, pokes and oki being even more important than usual.


#6

Ultimate marvel vs capcom 3.


#7

I defo agree with what you said balance wise for VF I used to love that game myself I would say I prefer 5 over the others as the play is alot smoother. That being said with Kengo being the exception are these games really that “honest”. Alot of unblockables among them, mixups especially in Real Bout considering its a 2D fighter has more then usual. The balance for the last two is decent not sure I would say top 5 though. That being said you could be more specific with some of the mechanics in some of these games there is actually alot you could say promote honest gameplay. Nice list tho man I reckon of them all Kengo is a good one to talk throughly about and games like it such as Bushido Blade another game I was really into at one point.


#8

What unblockables? Throws or reversals? Almost everything is interruptible or blockable in Real Bout unless you whiff or get caught in a string… The game has several lines of movement and attacks that hit across lines, but those are easily blockable and punishable if timed right. Strings can chain into supers and specials.

Kengo has full 3D movement with axis lock-on. The L1 button turns movement into a dash or run depending on distance. Each character can have upto 3 stances out of 9. The R1 button sheaths the sword and is a shared stance among characters. The Ko techniques mapped to 0 are predefined attack strings that can strike from 9 different directions. Everyone has a while running Ko (can vary), back jump Ko, and a while opponent is downed Ko. Unsheathing with R2->0 is also a Ko technique (can vary). Counterhits and closeness to opponent define damage output and attack stun. There is no homing, but attacks can be full circular or half circular or be long range and linear. All Ko techniques can be canceled with X. Holding X acts as block while tapping it after opponent starts the attack acts as a parry or Tai technique and can whiff. The Tai techniques are predefined and set to turn a specific directional attack parry into a reversal that requires 0 to complete. The Ken techniques mapped to [] are predefined throws or stun strikes or delayed attacks that strike a specific stance (including block, excluding sheathed) that sometimes require 0 to complete. The Tai and Ken techniques that need 0 to complete usually allow the opponent movement back, forward, left and right which requires one to follow or risk whiffing. The ones that allow no movement do little to no damage (throws). Waking up is possible in four directions and forward wakeup can stun if opponent is close enough and in front.


#9

I always found the concept of an “honest” fg to be stupid tbh. It is completely dumb, no fg is honest


#10

Clearly its beyond that no game fighter or not is honest that is the whole joke. That being said it is interesting to see who can pull out what that could be somewhat defined as “honest” as possible lol and if there is actually anything to those games at all whether they are good or not etc


#11

What’s a “honest” fighting game? To me sounds like a boring game.

By the way RBS is pretty far from being SNK’s most balanced; it’s not even the most balanced Fatal Fury. It also has a pretty terrible lineshift system. FFS, RB2 and to a lesser extent RB1 still get competition but I don’t see much for RBS.


#12

is this basically the same question as “what is the most balanced fg?”


#13

I guess abuses that are complained about and what games have maybe done to get around them or just ouright lack. This is just for jokes not really to be taken seriously its more a piss take look over and at the video of my original post and view over the example game I put down.


#14

Na I imagine balance is simply a neccessary factor if it was just that then it would be alot easier to answer. I have one other game not mentioned yet floating around in my head but I will wait a bit to drop it plus I need to think through if it really is


#15

I think honest implies that the system has a simple to follow set of decisions to make in any situation that do not make one immediately vulnerable to a checkmate and most good decisions are almost equally as rewarding.

I would love to hear what is the best balanced SNK game in your minds. Fatal Fury Special is not a contender due to the unevenness of its match-ups. Real Bout 2’s Rick Strowd can eliminate every set of potential strategies against him without any effort and it has an equally bad Tung Fu Rue and Cheng and a similarly overpowered Kim. Real Bout 1’s Bob Wilson is too terrible against most characters for me to consider it well balanced. The line system is far better than KoF’s dodge/roll mechanic in my opinion because it allows more conscious control.

Once I considered King of Fighters '98: Final Edition the best balanced SNK game, but the selectable modes are not equal and not even considering the boss characters (which are game breaking) leaves Orochi Shermie and a few others up shit creek without a paddle while the roost is ruled by the old top tiers. I personally think King of Fighters 96 is more balanced even if Yagami team is considered (with Iori being too strong and Vice being too weak). However, compared to Real Bout they feel a bit stiff and limited in comparison and nothing else produced by SNK has as much balance.


#16

“I think honest implies that the system has a simple to follow set of decisions to make in any situation that do not make one immediately vulnerable to a checkmate and most good decisions are almost equally as rewarding.”

so basically everything has an answer, and no single answer negates other answers?

if im following correctly, i might throw waku waku 7 into the mix (with auto charge meter.) It seems in this game every single decision has a counter for every character. like there are no strategies that cant be directly countered. Not that I think waku waku 7 is super great, but it is one of the only fighting games i can think of that seems to be almost entirely about the right reads. how the game is designed is that every mechanic and every attack seems to be built into a rock/paper/scissors format, similar to the fire/water/grass trinity with pokemon- throws beat super charges, super charges beat normals, normals beat throws. for wakeup, command grabs beat rollout attempts, roll outs stop oki, oki can stop wake up attacks, wake up attacks can stop command grabs. How the characters intersect also seem to do the exact same thing, but on a more complex and hard to explain, yet simple to see style. for instance, they programmed certain projectiles to be directly negated by certain and specific normals, those specific normals might lose to pokes, pokes might lose to different version of projectiles, supers might beat pokes, autocharge will beat supers and so on. the character specific matchups and specials do the exact same thing. everything has an answer and counter. at least that is what it seems to be the case. (no one really knows much about the game.)


#17

There is a small building group dedicated to this game. Interesting choice nice explaination


#18

I have only ever wasted a single quarter on it, but according to this document there are non-universal checkmate options for certain characters.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/arcade/562628-waku-waku-7/faqs/33040


#19

Urban Champion


#20

ill look into some of this, but i dont trust any of it, because i see immediate issues with it after reading for 20 seconds. For instance, Rai’s harahara is listed as tough to avoid, but it is as easy as standing still, taking a long sip of tea, then pressing all 4 face buttons when he gets close to you (super charge move). Dandy J’s harahara move is also pretty worthless from what i know so far, in that there’s never a reason to get hit by it. you can escape it in any scenario pretty effortlessly.

this guide seems to imply that harahara moves are a kind of checkmate option, but they arent even that valuable in the metagame, because they either can be avoided entirely, or the damage mostly negated, and this can be done really easily. even mauru’s harahara, which is the hardest to avoid, can be avoided by all characters, and with proper play. for instance, when mauru throws you, you should be doing the instant wake up mechanic so that you can recover and get out of the way of it easily and cleanly. and literally every character has a way out of the beam when coming towards you.