The New Elena Thread

elena

#1

EDIT 2/20/06: Added a miscellaneous section.
EDIT 2/28/06: Updated the ‘normals’ section, and something about Scratch Wheel in the Special Moves section.
EDIT: 3/25/06: Added a few combos reccomended to me in the thread, plus the J. Mp -> J. Hp option I noticed from watching Combofiend. Seems so OBVIOUS, now…Why didn’t I ever think of that? Such a nice combo, too…
EDIT: 6/13/06: Added the ‘Turtling Game’ part of the strategy section.

I decided to make an Elena thread, similar to the Sean thread I made…mostly cos I figured if I made a Sean thread and I don’t even play Sean, I should probably try making one for the character I use primarily. I know there’s some good Elena players around here, so feel free to throw ideas my way, or correct me if you think I’m wrong. Anywho, here we goooo…

A. Normals I like to use

I think Elena has a lot of really useless normals. That seems to be more common in this game than in other games; I’m not really sure why. But, in any case, here are the normals I use…some, more often than others:

  1. S.Lk - Cos sometimes, it’s just nice to have a standing normal that cancels into stuff. In any case, I don’t use this very much.

  2. C. Lk - This move is kinda funny. It can go under fireballs at point blank (not all that useful), and it can combo into EX Spin Scythe or SA2. In fact, it’s her only low cancelable normal. It’s really a shame that this one is really hard to hit confirm, but in any case, it’s probably good to know about it.

  3. S. Mp - One of my other less-frequently-used normals, this one is nice when your opponent jumps in from too close to use Back Roundhouse effectively, and I don’t have enough time to dash under my opponent.

  4. C.Mp - This one is nice. It’s got almost as long of range as C. Mk (on characters with straighter stances, there really is no difference, and on characters with less-straighter stances like Chun-Li, the difference is negligable), it’s actually pretty nice anti-air, and it’s her only hit-confirmable move. This one’s very important.

  5. F+Mp Overhead - It’s an overhead. It’s a little slower, or maybe as fast as her UOH, but the range on it is quite long, and it doesn’t move her forward at all. I use this one less than her F+Mk Overhead, but this one has its uses, mainly in countering slow crouching attacks.

  6. S. Mk - This isn’t half bad for stopping special moves that move your opponents forward (Hurricane Kicks). Other than that, I don’t use it.

  7. F+Mk Overhead - Oh man…I love this move. It’s got about the same range as the F+Mp Overhead (surprisingly; I thought this move had much better range), and it comes out waaay faster. The only trouble with this move is that it recovers a bit slower, and it moves Elena forward, which can put her in trouble sometimes…If this move gets parried, you’re in a lot of trouble. Just learn when it’s safe to follow up and when it isn’t, and you’ll be fine.

  8. S.Hk - One of Elena’s important normals for her defense. This one send Elena forward, and can go over some low attacks. This beats quite a lot of stuff on ground AND air, but is VERY slow to recover, and the range isn’t quite as long as it looks. Use this if you’re sure your opponent is gonna attack, so you can counter it. Otherwise, use it in close proximity. If you whiff this, it’s GONNA hurt. Another thing…While this can be used as anti-air, you don’t wanna use it as anti-air on closer jump-ins. Stick to S. Mp for that kinda stuff!

  9. B+Hk - The other important defense normal. B. Hk moves Elena slightly backwards, giving her throw invulnerability. Is also goes over a lot of low attacks. As if that wasn’t enough, it has crazy priority (better than normal S. Hk!), and does crazy large amounts of stun. Just like S. Hk, you don’t wanna use this on close jump-ins, so watch out. Be sure to use her Hks along with S. Mp and C. Mp for a surprisingly solid defensive game.

  10. C. Hk - A quick sweep that’s pretty effective at far ranges, and even goes under fireballs on occassion. Going under fireballs isn’t very practical, but it can be useful to remember. This move comes out pretty fast, and is surpsingly safe on block, considering you didn’t do it too close to the opponent.

  11. OC.Hk - A sliding kick that knocks down and has decent range. While the range is better than her C. Hk sweep, it’s not really a lot safer, and you can’t abuse it quite as much as some people’s slide kicks (Dhalsim or Guy, anyone?). The range isn’t quite as long as it looks (her foot doesn’t actually hit the opponent), and it can whiff pretty easily. If it does whiff, btw, you’re screwed - this move has horrible recovery time. Be sure to use this only when you’ve got a clear shot.

  12. J.Mp - I use this when I’m going to jump up and immediately try and hit someone out of the air, especially because you can link it into J.Hp. This can also be useful when someone tries to parry the attack, but don’t rely on that to help you very much, because once someone learns that trick, it’s not very dangerous anymore. Just remind your opponent every once in a while. Overall, I stick to using it as a surprise manuver.

  13. J.Hk - This is a nice, nice move. It’s good anti-air, it’s a good jump-in, it can be easily followed up with a combo, and it can hit either once or twice. It’s good to try and learn how you can control that (because you can to an extent) to try and fool people that whore parries all day. This is a nice way to screw up their rhythm, and I prefer it move than J.Mp -> J.Hp because it’s more ambiguous.

  14. J.Lp and J.Mk - I guess I should mention these, since they’re her crossups…but I don’t use them. Oddly enough, you can link these two moves, but you can’t do it when you cross up. I don’t ever go for crossups with Elena, though.

B. Special Moves

Elena has great special moves…but none of them are particularly safe unless you use the EX versions…that’s just my opinion, though. The normal versions can be nice when used in combos, but that’s about the extent to which I use them. In any case…

  1. Spin Scythe - Sigh…this move would be really nice in any game without parrying…but I guess there’s no point in wondering what that would be like. Pretty much any person you play against will not fall for any of the built in tricks of Spin Scythe (additional hits, Hk Spin Scythe ticks), and none of the normal versions will combo in from any move you do. Thusly, you have to resort to EX. EX Spin Scythe, though, is very nice; it’s the staple of all her B&B combos. More on that later, I suppose…

  2. Scratch Wheel - I think I have a rather unpopular opinion of this move, as a lot of people like the normal versions. I think that none of the normal versions are particularly safe outside of a combo; Short and Forward Scratch Wheels won’t even hit jumping opponents right next to you if they’re on their way up. Wtf? I have no idea which of Elena’s limbs actually hit. Roundhouse Scratch Wheel is move effective in this way, but it still has its problems. Even if Forward Scratch Wheel has some invincible frames on startup, I think there’s much better, safer options overall for anti-air. I use the EX Scratch Wheel as a Reversal attack sometimes (it’s her safest option, which isn’t saying much, unfortunately), and I use the Short and Roundhouse Scratch Wheel in her various combos.

Actually, I found one very random use for Short Scratch Wheel: It makes a good Psychic DP attack when you use it in her wakeup game. What I mean is, for example, say you use F. Mk overhead and it gets blocked. Elena and her opponent recover at about the same time. Your opponent will naturally want to try and attack you, so you can just go for the Short Scratch Wheel and knock em down again. Of course, wakeup game is all about reading your opponents and training them, but should the occassion arise, this is an option at your disposal. …Oh yeah, and if they block the Scratch Wheel, you’re still in range for a Kara Throw. >:D

  1. Rhino Horn - I don’t think I need to say much about this…The Short and Forward versions are safe when blocked, but are also slow, predictable, and the Short version doesn’t travel very far. Let’s not even get into the fact that NO Rhino Horn hits crouching opponents. It’s my opinion that outside of combos, you shouldn’t even be using Rhino Horn to hit grounded opponents, anyways. Outside of combos, I use EX Rhino Horn in a similar fashion to Alex’s EX Slash Elbow; that is, I use it Psychic DP style to punish people that jump backwards (or even forwards sometimes, but much less frequently). Other than that, I just use the EX version in some of her combos.

  2. Mallet Smash - I used to like this move a lot, until I found out how great her command Overheads were. You can link the normal versions of this move into Scratch Wheels on crouching opponents, but if that’s the only time you ever used Mallet Smash, that might get a little predictable. You can do the same thing using EX Mallet Smash on standing opponents, though I don’t think that’s very practical, either. I use Mallet Smash only in certain combos, and to psyche people out by using it to cross-up, but that’s not something you should be doing very often. Suffice to say, I don’t use this move very much.

  3. Lynx Tail - …Has anyone EVER found a good reason to use this move? I think NO version of this move is practical. No normal version combos in from anything, and the EX Version frequently whiffs, not to mention there’s easier ways of knocking an opponent down that deal more damage. Don’t even bother with this move.

C. Which SA?

Boy…this is pretty hotly debated. First, let’s start with something everyone can probably agree on:

SA1 (Spinning Beat) is not very good.

Yeah? We can all agree on that, right? Cool. The BIG debate usually comes with which SA is better between SA2 (Brave Dance) and SA3 (Healing). Personally, I am an SA3 fan, and I think I’m the only Elena player I know that primarily uses Healing. Now, trying to use empirical evidence, here’s why I think SA3 is better than SA2:

  1. You can deal damage comparable to SA2 by using EX combos.
  • SA2 alone does 56 damage; C. Mp XX SA2 (the B&B using SA2) does 65 damage (FYI, all my damage data in this spiel is based on Ryu). Now, let’s take a look at some combos you can do without Brave Dance…

  • C. Mp XX EX Spin Scythe, Lk Scratch Wheel does 54 damage. Not bad for a combo you can do 3 times (technically 4 times, cos the C. Mps and Scratch Wheels will give you enough to do an extra one) with SA3, huh? You can do this combo anywhere on the screen, and, if you were able to land it that many times, it will do near 100% damage to most of the cast (It WILL do 100% damage to characters with lower vitality, like…I dunno…Yun and Chun-Li? Yang and Akuma? :D). It’s really not hard to build enough meter to do this combo, and you can use it without worrying about ruining any chance you might get%2


#2

I didn’t read the whole thing (I’ll be able to later tonight), but I have to say I think you aren’t giving enough focus to b.HK. That is pretty much her best “normal”, imo. Invulnerable to throws and most crouching attacks, crazy priority, and great damage/stun make it one of her most important moves. Since it moves her back it is safe if blocked, too.


#3

I forgot to mention the throw invulnerability, but I did mention everything else. It might not look like it cos I clumped it with the normal Roundhouse, but trust me; I don’t underestimate Back Roundhouse at all :smiley:


#4

okay, whew!


#5

I think you need to give the lynx tail a chance. I find very useful mixing it up with overheads and throws when an opponent is waking up. HK lynx also has sick range

There are certian properties for cancelling c.lk into a SA. I’m able to pull this off better if I keep her still for a moment. Elena would be devastating if this could be done reliably.

SA1 is effective against those pixies (yun/yang, Ibuki) and rushdown clowns.


#6

shankin, i thought your analysis of elenas fight stance was pretty good i have shown this oddity to my frineds where it is possible to move forward across the entire screen just by pressing back,
but i feel your anal-is-is of her normals and specials was to brief. i feel that every move has a use some just have a way more obvious use than others.
also the reason alot of emphasis is put on SA2 is the hit confirmable-nissisty of hit off c.mp when an opponent sees that you never miss he/she (but most likely he) will think twice before rushing you


#7

I love HK Lynx Tail when the opponent has no supers stocked. The range is just insane. If you use it from maximum range on a waking opponent and they block, you can usually parry their counter attack. This is because you’re so far away that you’ve already recovered by the time their attack reaches you. You have to be careful against some opponents, of course, but if you do it right it is an awesome trick.

I also like to use it to catch opponents who jump too much.


#8

I’ll try out some stuff with Lynx Tail, for sure…I don’t tend to use it on wakeup, though, as Lynx Tail from max range is much too far for a Kara Throw, and I like keeping my mixup games as ambiguous as possible.

As for the normals, I’ll add more…I just started out with the ones that were less situational, and commonly very safe moves. I just haven’t had much of a chance to edit it yet.

I agree that SA1 and SA2 have their instances where they can be useful, but I’m convinced that SA3 is the superior super in pretty much every situation. The only time SA2 might be better is if you consistently land C. Mp at its very max range, because it won’t combo into EX Spin Scythe properly from max range, but I don’t find that to be a very common situation. Elena can dish out the same damage with her EX combos as she can with her supers, so it seems more logical in all cases to just go with SA3.

But, if you guys want, I’ll throw in some stuff about SA1 and SA2. I still think SA3 is the best. You still can dish out the exact same damage as SA2 combos without SA2.


#9

in corner:
c.mk EX Spin Scythe, mk spin scythe, EX rhino horn , hk rhino horn

works on most characters, misses only the small ones (ibuki, yang, yun)
not sure at the moment what version of the rhino horn would do the most damage but its quite a good combo:)


#10

I’ve never been able to land that combo on anyone…I believe you, but I wonder how practical it really is? Can you let me know how much damage it does on Ryu, if you have the PS2/XBox version and training mode?


#11

it does 75 on ryu
i can post you a video to see the timing if you want


#12

Next time I play, I think I am going to try SA3


#13

That’d be cool if you could, nozarex. If anything, I’d like to just see it. I can get the Mp Spin Scythe pretty consistently, but I can never tack on any Rhino Horn afterwards. :confused:

rikc: Good luck with SA3! :smiley:


#14

here the video

im sorry for the bad qulity…well the video is even running faster than the game normaly is, but i think it will help you:)


#15

learning to do that combo in the corner isn’t game breaking but it is mos def an inportant weapon to whip out when it’s needed
as far as it being hard to do ,yea it is i can only do it about 50/50 in a real match, and when people see you do it it is pretty damn cool,
it does work on every char but some timing modification has to be made for some of them
for some chars like yun yand alex ibuki, Q chun and i think but am not sure of oro you can do the lk spin sythe, it won’t do as much damage but the timing is easier


#16

I just wanted to say that this was a really good FAQ. After reading it, I think I’m going to start using Elena, super art III version, because she seems like a cool character, and I also like picking characters that no one else uses. I already printed out the FAQ and practiced some combos today.


#17

Join ussssss

Though I personally couldn’t get into SA3. If you aren’t having much success, give SA2 a shot.


#18

Yeah, SAII seems to be easier. Particularly because I’m having a hard time doing her EX combos on the control pad… However, the healing factor is the thing that kind of makes Elena worth picking… If I was going to use SAII, then why not just pick SAIII Dudley who has more combos off a super art, that are easier to do, and that do more damage, considering that Dudley also has the better mix up? Or if I REALLY wanted to join the Darkside, I could pick SAII Chun Li who many people think does virtually everything better than SAII Elena (other than EX moves which do reduce the need for SAII)?

With SAIII though, Elena has a playing style that can’t be outdone by the rest of the cast… It gives her a style that’s original, and that’s really the thing that makes her attractive to pick. I didn’t really know how good SAIII or her EX combos were until I read this thread though… If I could get good with executing the EX moves, I think her style would work well for me.

It’s kind of like Hugo and SAI vs. SAIII. On paper, arguably SAIII is the better Super Art and it’s certainly easier to use consistently, but most Hugo players still like the 720 since it adds to Hugo’s intimidation factor and makes him more of a unique character… Likewise, healing and fancy EX combos are the things that make Elena cool and unique.


#19

I’m glad my Elena thread has inspired you! Damn, now I wish people liked 3S where I lived, so I could really finish this thread and do it justice. :confused: Anyways, I hope you stick with it. When I started playing 3S with my friends who were all good and shit, they told me to stop using SA3, and to stop using ELENA, actually; they told me that based on my playing style in other games, I’d be best suited to use Dudley. Well, I never still never learned Dudley, and now I never hear any flak anymore about my Elena SA3, mostly because I can hang with everyone I play now. Just stick with it!

And, I might sound harsh in my FAQ, but I wanna say that SA2 isn’t ENTIRELY without merit: First of all, it’s MUCH easier to do than any of her EX combos (though her B&B EX combos aren’t all that hard), it combos off of C.Lk (EX Spin Scythe doesnt), and it’ll combo of C.Mp from max range (EX Spin Scythe will not). Lastly, it’s decent to chip someone with; I guaruntee you won’t find a lot of people that know how to parry or Red Parry an SA2. :stuck_out_tongue: But, if these are situations you don’t find yourself in, or know other ways to get around, SA3 is superior in my opinion, cos it allows Elena to be aggressive or turtle. Do whatever’s best for you.


#20

Any good post stun follow up?