The "new" fighting game


#1

The release of KOF XII has made something very clear. The fighting games of today cannot stand on gameplay alone, regardless of how good or solid it is.

Even on fighting game forums the whole “gameplay is what matters” (pl)atittude is dying, and more and more attention is being given to netcode, extras and the like.

What does that mean to 2D games? People forgave BB for only having 12 characters, but what happens if they can’t pack the next game with anime and extras next time? Will BB2 be a nich-only game like all the GG revisions? Can the revisions even survive in this generation as it did in the “PS2 days”?


#2

Because extras is the only thing that makes KoF niche, right? Not the fact that most mainstream gamers have no idea what SNK is.

When will people get that through their heads? Why did SF4 do so well? Because A) it got hyped to hell and B) it’s Street Fighter. BB did well because it’s made by the makers of GG and has that “over the top” style that casuals like. KoF caters to a hardcore crowd and suffers for it dearly.

Did the lack of extras affect it? Surely. But was it the only thing that it lacked? No. And it’s a baseless assumption to think that.


#3

I am a huge KoF fan, and I have to agree and disagree with the both of you. On a tournament level, the gameplay mechanics is what matters. So, if you are a tourney goer and not worried about the extras and netcode, it should not bother you. But, if you are a casual player who has played only platformer and FTPs mostly, then you will need the extras and netcode.

Comparing SF4 and KoF XII, the only thing that puts SF4 over KoF XII are the extras. Because you need to go through the trials to get all the colors and personal actions (same with BB and their story mode.) Now with that being said, which one will I play more? KoFXII. Why? Like I said in the beginning I am a huge KoF fan and the extras and netcode mean nothing to me. (Not really, I like the character balancing a whole lot better.)


#4

I understand what you are saying, but netcode (especially in KOFXII’s case) has a large bearing on the gameplay. If your opponent isn’t sitting on the couch next to you, it’s unplayable - you cannot react to anything, just hit and hope.
The fighting system is great and fairly polished outside of radien v. elizabeth.
Getting “into” the game sucks. I’ve seen better menus in flash games and the online lobbies are unintuitive and lack necessary functions.

But yeah give me games with solid fighting systems and polished menus/online (SF4/BB) and I’ll take that over solid fighting system and shitty presentation. (KOF12)


#5

This is slowly becoming a vs. thread…


#6

All threads in the FGD are vs threads. Some just take longer to reveal their “underlying” nature of being a vs thread than others.


#7

Here comes the shitstorm…


#8

here we go…


#9

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#10

Not to be really off topic or anything, but after I saw this, I thought of the “Kenan & Kel,” theme song. Before clicking that link, I was thinking that it would be something related to the show. I was disappointed. :sad:


#11

Some of you people are being naive and a little stupid.

SF4 and BB did well because they marketed themselves outside of say ONE tournament (aka what SNK did for KoFXII) and fully acknowledged that their market can create a large following established from the casual gamer and that said portion of the market is where the REAL business is going to made, not the couple hundred or so people that used to browse SRK (before SF4’s launch).

That’s why Capcom and Ark went out of their way to aid them with the likes of a challenge mode, trial mode, tutorials, analogue stick assigned specials. That’s why 900+ entered SF4 at EVO, nearly 200 entered BB (which wasn’t even a month old at the time, let alone an official tournament), and why KoFXII is looked down upon for its online playability, because hell that’s all it’s got going for with the casual gamer.

You people can tout your opinions all you want on ‘gameplay is more important’ but this isn’t five years ago, where we would have lapped up anything Capcom threw at us purely for the drought we were in. It’s 2009, and if you don’t want to adhere to new standards and a new market, you’re going to fail pretty damn quickly, and it’ll be twice as hard to get up the next time.


#12

Sure they can.

Problem is, online didn’t even work and the majority of players buy the game for that. I guarantee you if online worked it would be still be getting decent reviews from the more mainstream gamers instead of the PATHETIC 60 it has on metacritic. Calling netcode an extra instead of lumping it in with gameplay itself is pretty dumb in this day and age.

Despite the AWFUL UI. Despite the complete lack of single player aside from training mode (the AI is so bad in arcade it barely even counts). Despite the other online bugs. If the netcode was decent…


#13

Word.
You just can’t go on gameplay alone when we’re so much more of a console country than an arcade country.


#14

I’m surprised to see the lack of “No Mai, No Buy”.

Btw, can someone tell me about these glitches?: http://hatimaki.blog110.fc2.com/blog-entry-1259.html


#15

Listen, The “Over the TOP” style of Blazblue isn’t an automatic seller that makes the casuals buy it. Why?? Because Casuals didn’t buy Guilty Gear. I don’t know where some of you got the idea that Casuals played Guilty Gear but that was almost entirely a niche based game with mostly hard core or semi hard core people. Blazblue to some extent falls in that same category. Many of my friends still haven’t heard of it. If I mention it at work, I get Stares. There wasn’t any commercials on TV that maybe would make it more visible to the general gaming public. If you consider blazblue doing well, then it did well almost entirely on a motivated Fighting Game fan populace that saw that it was A. A good game, B. A complex game, C. Had the best online this year, and D. Got good reviews for some that were on the fence.

SF4 did well because it was GOOD. Not because it was Street Fighter. Remember, Street Fighter 3 didn’t do Well, so Living by name alone isn’t going to cut it. You have to appeal to both Casuals, semi hard core and hardcore if you expect to have the monsterous sales that SF4 had plain and simple. In addition to being good, it did things right. First, It didn’t make the idiotic decision to take fan favorite characters in a FIGHTING GAME, and used Storyline as the reason why so many of the fan favorites are gone from a Fighting game like SF3. B. It has a playable online system. Though not the best, it is still is plenty playable. PLus, they even updated it after release and extended the online experience even further, C. It looks good. plain and simple. You may not be a fan of the art decision, but you can’t deny that the graphic engine looks good. And D. like you mentioned, it was advertised pretty well and pretty heavily. It pays a ton of homage to SF2 doesn’t hurt as well.

King of Fighters has an advantage over Blazblue because that idiotic comment that over the top sells, it is actually the opposite. Regular human characters like SF2 does much better than the Necros and the Qs of the world. King of Fighters and Blazblue, games that don’t have mass apeal nor great advertising must in this day and age get online. Remember when Sega didn’t put it in VF PS3??? Remember several of the later PS2 fighters, in this day and age, in the age of no arcades, you need online. So if you are going to get online it needs to be Playable, so Boom, 1st mistake.

B. You need to LOOK GOOD. Not just animate good, because have the casuals can’t tell the difference. But despite KOF’s natural advantage with normal characters, they squander that advantage by have PS2 level player graphics on top of PS3 level stage graphics. And I already know about the “time consuming dot technology” stuff, the fact is, to the eye it doesn’t look good so that is ultimately what matters (check that thread on this website and see the arguments for and against it).

C. You need to have a very balanced game of great offline play, great single player play and multiplayer play which includes great online play. Together that leads to a great review on multiple websites. BlazBlue is averaging a 90, KOFXII is getting 60s, if you think Joe Casual isn’t looking at these websites for buying tips then you must be out of touch with it all.

Even the 3vs3 thing didn’t go so well with KOFXII. We’ve all had the regular 3 vs. 3 characters thing like CvS2 had. But, it is rare when we actually get a TAG fighter. Some like the Marvel games had it, and then Tekken Tag had it. I thought it was going to be a trend, but it turned out to be an anomally. In 2009 (and 1/2) at least try to do something different if you are going to do something.

One last thing and I think folks on a website like this sometimes fails to think about. MOST people will not drive 50 miles to play someone let alone 2000 miles to go to a major tournament. MOST people will play against their friends (hopefully they have a lot) and their family members. Online allows you to expand your horizons but thinking that a good technical fighter, that fails in everything else is gonna sell is just naive. I loved VF5, but a weaker training mode than its predecessor, acting like Online Can’t be done, but then doing it 5 months later, poor AI sure didn’t help. Due to poor sales, they may not even release VF5R as a result but it is all their fault. Appeal to more than just the tournament crowed please.


#16

No Mai, No Buy!

There, happy?


#17

Oh shit that link I posted was SUPPOSED to be the keenan and kel theme song dammit. I guess I put the wrong url and didnt notice lol. Well I fixed it.


#18

I’m not even convinced that the gameplay in KoF12 is awesome. Although it isn’t Mexico, China is still a really SNK favoring country. No one wants to play that shit. The KoF12 cabs are empty while everyone goes on playing KoF98.


#19

^ Damn really? I know one thing I bought the game, but one of my best friends, a Looooooong time SNK fanatic and collector, wouldn’t get the game. He bought BB and doesn’t plan on buying this one until they step the character count and exrta content. Honestly he’s one of those no “K’ no buy” cats but still. I cant even really convince him to get the game because im a little dissapointed in it myself.

Hope this doesn’t hurt SNKs pockets too hard. Id hate to see a repeat of 2000.


#20

All would’ve been forgiven if there was Mai.

That and if anything, I’d rather wait for this game to go on sale. Sorry to say, but not willing to spend $60 for this game.