Definitely good vids. Most of this stuff I had to figure out by myself as I progressed in the game. I remember being wet between the ears coming into this game trying to use Chun Li like how I did in AE and it just wasn’t working. Just yesterday I went back to Chun and started working on finding ways to reset with Chun/Nina because both have the ability to keep you grounded for a tag cancel(Chun with her lightning legs and Nina with her flash kicks)and because after Chuns J.hp(target Combo), Cr.hp, into spinning leg kicks of course can be tag canceled out of into Nina’s Ivory Cutter(overhead)and that creates a pressure situation with Nina’s high/low options. Wish I could post a vid but meh…camera batteries are low.
Ok so I updated the first post and added some stuff…
Would be nice if some of you could give me links to other relevant videos/threads (I can’t find the super jump auto-correct vs roll btw. Though I remember having seen it)
I think this is the vid you are looking for [media=youtube]DxxZynSP2LI[/media]
I wrote about some of my findings regarding okizeme on my recently created blog. It mainly describes general concepts without going very much into specific characters or setups.
Edit: Whoops, I forgot something really important. I added one more point to my post, discussing standing resets.
Awesome thread and info to have, glad it got stickied.
Anybody have any tips on how to do the option select jumps for rolls? I do alright option selecting certain specials, but I’m finding the timing for super jumps really damn hard.
rolls are an option which sf4 lacks. Options are huge in this game. When you roll you do it to get out of pressure but what if you roll and you’re not in the life lead. You put yourself out of range to make something happen and thus your opponent now knows two things. You’re gonna have to go in or you’re going to tag out. If you roll away and you have the life lead it’s a smart move because you’re doing the right thing and not risking eating a 50/50 mix up. Xtekken cross ups are MORE ambiguous than in sf4 because some normals can cross up if you super jump and most opponents don’t know this. With my character lili if you don’t roll you commit to a 50/50 dive kick which will usually lead to your death; why eat that? But if you roll away nothing happens to me. I either os into divine step or dive kick build meter and do not risk anything; i’m safe. The situation is reset and sometimes its in my favor if i have the life lead. Look at how much transpired in that one roll and the outcomes that followed.That’s why i enjoy this game because each choice you make and each option you utilizes results into something. I think most players are still trying to grasps the options in front of them and why they benefit them in certain situations and why sometimes they don’t.
Yes and no because the rolls move you forward most of the time you’re actually going to be put in a more advantageous position when rolling then if you stood straight up, even if solely because you can get out of the corner with it.
I would prefer the rolls have some manner risk associated with them. That way the defender is the one taking the risk by trying to roll out, rather than the attacker taking a chance by trying to bait the roll. Look at your example with the dive kick. Yes that is reasonably risk-free if you assume your opponents only options are rolling, but in this game your opponent has a plethora of options. In addition to the role they’ve access to invulnerable back dash, several reversal moves many of which might even be safe if tag canceled and auto correct themselves. Even otherwise neat technology like the super jump option select has the downside of ruining your chances at a safe jump leaving you vulnerable to Dragon punches, which in this game, means huge damage.
In the end, it boils down to:
knockdowns = good if you have the life lead / not so good if your opponent has the life lead
resets = good if you want to come back / not so good if your opponent needs to comeback or if a normal combo would kill.
In this game, you are almost rewarded for being knocked down (since you often have more chances to get out safely than to get hit by something). That’s why resets are good: they deny wake up options and make it harder for the opponent to escape your pressure.
Health management is also huge because it basically decides where the pressure is and who is actually taking a bigger risk on knockdown situations.
For example: say I land a combo on you and knock you down. I throw a meaty projectile in case you quickstand, but you don’t quickstand. So then I stay at max roll distance expecting you to roll but you don’t roll. The situation is now reset: we’re both at neutral again.
If I have the life lead, I took zero risk and the pressure is on you because you need to tag somehow and comeback from behind. You need to take risks. I won.
If you have the life lead, I lost my momentum and you got out of my mixup safely. You won.
So how does one go about finding resets? Id like to think we haven’t found all of them yet. the ones in which a character can combo into a mixup, like King’s elbow smash, are easy to look for in the lab but aren’t there other kinds as well, like the ones ultradavid tried to collect?
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Poison does not understand the concept of a reset…but im trying to work something out in that regard.
rofl, I didn’t know that every character has a superjump xD
Honestly I actually didn’t believe in this silly oki poki stuff. So I added vulcan on xbox and played a lot of matches with him. I rolled on purpose to try to expose his “art” then when I rolled he did really mean things to me :(. To the point I couldn’t roll anymore because my sodium levels were so high I had to take my hands off the controller and meditate and I’d stand up in neutral. Fun games vulcan I like how you play! You could of timeout me when you had the life lead but your the type of player that thinks “It’s not a win till someones laying on the floor KO’d, “whats a timeout, eh I dunno?” ATTACK!”. Players like you make this game enjoyable, thanks for the fun ^.^!
lol yeah I got really mean and dirty setups vs every type of knockdown. It surprises people everytime.
GGs (do we even have a GGs thread?)
btw I do play really lame sometimes. Depends on the matchup I think and who I’m playing.
Actually we could probably use one around here.
Well, this stuff isn’t exactly “Oki” per se, but these are ways that you can mess with the opponent’s wake-up so that you will be in range to continue some kind of pressure no matter how the opponent gets up from a knockdown.
With Ken, if you do his forward throw, then immediately forward jump, if your opponent rolls they’ll be rolling in the same direction that you jumped. And if you do a delayed air tatsu, you’ll end up in cr.mk range whether the opponent simply stood up or rolled, which you can then proceed to CADC to get back in the opponent’s face. I believe the same principle applies to Ryu, as his forward throw is the same as Ken’s.
With Heihachi, if you do his forward throw, immediately dash twice, and then neutral jump HK, if the opponent rolls the opponent will end up behind you and the jumping HK will hit them, and you can then proceed to combo them (and if they manage to block it you can maintain pressure and continue with his devastating mix-up game). If the opponent doesn’t roll, the jumping HK won’t hit but you’ll still be in range to do either + :lp: (his overhead), :f: + :mp: (his low), or :f: + :lk: (frame trap), all of which can lead into full combos on hit.
With Abel, if you connect with any version of Tornado Throw or the Change of Direction combo (ending with the overhead grab not the low), if you do LK roll as soon as possible, whether or not the opponent rolls you’ll still be in step kick range.
Around 1:28 in this vid is a reset. You’ll see how effective it is in terms of resetting scaling and also optimizing damage. it’s nothing huge but i feel it fits here the best.
Really really late to this thread, I feel like I understand this gaME NOW!!! tHANKS SOO MUCH
Vulcan for president. I’ve been looking for soft knockdown spots over the last few days, but I really should be looking for resets if I really want to get anywhere.
EDIT: And I thought I should say this. For whatever reason, the second hit of EX Hakkesho will whiff on a juggled opponent. Hopefully, that’ll be fixed.
I’ve been trying really hard but i cant seem to get Poison to do a standing reset…
Vert told me to get Tapatalk 2
Unfortunately, not all characters have the ability to crumple or reset a bounce.
But all characters have the ability to CADC out of a link and EX CADC out of a chain. So that’s kind of a universal reset but not so good if you don’t have a comboable overhead and a fast enough dash. Without a good overhead, your only CADC mixup is to go low, bait or tick throw. But that can still be good at the end of a long scaled combo to get a surprise throw/frame trap. For example: 1 bar 400 scaled damage ending with (EX) CADC throw/frame trap. Then you can get 130/150 from a throw or 300/400+ from a reversal bait or frame trap/throw bait.
Sorry btw, I haven’t updated first post in a while. I’m too busy trying out the new characters hah. Will eventually get back to this with more vids and tech.