The (proper) Sonic thread: Live and Learn in the art of 'YOU'RE TOO SLOWWWWW!'


#1

Alright I’m rebooting this thread so that people who actually enjoy playing playing the hedgehog can actually have something proper to go too, instead of something that started with a question on whether he was garbage or not.

First thing is I’m going to post this vid that was donated by Zoogstin. This basically details the Homing Attack and how it works pretty well in general as well as gives a few little tricks that could be quite useful.

[media=youtube]1QMRT…eature=related[/media]

Sonic’s moves that have been known to K.O.: (when I say higher percentages…I’m talking about closer to the 200% range)

Forward smash
Down Smash
Up Smash at the higher percentages
Up tilt at the higher percentages
Up throw at the higher perecentages
Back air
Forward air depending upon certain circumstances (I.E. aerial pursuit, spring pursuit)
Up Air depending upon certain circumstances

Sonic’s worst matchups:
Metaknight
Ice Climbers
Wolf

Slight Uphill (usually these characters have 1-3 things that sonic needs to get around):
Pit
Falco
Wario
Ike
Dedede
Snake

Best matchups:
Bowser
Ganondorf

General Info:
First off…let’s get this out of the way. Most of sonic’s moves don’t really knock out at the same percentages as say Snake, MK, or any of the other heavy hitters. This is completely fine…it just means Sonic has to be patient and wait for the right opportunity…which he’ll get in due time. In my honest opinion, most of the time you’re playing sonic you need to be going for damage…if you’re 95% sure that you can get a K.O. then go for it. Otherwise, just attack and don’t worry so much about getting the kills while keeping yourself alive.

Up throw is Sonic’s most damaging throw so when all else fails and you feel that so and so has been alive for a bit too long…go for an up throw when they get to the right percentage.

Apparently it’s not really guaranteed to do an up tilt or up air after an up throw at 0%…but again it’s all going to be dependent upon upon where and if the opponent DI’s to.(from ski)

Sonic can be nabbed out of most of his spins if the opponent times things correctly so be careful not to be predictable. Although Sonic’s dash attack is good for doing small damage and keeping the opponent off guard, if it’s not spaced and done properly some characters can actually punish him afterwards if they’re completely ready for it.

Forward tilt is a really good poke…and also usually comes out faster than whatever your opponent has planned after being nailed with a dash attack

Down tilt actuall comes out pretty quick and moves sonic forward. It also has a good possibility of causing a trip. Often at really low percentages if you do a down tilt then an up tilt is almost assured to connect. Also dtilt has throw setup at low percentages with certain characters. Dtilt knocks the person slightly up in the air and before the character can do anything else perform a jab if he is range to stop whatever it is that they’re going to do next. They should land right in front of you to be thrown.

Sonic’s Up air has the most priority on it during the part of the animation where his hands are completely outstretched and his toes are pointed up at the tip. I’ve witnessed it beat out Game and Watch’s key in that manner. This is definitely something to consider when using spring pursuit against a who has decent priority on their moves…especially their down air.

Stutter stepping his forward smash increases the distance of the attack which can be done either normally without the c stick or done with the c stick. Basically what it does is move sonic forward a bit before he does the forward smash…so you smash the analog stick forward and instead of hitting the button immediately, you wait for a little more than half a second before pressing it. In order to do it with the c-stick it’s about the same thing except for hitting the button you’re moving the c-stick. This can help when you need just that extra nudge to get into distance for his smash and you’re just outside of another characters smash range…like marth’s.

If you happen to nudge an opponent off the stage with a dash attack then try using an up tilt to catch them as they try to jump. This can also be applied if they blocked the dash attack and sonic recovers just behind the opponent by tilting the control stick towards the opponent in a steep up diagonal, sonic should turn around before he does the 2 kicks.

Even though Sonic supposedly has little to know priority on his attacks…you’d be surprised what his Forward B can eat through. Update: Apparently Sonic’s forward B spin actually has small bit of invincibility frames once you let it go…I wish I could post up a video showing this but It can go clean through Marth’s Final Smash…this is not a viable tactic and I wouldn’t reccommend it but this is useful info.

Things that I’ve witnessed Forward B cut through:
Pit’s arrows
Snake’s Nikita
Metaknight’s tornado (once…never happened again lol)
Link’s Arrow and boomerang

most projectiles…that aren’t Falco’s or Wolf’s laser

The rule about most of sonic’s rolls to keep in mind is that his spins seem to lose priority the longer that they’ve been out. In example, 2 Sonic’s rev up their forward b’s and release them at the same time then they should cancel each other out. However, if one sonic let’s go of the forward b and the other sonic wait’s till the very last second before the spin hits him, then his should beat it out.

Spring can be quite useful. Not only is it good for pursuing after knocking someone high in the air for a surpise aerial…but it can also be used to bonk people on the head who think chilling on the ledge all day is cool. Make sure to give them a quick wake up call and drop that shit on their heads. Another tactic I like to use for people who think they can jump down and regrab the ledge all day is simply running off the ledge and quickly doing a back air to slam them up against it. SURPRISE ASSHOLE!

Cancel Shenanigans:

Sonic can cancel his Forward b spin and cancel the landing of his aerial down b spin on landing with shield. This makes for some interesting throw setups. (One thing to note…You can cancel the forward b spin anywhere during it’s rev up animation but as soon as it’s finishes, then you lose the chance to cancel it. Forward b spin can also not be canceled in the air but if you start it in the air and then land before the rev is finished, then it can be canceled)

1: dash attack fake- Simple as running forward and quickly doing a forward b into shield. In that manner you get the sound and the look of sonic about to run in and do a dash attack but instead you end up in a shield state that slightly moves you forward. This can work wonders on characters who usually have to fully commit to something to try to catch sonic as they end up hitting the shield and getting grabbed or wiff entirely. Often times you can catch someone off guard if you cancel at the perfect distance right out side of their attack range and belt them in the face with a forward smash or do a down smash if they’ve been dodging and rolling a lot.

2: dash attack fake into a roll- I use this often when it seems certain people just won’t stop trying to hit me on my way in regardless of how many times I fake. Run in and make sure to measure to measure the distance properly for your roll. Do the forward b cancel but immediately tap forward again to roll. This could be even more convincing since Sonic is still moving forward and you get the sound of the spin. If spaced properly you can get completely around to the other side of the attack and counter whatever it is they tried to hit you with or grab them if they’re shielding. If you do it properly it should all come out as one fluid motion and you don’t even see the shield before the roll, which is best to keep it as convincing as possible. I’m also not entirely sure but it often looks like doing this perfectly extends the distance of his roll a tad.

3: aerial down b spin cancel- Jump once rev it up a few times quickly and let it go, according to ski you can actually just hold the shield button after you’re done to land and cancel the spin before you take off. Done correctly with spacing and what not and you can land right in front of someone and end up grabbing them if they think you’re gonna hit.
One thing to note though is if you’re holding a direction upon landing and holding the shield, you instantly go into a roll in the direction you’re holding.

Speed Trap:
I don’t exactly remember who coined the name for this but it isn’t anything in particularly special…it’s basically Sonic tech chasing his opponent to death lol. Since Sonic is so fast there is a certain distance where it becomes hard to see what he’s going to do next so the opponent just has to choose. The distance is generally about the same distance as where your opponent is after a down throw. After doing a Down throw, the opponent either can attempt to do something fairly quick, jump, tech, or air dodge before they hit the ground, or just land on their backs on the ground. Sonic should be able to react to whatever it is that they’re going to do in this situation and even with the forward b fake…force them to do certain things depending upon character and player.

Ice Climber’s stage is the worst stage for sonic because he has no traction. It cuts his effectiveness back by about 50% because of it. It is banned however…so out of the banned stages sonic is probably going to have the hardest time on Hanenbow. Short platforms cut down down his ground game.

Character specific match ups:

Meta Knight:

I figured I’d start with him since this guy is Sonic’s thorn in the side. 95% of the shit Metaknight does will beat out Sonic’s stuff…no contest. It’s pretty frustrating trying to get in on this guy as at the start of the round everything seems to be going in his favor and Sonic ends up ‘trying’ to become a turtle. I say try because MK is probably one of the only characters I’ve fought against with sonic where I’ve been surprise grabbed frequently…aka you’re chillin a few feet away and you’re in the blocking mind set and you’re so set on blocking the next attack that you end up getting nabbed. MK can reeeeeally keep sonic off balance and not allow him to work his stuff so the best thing I can tell you as an overall tip is to chill out and be calm. Identifying certain situations will be the key to staying alive as long as possible and giving this fucker hell.

Most metaknights do this combination of moves: Down throw, f-air, up b. DO…NOT EAT ALL OF THIS…PERIOD. That shit owns sonic for free if you get caught in it. Things that can be done to avoid it is DI ing away from Metaknight so he doesn’t get the f-air and he’ll have to to try to readjust. Using your spring to get out it as well but that’s a lesser safe option if you’re off the stage.

If Metaknight is ever below you and slightly off to either the left or right and he’s pursuing you in the air…automatically assume that he’s trying to go for an up b and dodge accordingly. Even if he’s trying to bait out the dodge if you’re fast falling yourself down during the course of the dodge then whatever else MK has planed for you to eat will probably be the lesser of the 2 evils…This doesn’t count if MK is on the ground as eating a forward smash is probably just as bad as eating an aerial up b.

A general rule that I’ve come to realize in this match up concerning Metaknight’s spammable specials (drill, tornado) is that you usually get one free shield and that’s it…you either need to retaliate or run off to get some room in case he’s going to try again. A full powered shield can take on the wrath of a full tornado…but it cannot withstand it again. Always keep this in mind through out the entire match.

The tornado while spammable and is a big ass whirlwind of priority has it’s weaknesses. If you’re fighting a Metaknight that love’s to tornado all day try to smack him with a forward smash right at the start up of it if you can. Other situations…block the tornado and quickly punish it with anything that can reach him at the moment. Tornado has a bit of recovery after it and any good MK player knows this…so often they’ll breeze themselves over to you for a bit then try to breeze back out. Sonic ain’t having that shit. Sonic should be able to run over and smack Metaknight wherever he is before he can start up another tornado. It doesn’t matter what you punish it with…just DO IT. Even the small damage of the dash attack will do just to make MK stop his attacks for just a moment.

Metaknights who spam down smash all day are able to eat a quick forward b roll in the face. Because of the way how metaknight’s down smash is, Sonic’s forward b is perfect at the right distance to hop over the sword and smash into him.

Homing Attack should be used very sparingly in this match up as it could possibly do more harm than good most of the time. Only do it to throw meta off his game for a brief moment.

If Metaknight is doing his A spam and he continues to do so for a bit, quickly hit him with a forward smash or a forward tilt just out side of the range of the blade. I actually just tested it out in training mode just to make sure. If you’re just outside of the blade range Forward smash smacks him right in the face, no clashing no sonic getting nipped by the blade. Forward tilt is faster and a bit more reach but there’s a greater possibility of getting clipped. And actually just testing it now…down tilt also seems to work just as well as the forward smash just outside of the blade’s range. I wouldn’t advise trying to roll around it as MK tends to have a few hit boxes behind him if not spaced properly but I have done a dash attack fake roll and gotten behind him cleanly. If you happen to find yourself caught in it…don’t fret and just DI out of it and attempt to either forward smash or down tilt in case he’s still doing it when you get out.

Doing dash fakes to a grounded Metaknight will often tempt him to do something to clip you while standing his ground…Running towards MK and then suddenly stopping just outside of his sword’s range and swinging out a forward smash can work wonders.

If Metaknight is airborne then most of the time I wouldn’t suggest trying to challenge his attacks unless you’re fairly sure you can get to him before he can get his attacks off. Running and doing a short hop f-air does a pretty good job for pursuit.

If you get caught in an aerial drill, try DIing somewhere towards the direction of metaknight. I’ve often slipped out of it by doing this and that helped to avoid taking to much damage from the move.

Overall this matchup is probably Sonic’s toughest matchup…It’s going to be long and tedious if you’re looking to win it so good luck, If something else comes up I’ll be sure to update this section.

Ice Climbers:

ahhh…these lil bastards. I wasn’t expecting these guys to be that much of a problem…but I realized something was wrong when I first went up against them…and this was against an inexperienced Ice Climbers.

First off, I’m gonna start off by saying something quite obvious…they have hammers. Yes… big duh but guess what? Because they have 2 of em this cuts a lot of Sonic’s grab game out. You try to grab either one of these parka wearing punks with the other around and you better be prepared to feel some pain. Not to mention that the hammers > most of sonic’s attacks.

If you know the Ice Climbers then you know you don’t wanna get grabbed by them…I’m repeating this because most of the time during this match up you’re probably going to want to do his dash attack a lot. If they get hit it does a pretty good job of separating them at times…especially since Nana doesn’t immediately block as fast as the player controlled popo. Make sure you space the dash attack right and spam a good deal with it but don’t get too predictable. Most of this fight you’re really trying to damage nana so you can have a nice long conversation with just Popo later.

Ice Cubes are an annoyance and can easily mess up sonic’s ground game if they’re on the ground between him and them. Luckily you can actually attack the Ice Cubes to send them back…Ski actually helped with this. He suggests using a forward tilt to push them away. Though when you send them back it doesn’t do any damage to the ice climbers…it should cancel out the next set of Ice Cubes that would be coming. Forward B roll is also a possibility through the cubes if let go at the right time. Be careful of the distance if you’re going to do that though as if the ice climbers see that roll coming…they may try to quickly forward smash you out of it.

Homing attack also has a pretty good chance of separating them again from Nana’s delayed shielding so it may be a good idea to do it every so often. However be wary of up tilt…and well timed up smashes if they predict your timing correctly.

I haven’t fought the Ice Climbers entirely too much so this is mostly what I have from my analysis of previous matches…I"m sure more info will develop as it goes on.

Wolf:

I have XsamuaraiX to thank for thoroughly kicking my ass with this guy online. Wolf is IMO Sonic’s second worst match up. Wolf’s aerial game is no joke…I’m almost halfway suggesting don’t even try to challenge his aerial game…PERIOD. I am not joking.

Sonic has a hard time getting around Wolf’s laser spam. He can’t Forward b through it and he can’t attack it to send it back. He can try to jump over it to get to wolf but the problem in that is that it puts you in the air…and Wolf likes that. Online it’s even worse with the very small delay in inputs and what not. It’s easier to deal with offline because of perfect shielding and being able to move forward some before the next laser. Supposedly using a quick homing attack is another option and I imagine it probably works pretty well at certain distances.

Forward Smash in combination with laser spam ruins Sonic’s play time. Just when you’ve finally made your way to a certain distance after blocking a laser…You mistakenly let go of that block button and BAM! You’re socked and sent back out again to repeat the process. Almost reminds me of having to deal with Sagat lol. The best thing you can do in this situation is memorize how far Wolf’s forward smash can go and have it engraved in your memory…once you get in that far you’re going to have to rely on your instincts on whether Wolf’s going to forward smash, do another laser, or spam down smash a few times just on the chance of you rolling to try to avoid the first 2 options.

If you manage to get Wolf off his balance, quickly try to take the fight to him anyway you can before he has a chance to set up his laser wall again. Wolf can be put in throw mixups but Sonic always has to be weary of his claws clipping him on his way in. Wolf’s forward tilt does a pretty good job of this and has good reach for the speed it has.

Instant Ledge grab I imagine would work pretty well against him since Wolf has a hard enough time trying to get back on the stage.


#2

lol to be remembered in thread


#3

wait, Ice Climbers I can agree to completely. And Meta Knight fucks up quite a lot of chars in general… but what’s this about Wolf?


#4

This thread is already way better then the other one.


#5

lol…you haven’t fought a good wolf using Sonic before? It’s ALMOST as bad as metaknight…but that was my experience on line…I’ll try to go into more detail when I can work on the post a bit more

Glad to see the the info I’ve put up and put together is good…I’ve there’s something wrong or something I’m missing then don’t hesitate to correct me.


#6

Thank you for making this Sonichuman. I hating posting in a thread that compared Sonic to trash. =(

Also, I would suggest addin Luigi to the list of Sonic’s more difficult matchups. His insane priority wrecks almost everything Sonic does.


#7

what about Wario?

concerning Meta Knight, the only problem I’ve had with him is his tornado and side B move. Those used together well are hard to get past. haven’t had much trouble outside of that.

As for Wolf, I just don’t see what makes him a Sonic problem


#8

Well Metaknights moves all pretty much beat out sonic. f-tilt, d-tilt, u-tilt, fair, dair. He just has the priority, and he can kill sonic better than sonic can kill him (duh). Add to the fact you can’t gimp MK but he can gimp you, it just gets messy.


#9

Wow I did not know about the side b cancel. Gotta implement that into my game asap :looney: Also, I don’t think you mentioned this but if you get the opponent high into the air and you can’t double jump to get them, just use your spring to chase and keep laying the attacks on em. An Example of this would be here at 1:29 http://youtube.com/watch?v=BGaUXMuD1WE&watch_response


#10

I actually did mention that…when I speak of ‘spring pursuit’ that mean using the spring to quickly catch up to an airborne opponent to continue the attack.

Edit:

Ike is definitely more winnable now than he was first starting out…but that doesn’t prevent a,a,a from beating out a lot of sonic’s stuff as well as Ike rushing down an inexperienced sonic player with side b.

Wario isn’t too much of a problem either IMO but he has options against the hedgehog that shouldn’t be ignored…thus why both him and Ike are in the slight uphill section.


#11

continuation of character matchups

Pit:

This guy is annoying…He’s not really too hard to fight against as compared to Meta or Wolf but if you don’t realize a few things he can be a pain in the ass.

All of pit’s attacks standard attacks have pretty good priority on them…but sonic’s forward tilt can be used as a good poke against them. Even if the moves clash, if you’re at the right distance you should still just be outside of pit’s sword swiping range.

Pit’s arrow can do some serious damage to sonic’s ground game if he’s not careful. Thankfully Sonic can get around this quick projectile. Sonic’s forward b will actually eat through at least one arrow at the beginning frames so if you know pit is gonna be spamming them all day this could be one way of closing that gap. Something else to not is that when Sonic is charging his forward b, his body seems to become smaller and the arrow actually misses him completely, this also true for for his down b rev. When sonic is in his spin state on the ground from either his forward b or his down b the arrows JUST miss him. This means that Pit can’t just be mindlessly shooting arrows without having to curve them downward to ensure that they hit. I don’t advise using the Homing attack against the arrow because of both pit being able to curve the trajectory…as well as his relatively quick recovery after shooting one. Also something to not that the dash attack CAN actually go underneath the arrow but only at a specific moment in the animation when Sonic is actually fully curled up in his ball. It’s something to keep in mind but chances are if you’re getting arrow spammed, you’re gonna get hit before you can get to this state.

Angel Ring (IYAYAYAYAAAA!!) can be a bit of a nuisance since it can be mixed in with arrows while sonic’s trying to get his way inside. You can’t shield grab it but if you happen to be on the outskirts of the ring, you can smack pit in the face cleanly with Sonic’s forward smash. His fist will go right through the ring and deck him. This is while Pit has the ring out however, when pit lets it go a small puff of air seems to push you away and it will push sonic outside of the range of his forward smash…however you can inch forward a tad and forward tilt at Pit if he let’s go to poke at him.

Pit can also use his mirror shield to reflect sonic’s spin so be wary of this. Of course it’s funny when Sonic runs in and does a spin fake right outside of Pit’s sword range and Pit does a shield. Free Forward smash!!! If you think he’s going to try to reflect your down b or side b rolls then a quick jump into a quick homing attack should bop him on his recovery…it’ll make him think twice about doing it again.

I also should note that doing a fake into a roll can work pretty well when pressuring him since often times the pit player may try to use Angel Ring to stop Sonic from running in. Imagine the surprise when he goes whizzing past you and you’re now on the other side of him while he’s recovering from doing the move.

Don’t do Homing Attack willy nilly against Pit either because of his up tilt and his up smash is fast and spammable so he doesn’t neccessarily have to time his…especially since his up smash has 3 separate hits that cover the upper parts of his body fairly well. If you become predictable he’s just going to swipe you out of the air.

Pit’s neutral covers a good portion of his body, stays out forever, and will beat out a lot of sonic’s aerials if he tries to approach him from the front…Something to be mindful of

Falco:

Falco shouldn’t be too much of a problem but he can own you if you aren’t aware of a few things.

Falco’s laser acts like Wolf’s laser in that it can stop most of what Sonic tries to do. It has a higher rate of fire than wolf’s laser and add to the fact that you can’t forward b roll through it adds to it being a nuisance. Most of the time I get fed up with trying to dodge it and just take the hits while holding forward because eventually sonic is going to close that gap, in which case you can try to do a forward tilt to knock falco off balance…however that doesn’t always work because of…

Reflector. It can be used as a way of pushing Sonic back out of range when he gets in too close and it also has a high chance of causing a trip. A lot of falco players also like to use A spam into the Reflector as it works pretty well against most characters. If the Falco player is good though and knows this match up…he’ll be a good bird and only use the reflector sparingly. At max range on block, Sonic can punish Falco for using the Reflector. Anytime Sonic blocks a reflector he should immediately be on his ass for using it. If you get caught in A spam and you notice the falco player uses the reflector afterwards you should always be blocking afterwards so that when he does it you can punish him.

Sonic can be caught in Falco’s down air chain grab…only if you let him. If you think the chain grab is coming do an Up b and put a spring in his face.

Wario:

This fatty can give sonic a few problems if sonic isn’t careful…

No. 1 offender is Bite. Don’t do any attack in the vicinity of that mouth or you’ll get snagged…don’t even try to poke at it with forward tilt or try to go underneath the mouth with downtilt or you’ll get chomped. Bite isn’t unbeatable though…The top of wario’s head during bite is vulnerable without being chomped so you could do a short hop down air or neutral. If you really want to be a douche time measure your short hop right and just jump completely over the bite and do a back air to the back of his skull. Homing attack at close ranges works well…don’t do it at the greater distances however as sonic tends to come in more at a diagnal and he’ll get bit. Rolling to the other side of the bite works as well but if you don’t space the roll properly you will get bit, apparently rolls are vulnerable a bit on start up so if you try to roll when you’re really close to the mouth you get bit. Dash attack fake roll can also work well at baiting the bite out and getting to the other side if spaced correctly.

Because of super Armor on his forward smash it can also be used to ko sonic regardless of what he does when he’s in front of it…just something to be wary of.

Don’t try to challenge Wario’s up air. Trust me on this…

Wario shouldn’t really be doing his down smash…but he does do it and you’re at low damage or you block it…make sure you show him your appreciation for it. =D

Wario has pretty good air control so he tends to try to poke at you with forward air and then get back out of range…Sometimes Sonic can catch him with a dash attack as he tries to land though. Catch that fat ass!

Ike:

Ike used to be and still can be a problem. Sonic can do lots of damage with several hits…Ike can do lots of damage with just one lucky one. It’s probably a given as you don’t want to get hit period by anyone in this game…but when you’re fighting Ike…that goes double for the hedgehog especially. I still hear death whispering in my ear any time Ike swings that sword anywhere near me. 4-5 good smacks from him and the hedgehog is done so Sonic is going to have to attempt his best hit and run strategy.

A,A,A…if you block the first string you’re going to be in a mixup game with Ike, generally Ike player’s I’ve played tend to do the combo again after it’s been blocked. Don’t try to challenge it…just get the fuck outta there lol. If you’re absolutely sure he’s going to try to at least jab again, then it’s possible to roll to the other side before he starts it up again…but if he doesn’t then he might turn around and grab you. This combo also tends to either cancel or beat out most of Sonic’s spins: Forward b, down b, and dash attack…depending upon where he is in the combo. You Ike’s trying to stuff everything with this then try to bait him with fake tactics.

If the Ike is good in particular then he’s going to try to use his forward b to rush in on sonic. He’s not necessarily trying to hit him with it though as when he doesn’t hit you it barely has any lag. Blocking forward b is fine and can be punished…not blocking forward b and having Ike in front of your face is bad. Generally I’ve seen ike players use this to dash foward to get the a,a,a combo off or to quickly get underneath someone to do an up tilt or up smash…I do not recommend challenging Ike if you see him trying to set up for his up tilt or up smash…the risk to reward ratio is in his favor if he smacks you.

Do not challenge Ike’s up air…You want death so soon?

Ike’s neutral air does a decent job of covering himself, comes out at a decent speed and is pretty good at beating out some of sonic’s attacks…if you end up eating this on the ground…expect to be A, A, Aed.

Forward air takes awhile to come out so it’s possible to get to Ike before this move makes it’s way out and attack with a forward, or for that matter bait him into doing it since Ike has to try to calculate where you’ll be before he throws the move out.

Most of the time you’re so busy fighting Ike and trying to punish his slow stuff that you forget he has a fairly fast aerial. Back-air will own you if you aren’t careful…if you know ike is going to do it…then i don’t really reccomend trying to challenge it.

When Ike is trying to come back on the stage he has 2 moves that can pretty much beat out anything sonic has as he’s trying to come back on the stage…Forward b usually stuffs anything sonic tries to do to it…but the weakness in it is that if Ike hits you with it, it tends to stop his forward momentum and he goes down into the abyss at the right range…Forward b doesn’t kill you until you’re at a relatively high percentage so if you see him doing trying to get back with it, then it might be advantageous to try to challenge him. If you get hit with it…that’s fine you’re still alive and he’s not…if you attack him before he lets it go then that’s even better as it forces him back off further.

Up B is an entirely different beast and it’s hard to edge guard him when he’s coming up from the bottom. Because of both the sword and super armor Sonic is going to have a tough time intercepting him. I personally wouldn’t even bother with it…until he grabs the ledge. If you want to take on some measly damage then go to the edge and give him a spring to go through. Once Ike grabs the stage it becomes a slightly different ball game. Some Ike’s like to try to do a quick release of the ledge and do another up b if they’re being pressured for some extra damage. Try running towards the ledge to bait him into doing it but instead just run off the ledge and immediately do a back air, You may be able to smack him against the side of the stage during the pause that he flings his sword up.

Dedede:

This match up I wouldn’t even consider to much of a problem…except for oooooone thing. He can chain grab you. I didn’t know that he could chain grab Sonic but I got a rude awakening when I fought him. Best thing I can say right now is the obvious of don’t get nabbed and avoid getting hit with the hammer as much as possible…Dedede can out poke you with Waddle dee spam and forward tilt…and pleeeease try not to eat any gordos. Those will put a hurtin on the hedgehog. Waddle dees shouldn’t bee too much of a problem since they aren’t a laser. If I discover more about this match up I’ll update.

Snake:

Snake actually isn’t that bad of a match up for sonic if the player knows what he’s doing.

Disjointed hit boxes…just about everybody complains about them when fighting this guy. They affect sonic in the same way as everyone else in that most of his attacks can and will out prioritize the hedgehogs. General rule when fighting Snake to keep in mind though is that he generally doesn’t have any attacks that do a good job of covering both sides while he’s grounded. Zero suit Samus could at least use her up tilt since it does a pretty good job attacking on both sides of her but snake doesn’t really have anything like that. That means he has a weakspot behind him that you can abuse since he’s always going to have to turn around in order to retaliate to rolls…keep this in mind.

Sonic doesn’t fear c4…period. In order for snake to actually hit Sonic with c4 he’s going to have to either actually put it on him, or just get completely lucky. Sonic is moving all the time usually and it’s going to be tough for the snake player to try to calculate exactly when sonic is going to be near it. Snake players often tend to try to set off their c4 packs so early at times even when sonic isn’t really near it just in hopes that by the time they’ll set it off he’ll be over it. I’ve actually stood right over c4 before and as soon as I saw snake pull out the detonator I was able to dash off of it before it exploded…it’s that retarded.

Proximity Mines are a different story and can actually limit Sonic’s running space. This will not do since Snake tends to try to use the proximity mine in this match up as a wall to give himself some time to fire off a nikita or throw grenades freely without pressure. One way of getting rid of it is to run over to it and cancel your run with shield so that you detonate it and don’t take any damage. Another one that came from Ski is to drop a spring on top of the mine and detonate it that way. Sometimes though it may not be advantageous to do those depending upon different situations so you can actually use Sonic’s forward B to hop completely over the mine…You will have to space it properly though.

Sonic can use his Forward B to eat through Nikita’s that are about to hit him, however that doesn’t work if Snake knows you’re going to attempt to do this and he releases it before you run into it with forward b. You can knock the nikita off course but if it’s been released it’s not going to go anywhere but down…be wary of this.

Snake’s usage of the cypher can actually help sonic kill him depending upon where he is. Sometimes it may be better not to try to attack snake until he’s right above you at a certain distance, then quickly Spring pursuit into an up air when he’s at the right distance. But if snake is expecting this he can let go of it with a dodge…you can mix up and wait a lil bit then get into position to do a back air as he’s coming out of his invincibility frames. I have been clobbered some how by the Damned’s Snake in the process of doing this when he just did a back air…and he hit me with hit frames around the chest area of snake…so it’s going to be a complete guessing game if you do. I’m pretty sure forward tilt does a pretty good job of knocking snake off of the cypher…depending upon if he eats the last hit or not.

Snake’s regular A,A,A combo does a pretty good job of stuffing some of sonic’s stuff but for some reason his second hit doesn’t seem to have as much priority in the whole combo…If it appears that the snake player is just holding the button don’t try to go for a dash attack…but if they’re going through the combo you might be able to dash right through during the second hit.

(If there’s anything I’m missing or anything that someone would like me to add some insight on let me know and I’ll try post it)


#12

I was wondering about the roll. I play Jigglypuff and was wondering why sometime she’d beat him out cleanly and other times he’d win out. Also, high tier Sonic just might have a shot at being the Anti-Snake. Well timed rolls cut through Nikitia and Sonic’s speed allows him to run straight past proximity mines. Also, a tip against Meta Knight’s Mach Tornado–it’s vulnerable from above. Hard to time for most characters if he’s moving back and forth but it’s just something to note.


#13

Sonic unfortunately has a hard time cutting through tornado…I’ve even tried using his neutral air and only seen it knock metaknight out of it like one time. Most of the time It’ll eat like 2 hits of the tornado then Sonic will get caught up in the rest of it. Down air I’ve seen cut through 1 hit of the tornado from above before he get’s caught up in it. There’s nothing really reliable that sonic has to beat out tornado 90% of the time. And I’m pretty sure Sonic can’t just run past proximity mines…unless they’ve just been set.

Edit: tried it out…sonic can’t just run over them if it’s active


#14

Sonic vs g&w, what are your guys (sonic mains) opinion on this match up?


#15

You want some insight on what do do against G&W?..I’ve fought what I believe to be a pretty good game and watch so can try if you’d like…or maybe someone else has info on it?


#16

i’m a game and watch main, and i haven’t lost to a sonic yet. They get closer to beating me then most other characters though so i wanted to know how the match up is. Is it in favor of sonic?


#17

Nah I think the match is in your favor because you have disjointed hitboxes and powerful smashes. Your bair will hurt him a lot. I think a good Sonic could give you trouble because G&W is still very light.


#18

a few questions for any and all sonic players

what do you do against a good kirby?

have you entered any resent tournaments and if so what do you place and do you have any footage?


#19

I don’t think it’s really either one’s favor honestly if the Sonic player isn’t blindly running into shit all day and is relatively patient…I haven’t fought game and watch in a loooooong ass time and I’m probably out of practice since the game and watch player I always play is in Virginia Beach at the moment lol. Next time you’re on and I’m on just grab me and say…‘SONIC…HURT ME…ALOT!..MORE SONIC…HURT ME MORE DAWG!’ and I’ll say…‘uhhhh…aight!’

Kirby? I haven’t actually fought to many good kirby’s save for one that actually put me in this funky ass grab mix up at low damage that made me go ‘wtf!?’. i don’t remember who’s Kirby it belongs too either but that was the best one I’ve fought currently…I can’t really provide too much insight on it…I’d have to fight the match up more.


#20

In all honesty, I’m kinda disappointed by this thread. I was hoping the fine people at SRK would be able to think a little more creative. Oh well, time to work on the corrections:

First off, Sonic actually starts killing at about 120-130%, consistently. If they’re making it up to 200%, you’re doing something wrong. Also, you can kill with uthrow at 200+%.

Bair, dair, the tip of fair at the end, fsmash, and dsmash all work well for killing. I dun like Uair as much as I used to, long long ago.

Sonic’s worst matchups are GaW, MK (possibly), and Luigi (hardest match ever for Sonic).

Wolf is hard when you don’t know how to fight him. Throw him off the stage, edgeguard, ggs Wolf. Also, learn to perfect shield. You can punish everything if you can perfect shield. Bait the fsmash, that thing has hella lag at the end, and can be easily punished.

Falco is actually an even match (and I say this after playing Sethlon’s Falco). Just don’t let him gimp you, and you should come out on top.

ICs are rumored to counter Sonic, but I think it’s only slightly in their favour. Just gimp Nana, then it’s easy mode. Sonic can gimp, therefore…

Why the HELL do people say Pit is an uphill battle? I want to make this perfectly clear:

In Brawl singles, I have not lost a single match to a Pit player. This includes multiple Colorado tournaments, AZOneTwo, and even online play, where I become a garbage player, and Sonic is hard as hell to use. You can go through the arrows with >b, or just run and perfect shield them as he fires, then proceed to run and punish while he’s still lagging (YES, SONIC IS THAT FAST!). Throw him off the stage, then gimp his terrible recovery (YES, IT IS, IN FACT, TERRIBLE!). Repeat for 3 stock. He’s seriously the easiest match-up ever for Sonic, including Bowser. I give Sonic either a 7-3 split, or an 8-2. It’s that easy.

Wario is tricky. He has the bite, which stops you completely from pursuing him and applying pressure with >b cancels. He’s heavy. He kills early. As long as he has the bike, he has a ridiculous recovery.

What does Sonic have?

Dtilt, usmash, and dair. Dtilt or usmash him when he bites (usmash is invincible on the ground, so you go right over the bite hitbox), grab him, get him off the stage, then hit with the sweetspot dair when he hops on his bike. He’ll die.

Still, one of Sonic’s tougher matches, if you play dumb.

Ike is RETARDED easy. He’s slow, his recovery blows, and all you have to do to stop ANYTHING of his is perfect shield. Again, get him off the stage and gimp, gimp, gimp. Just be wary of him taking you with him when he does that last upB.

Dedede is only able to compete with Sonic because of his CG. Without that, he’s nothing, seriously. Waddle Dees are slightly annoying, but really nothing bad.

Snake is Snake, but Sonic actually fares somewhat well against him. Just never stop the pressure, and perfect shield EVERYTHING EVER.

Another thing I feel that needs clarification:

Metaknight has JUST as much trouble killing as Sonic does. Keep that in mind when you fight him. Before 120%, you’re safe. After that, bait the upb, fsmash, and dsmash. You’ll be fine. Watch out for nair at later percents. This guy isn’t easy, but he isn’t retarded hard like Luigi.

Also, you can gimp him with dair (srsly, guize, it’s Sonic’s best aerial)

Use dthrow to tech-chase everyone ever (except Wario). It doesn’t do HUGE damage, but it sets up for anything you’d ever want. Bthrow is also nice, as you can follow with a usmash. :D!

Against heavy characters, try to start each stock with uthrow>utilt. Free 20something%. Nice.

You should also know that you can actually set up jab locks relatively easy against the ENTIRE cast below 30%

Dtilt links into itself, or utilt, or a grab. I prefer doing dtilt>dtilt>jab>grab, personally, at early mid percents.

>b has invincibility at the very beginning of the hop. Just so ya know.

Don’t dair after every spring. You will get raped by competent players.

I like to drop a spring after a failed >b approach, so that it hits them when they try to drop their shield. Not much damage, but damage is damage, amirite?

Dtilt and dsmash both have IASA frames. Use them to bait people into getting hit. I think fsmash does, too, but I can’t tell for sure.

ASC, or Aerial Spin Charge, is when you charge vB in the air, then proceed to attack with it. It can hit upwards of 40% in one small string. Amazing.

Sonic’s worst stage is Battlefield. It ruins vertical speed, and lets the opponent set up bad traps. I ban it every time. IC stage is banned in any decent tournament, anyway.

You can beat MKs tornado with fsmash, or possibly ftilt. Also, a dair from above, if aimed right.

Usmash is godly in this (and virtually all) matchup. Use it to dodge and punish, people. Also, most MK players aren’t familiar with how Sonic plays. Keep this in mind, and use it to your advantage. In teams at AZOneTwo, I took out both a Kirby and a MK when my teammate was dead, and I was at high percent. On their counter-pick, to boot. Remember, a lot of people are unfamiliar with Sonic, and use his oddball invincibilities and tricks to win the match.

Against ICs, substitute grab with >b. Use it to get Nana in the air, and keep her there until she’s dead. Once she’s dead, treat Popo like a retarded… anything. Just watch out for blizzard and infinites.

In other words, don’t get grabbed, and you’ll be fine.

Don’t do anything predictably, especially dash attack. That’s retarded.

Against Wolf, stay airborne. His game is weak. Fair beats damn near everything he has, aside from maybe bair. In that instance, just usmash him. Bait the fsmash (as mentioned before), perfect shield everything, and get him off the stage. I used to have problems with Wolf, but then I fought him more, and found out it was just due to my own ignorance in the match-up. Own and bone, guize.

Oh, and you can spring outta Dedede’s CG after the 2nd or 3rd one, due to hit decay.

THE MORE YOU KNOW!