The Shoe on the other foot. Ever fought against Gouken?

gouken

#1

Gouken’s my main and I’ve managed to get a pretty good handle on him. He’s easily my most effectively used character in the game, followed closely by Zangief and Dhalsim.

Last night however I played a mate who decided to give Gouken a try. He’s used him on/off a few times before but has never really persevered with him (he’s a Balrog player) but through playing me has learned a few tricks and tactics for using Gouken, much like I have learned some neat stuff that pertains to Balrog from him.

Anyway, versus Gouken. Goddamn. I had no idea how utterly powerful Gouken ‘feels’ to fight against when used right. When you’re on the receiving end of Gouken’s toolset, everything happens so slowly and painfully. Each hit resonates for quite a long time and you seem to lose health in big chunks. When you’re caught with Gouken’s Ultra all you can say is “Ooooh, fuck” and when you get countered the way in which you are smashed across the screen is something to behold - it makes your character feel so puny and weak and paints Gouken as a powerhouse.

The character personification Capcom has put into Gouken in terms of how he plays and most importantly - how he feels to fight against - is spot on. He is like a fortress and every time a combo or devastating attack (particularly his Ultra and counters) connects on you, you certainly don’t dismiss it.

I’ve never really played against Gouken and last night was quite an eye opener. It gave me a new insight into the kind of experience others perhaps have when I use him and frankly it feels really cool. As I was taking a beating from the character I love to use I couldn’t help but laugh out loud and say “Holy shit, this is what this crap feels like!” as I was getting the shit smacked out of me by a burly and powerful old man. When you’re not controlling him (at least for me) he also strikes me as much ‘larger’ and more imposing. He exudes very strong character and style in how he plays and I also found his game quite varied from an opponent perspective due to the sheer amount of options Gouken has to deal on you.

In the end I won all of our matches (playing as Ryu) with the exception of one due to the fact that I’m well aware of Gouken’s holes that can be exploited if you’re not familiar with the methods used to minimise those holes. Empty jump-ins to bait counters being clearly among the most advantageous which can be abused to the point where you shatter your opponent’s (controlling Gouken) confidence in using counter in many situations.

Either way, fighting against Gouken for a change rather than playing as him validated one thing for me still: Gouken rules.

Anyone else experienced this? For me here in Australia Gouken players are extremely rare. I believe I am only one of a small handful of people actually using him so as a result I don’t get to fight against him much at all. In a way I’m glad - because fighting him was no slouch-match, that’s for sure.


#2

I am usually surprised at how terrible my mirror match capability is…


#3

Gouken’s really good.


#4

For me it’s the opposite. When I play against him, I realize how very weak he is in certain areas.

His weak areas:

  1. If you keep him full screen with a shoto and you are not too predictable, he will have a hard time getting in. The Palm can’t reach you and you’ll have enough time to do something about the Demon Flip.

  2. His wakeup game is horrendous. You can play some serious mind games on your opponent because their options are so limited.

  3. He won’t damage you badly if you don’t give him huge openings. It’s not like he is going to wreck you into a combo after a few pokes like some other characters.

  4. Empty jump-ins like mentioned above can really take away his parry game.

  5. I don’t get thrown as much because his range doesn’t seem as good as alot of other characters.

His strong areas:

  1. Demon flip into throw is really annoying, especially at distances where you are not sure if it was a jump or a demon flip.

  2. His does massive damage for so little investment in terms of meter.

  3. His parries do alot of damage.

Basically, I don’t find him that difficult to play against. Part of that is just knowing him well so you know what tricks not to fall for, like c.hk’ing after Palm. And also, you know what to do against him because you know what people do to you that gives you trouble.

My general opinion of him is he is overpowered (due to punishing ability) at lower levels of play but is underpowered at higher levels of play.


#5

He plays like a nightmare mode Akuma… untill he gets knocked down.


#6

Just how good Gouken ppls have you fought?
Gouken can make openings himself, that’s the hole point.
Empty jump-ins? Gouken can bait any AA and air-parry (except multihits), ready to backthrow->ultra when oppenent comes down again.
If you don’t get thrown alot, and never se backthrow->ultra, you must be playing Goukens that haven’t even completed hard trial 1.

So, I think he is badass in the right hands, but absolutely shit in scrub hands. Therefore scrubs choose Ken, rigth?


#7

I lol’d at that.


#8

when Gouken predicts your moves, that is the real fear… because you know he have a lot of weak points (starscream pointed those), but…
-if you are afraid to jump because he predicts your jumps with gohadoukens…
-if you are afraid to fireball, because he predicts your fireball and demon flip or palm you…
-if you are afraid to hit him because if he sees it, you will be countered…
-if you are afraid to grab him, because he knows you will do an empty jump and will grab you before yours come…
-if you are afraid to FA, because a palm breaks it…

When that happens, when the gouken player guess right a couple of times, the enemy just freezes and turtles because he is afraid to do something because you have a counter for anything… That’s when they know the real Gouken.

The shame is when you don’t guess right, you go to the floor, and get harrased 3 times trying to wake up…


#9

Let’s see:

Guile - Flash kick armor breaks
Sagat - TK armor breaks, EX DP, s.hk
Viper - HP Knuckle Armor Break
Balrog - Headbutt allows him to get a good distance from you
Vega - EX Flip Kick is multi (I forget if it armor breaks)
Ryu - EX DP
Ken - HP or EX DP
Rufus - if he can anticipate, snake strike is multi
Zangief - PPP Lariat
Seth - teleport, multihit DP
Bison - teleport, EX Stomp, EX Crusher
Sakura - late EX DP
El Fuerte - air grab
Chun Li - EX SBK
Fei Long - multi hit flame kick

I am sure I am missing lots and this doesn’t even include AA normals as well as jumping away and attacking. And what does it have to do with empty jump-ins against Gouken?

As far as not getting thrown goes, I know how bad his range is on his backthrow and I know how awful his poke game is. So I am willing to take 4 jabs if it means not eating a backthrow into an ultra.

I am not saying that Gouken is horrible. However, someone who uses him will know his tricks, weaknesses, moves that work against him, and how to punish and counter his tactics.

Don’t make assumptions about other people’s opponents just because you are defensive about your main character. He has some huge limitations.

BTW, every character is “badass in the right hands” and “absolute shit in scrub hands”.

One more thing, Ken scrubs have now moved on to Akuma. I rarely play against Ken nowadays.


#10

lol, yes.

Thats because a barrage of Akuma’s air fireballs is an utterly inpenetrable forcefield of win-button glory!

So instead of backjump, hadoken, shoryuken . . .

We now have:

Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE!

FE!

FE!

GOHADOU!

Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE!

Ruh roh, meter! blind raging demon

Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE! Backjump, FE!

:smiley:


#11

what is fe?


#12

Back throw > Ultra is only going to work consistently on muppets who can’t tech. You have about six days to tech Gouken’s backthrow - its crazy.

Best use of it is to use it in states where they cannot tech - such as at the end of failed/blocked specials.


#13

What Akuma says when he hurls air fireballs with Japanese voices enabled.

It sounds funny. It sounds even funnier when people do it constantly.


#14

The only time you’ll land a back throw is if they DP and you’re punishing them for it, or they were really off the ball.


#15

The same thing happened to me before, its like they somehow learn your tactics and use them against you lol…i remember when I was Backthrowed>Ultra…you feel so helpless when that happens lol.


#16

Sounds like you need to make the " Akuma Flow Chart".


#17

But Akuma doesn’t “SHOUUUUUURYUUUUUKEN!!!” like ken does.
Akuma flowchart would be more complex and less funny IMO.


#18

back throw has the same range as regular throw, so far as i can test it. I don’t know why people are saying it doesnt.


#19

even lulzier is when the guy fails at raging demon, and Akuma does the little jab, jab, kick thing from across the screen because he can’t remember you need to press BACK instead of forward now


#20

gouken vs gouken is very tough because of jumpin with ultra. If it’s a jumpin attack, he can take off half your life. If it’s empty jumpin with a throw, then he can take off half your life with ultra. It sucks!