Considering how long a competitive fighter can remain relevant and selling (both the game itself and the DLCs) to its very dedicated audience, compared to very high selling but far less enduring titles, I don’t think the answer would be so obvious.
And by the way: I watched MK9’s story on Max’s stream, supposedly the greatest story a fighting game ever had, and boy. I liked it, I thought it was very fun, but no. “Raiden manages to fuck everything up even with spoilers of what was going to happen and the Elder Gods are arbitrary bitches” is not a good narrative.
I liked how MK9 had groups of people constantly coming in and out of random new stages though its first half kinda like A Shadow Falls though.
And MKX had an average playerbase of around 700 before 11’s announcement, just for reference.
“Bison does…something…but really it’s FANG…but really it’s maybe some hacker girl? Oh and Rashid has a friend…that’s never shown but they’re really important…then Karin organizes everything and Ryu does nothing but shows up at the end to blow up the Death Star. Also super important guy Necalli is a chump and does nothing of interest but one time he was a sheep. Oh and Charlie dies again. Again.”
And MK9 was the best story mode to that point. It’s been surpassed by Injustice 1 and 2.
SF couldn’t even get up to the standards of MK9 for coherence and presentation…something that came out years before it. ASF is a jumbled mess that teeters on incoherence.
Not to say that I don’t agree with you Yagami, but I think you should also consider that Street Fighter V’s sales do NOT include Arcade Edition’s as far as I am aware. And considering it having generally good word of mouth and coming at around the same time as S3’s announcement which sparked up the game again, I think between the two releases SF5 sits confortably above 3 million. Which still isn’t the greatest number ever and the re-release costing in the first place, but it does paint a fairer picture.
I’m pretty sure it does. AE did not move the needle on SF much at all.
Also people thinking SF’s long milking of DLC is a way to generate the sort of revenue that initial game copy sales of MK or Tekken or DBZF did =
The longer a game requires a staff, the more money it requires for overhead. SF is selling DLC to a relatively small player base because, simply put, the game doesn’t warrant a sequel because it wasn’t a sales success like they predicted.
MK11 is coming out because MKX MURDERED sales numbers, got through its DLC cycle and got OUT. This means their development resources can go towards other games like Injustice 2 and then MK11 that will generate them more and more profit because of the previous success they had. SF’s business model is the model of an under performing game eking out more money from a small player base with things primarily like cosmetics that appeal to only the hardest of hardcore. They are cheap to produce and crap out while the characters themselves keep the game on something resembling life support.
Again, if you think Capcom wouldn’t trade the SFV model for the Mortal Kombat model and the relative success of the two, you are 100% delusional. Each DLC release is a smaller and smaller return on investment as the game continues to slowly bleed player base which means bleeding purchasing base. I’d be willing to bet that MKXL likely made more money than all of the DLC for SFV combined.
Sales and relevance in the market are what make something PREMIERE.
MK has BOTH over SF. It is more profitable, more well known, more well regarded and a bigger name brand.
What’s more likely to be announced tomorrow? A new Mortal Kombat feature film? Or a Street Fighter one?
Mortal Kombat has always beaten Street Fighter in sells. Even the shitty 3D games. I think it just has greater brand power in general. The Fighting Game Division for Capcom definitely gotta step it up for their future projects, though. We know Capcom can make incredible games as long as they take their time with it and give it a great budget. Remake 2 and DMC5 are both GOTY candidates despite not even being released yet.
I want them to give that same love and attention to their fighting games.
I feel like a good 1st step is having better PR in place for their fighting games. MVCI was…yeah, and SFV literally has no one speaking on the game. Just “wait until further updates. we’re doing things differently”. Stuff like that only adds to the problem. Communication is key.
I know NRS gets tons of shit, but they maintain great communication and pack their games with a crapton of content. Capcom just gotta follow the formula. I’m hoping the Monster Hunter guy (not sure who’s idea it was to put ads in, but whatever) can bring his success to Division 2.
I can’t shake the feeling that SFxT really exposed how out of touch Capcom is with their fighting games.
They had ZERO faith in SF and SF4 had to be begged for by Ono…and it became Capcom’s biggest game in a long time and brought back the genre. That signals MASSIVE ignorance on the part of those in charge at Capcom.
And what’d they follow that up with? SFxT which was transparently designed to milk the fanbase they didn’t even think existed right before that. It was another utterly out of touch decision made to return ZERO good faith towards the fans that had just handed them a mega hit.
Since then we’ve never seen the likes of SF4 again and instead things like MVC3 (oops I mean ULTIMATE MVC3…) was totally half-assed and exploitative. Then eventually we got SF5 which was quarter-baked at best. It took any faith people had in Capcom fighters out behind the wood shed and put a bullet between its eyes except for the more hardcore devotees.
Meanwhile, Ed Boon is legitimately the coolest, nicest, most fan-supportive guy out there. Is he a troll? He is the OG TROLL! And he does it with love and the community loves him for it because he makes sure the games deliver.
Monster Hunter World had that level of appreciation for the fans and pure content and effort put into the game.
We’ve yet to see that for Street Fighter. Instead, those games seem rushed and designed to try and exploit nostalgia and a market that Capcom, in their ignorance, had previously written off. It’s insulting.
Ono seems like a nice guy that’s passionate about making games just like Harada…but he seems stuck under a hierarchy that has no idea what they’re doing with the brand.
That’s just dumb, even if SFV sold massively it still wouldn’t have seen a sequel for years because the game was always meant to have a long development and a long stay for the competitive scene and the esports project Capcom has, the one that you are completely ignoring because you think it’s a niche even as Capcom continues to repeat that they consider esports one of their most important investments.
This is just being completely ignorant about how competitive fighting games development work.
Then Capcom itself is delusional. In their own financial reports they clearly think that long term games aimed at esports are the way to go, and games that last for mere two years is not what they want.
MKX stopped being remotely relevant in 2016, this is how the yearly viewership on Twitch for SFV looks like compared to MKX. And this viewership has financial and economic implication since it moves sponsors and esports money.
How can a series with no viewership at all be considered premiere at anything?
Street Fighter and Tekken currently share the premiere over the genre as they’re the only series that managed to unite solid sales and popularity among general gamers with a solid competitive scene, the one thing that Mortal Kombat lacks. Out of these two Street Fighter’s tournament scene is generally bigger, but Tekken is not awfully far.
SFV team did so much bullshit on multiple levels lol, there are so many things they did wrong (and keep doing)
Whatever SFV achieved is in great part thanks to brand having an history of loving fans
On other hand i see many hoping for an ambitius SF6
Not sure if i want it, actually more inclined to think i will get a better SF if it stay “side-project” as somebody defined it, just with more old school love/respect for quality and way less SFVish “bullshit on multiple levels lol”
Again SFV did SO many things wrong and still someway sold a decent number through (deserved) internet shitstorm, imagine if they did’nt gone full retard every 2 weeks LOL
If “ambitius” SF is to follow what modern capcom tend to do (shit on theyr tradition and suck dicks) i don’t want ambitius SF
If this is ambitius SF
That is a STUPID business model. Major games do not exist on a trickle of DLC money over years and years and years. It is not a freemium game with a model to support it. It is not an MMO. It is not some phenomenon crushing ratings and getting insane sponsorships and viewership and contracts.
That is not reality.
This is like pretending Magic the Gathering could survive entirely on ONE SET RELEASE with a few alternate art card releases over the years that follow because of it’s competitive scene. Yup! We nailed it guys! Mercadian Masques was so good that we’re supporting it for half a decade! 6 months from now will see the release of 10 more cards and then another 10 cards every 6 months after that to support it! Our competitive scene is gonna be lit and we’ll be rolling in cash!
If SF could release a sequel every 2 or 3 years THEY WOULD. They are not GTA selling sharkcards for billions of dollars in profit. THAT is a model that works. That is not a model that SFV has.
If SF were more successful and more relevant, they could release a sequel every couple years instead of occasional incremental upgrades that require minimal effort, time and investment for commensurate minimal return. They are stuck in an arcade mindset that they apparently never outgrew in regards to Street Fighter and it hurts them because things like “Ultra Super Duper Uber Street Fighter 5.7” become a meme that push people away from buying the game because they think Capcom is just going to release multiple iterations later for the same price or cheaper (and sometimes they’re right).
Why does Madden or Fifa keep releasing sequels? THEY CAN.
Why does Call of Duty? THEY CAN.
Why does Mortal Kombat? THEY CAN.
SF can’t. Simple as that. They have a sub-par business model because their product has sub-par sales and they have sub-par sales in part because they have a sub-par business model. It feeds back into itself in regards to Street Fighter. This hurts them because they do not develop hype in the market. Mk X? That makes things hype after a huge MK9. MK11 makes things hype after MKX.
Does Arcade Edition make things hype after SFV? No. Most people don’t even know it exists and it sold nothing. Would an SF6? It’d be more hype than SFV AE…but would the development cost outweigh the risk because of the bungled release of SF5? No, probably not…and that’s because of Capcom’s own decision making in regards to SF5 (and some previous titles).
SF was back on top with 4.
They squandered that.
Capcom didn’t think an SF4 would be successful.
They thought gems would be a huge, profitable success.
Capcom thought SF5 would sell multiple millions of copies within its first year.
Capcom itself is delusional in regards to their fighting game division.
You are making my argument for me.
“Hey man, what’d you think of MKX?”
“Oh so cool man! They had like Predator vs Sub-Zero and shit! I played the hell out of it! MK11 is gonna be sick!”
“Hey man, what’d you think of Street Fighter V?”
“…huh? I dunno, it looked kind of ugly and didn’t it not even have a single player mode or something?”
The literal discussions you have with regular video game players about the the two games.
“sponsors and esports money”
People that play SF on stream for lulz make more money on SF regularly than Capcom does. Oh wait, the most relevant fighting game streamer, Maximilian, doesn’t even play SF5 anymore because it’s boring and didn’t get him viewership. Onto bigger, better and MORE RELEVANT things.
[quote=“Phantom_Miria, post:4668, topic:576649”]
How can a series with no viewership at all be considered premiere at anything?[/quote]
Short term profitability.
Long term marketability.
You know, those things that contribute to anyone knowing about your product and your ability to make future iterations of that product. There’s a reason why we’re on MK11 and we’re only on SF5. MK has remained relevant longer with stronger sales and profitability. The same reason Tekken is at 7 by now.
Twitch views by small numbers of gamers are NOTHING in the marketplace. They’re a drop in the bucket. Good to have, but anyone would prefer MK’s sales numbers.
“Hey do you want to sell two and a half million more copies of your game…or have it stay watchable on Twitch longer?”
Only an idiot developer says the latter.
That’s your metrics.
Irrelevant to the actual market or to those factors I listed above. SF could be premiere but they’ve dropped the ball multiple times and left it to brands like MK and Tekken to carry it…and they have. They picked up SF’s slack and ingrained themselves into the market and the culture.
What is more likely tomorrow? The announcement of a new MK feature film? Or an SF feature film?
Even if BOTH were announced…which would get more hype?
If you say Street Fighter, you are totally lying to yourself, man.
MK gets that normie money because MK is more relevant which means MK is more premiere.
I don’t think we’re going to agree on this, we just have different ideas of what fighting games are about.
Fighting games are not just any other genre and a fighting game shouldn’t just churn out sequels because it can. Fighting games have the legacy of being the first to introduce the idea of competitive gaming, they should use this legacy and the competitive scene that already exists around series like Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur, etc. to create a modern profitable esports like it happened in other genres. They totally should try to create a viewership base with sponsorships and an economy behind it because this is how their old identities will go on in the modern age, and Capcom, Namco and ArcSys are all seemingly trying to go in this direction.
Mortal Kombat is a different beast, being born as a series that lived off shock factor and gore and then off a strong narrative and single player modes in the last years. The financial support of Warner Brothers also helps a lot giving the series a guaranteed AAA budget. NRS is in the position of not caring about their competitive scene being weak because they’re making bank anyway and because the very identity of Mortal Kombat has never been about competitive gaming anyway.
Other fighting games just shouldn’t follow Mortal Kombat’s example. They should not compromise their competitive identities to try and take on Mortal Kombat on its own territory. They should not embrace a model that’s horrible for fighting games with series and scenes being dropped off after less than two years because, even though NRS makes very good video games that do very well and sell a lot, they also make very bad fighting games that severely underperform in spite of their massive commercial success.
Guilty Gear Xrd is a game that was released in December 2014. The game, after numerous updates, it’s still being played and watched in good numbers in tournaments through all of 2018, its community still plays the game in spite of its age and its developers are supporting it by making it part of their pro tour that will go on into 2019.
Mortal Kombat X lived from 2015 to 2016, it received a bunch of DLCs and then got dropped off the earth once Injustice 2 was released.
I know what kind of scenario I’d prefer for a Street Fighter game, and it’s definitely not the second.
Quality costs money. Capcom either has no idea of what quality is or decided to take short cuts with thier money (maybe even both).
I agree with the idea that if they treated the franchise (amd its fans) with as much respect as it deserves like MH we would see a better product.
I hate the MK gameplay but I would no doubt buy the game anyway due to how polished the rest of the game is overall. Its a fun game to play even if not taken super seriously by all. Theyre obviously catering for a different type of fighting game player or fan but at least they know thier user base lol.
I agree with all the criticism for Capcom and the poor package of SFV vanilla but I believe both MK and SF has significance and advantage to each other, Yes MK has better story telling in it’s storymode and has better content, Yet SF is still along the line and up there with Tekken. It didn’t went down like other titles.