The System Mechanics Thread


#912

Isnt it good for getting out supers on the opponent? Like get within throw range and then if the normal hits, do the super? A lot of advance players I know mention that its important to learn. The only thing I dont like it is the timing of it is pretty strict and you have to execute it right everytime to uield good results.


#913

parry itself isn’t a ‘solution’ in 3S. you parry something, the situation has changed but there are so many possibilities depending on character and what was parried.
so you parry and then do close roundhouse or something (part of your sggk), oops the other guy expecting it did something and beats the roundhouse.

so really if you just paid attention, parried, waited for parry freeze, and then did stuff in response, you would be much better off than guessing using sggk. you would see what you parried specifically and know what the options are for your opponent. so you could make a guess with as much information as possible.


#914

Technically you can use SGGK outside of beating crouch tech.

Inputting SGGK for jump ins or divekicks you’ll get Kara throw for empty jump ins/divekicks OR parry + normal move coming out if you parry the divekick or jump in.

I haven’t practiced it and don’t use it. Gesu yarou told me he does that for jump ins sometimes and in a Kuroda + nuki commentary video they brought it up for an option dealing with empty or low-ankle-hitting divekicks. not sure how common it is (guessing not very commonly used) or how often people who might use it go for this. Some players like KO don’t use techniques at all or often so…


#915

that’s a really good way of using it. hadn’t thought of that situation before, that’s one where it makes a lot of sense, especially because of how tricky the spacing can be with divekicks. need to try and remember that next time i play yang/yun.


#916

Other people use it in scramble situations like if an opponent is somewhere between -1 and +1 and also in your face. It’s a time to make a quick guess I suppose.


#917

ha thats clever! funny cause i used to use crouch tech to defend against empty dive kicks. thats quite a bit better


#918

But how much time do you really have to “wait” and see the parry freeze, realize it’s a ken multi hit dragon punch and remember not to hit a button? In theory it sounds

Are we hating on it because its pretty much guessing? I know people who throw out mix up block strings, where they know it’s likely to hit if the opponent presses a button. More often than not theyre scoring free hits

A pro player Im talking to his twitter mentioned SGGK is important for higher levels. Im surprised less people are using it. Sure its an OS and semi-cheap, but it takes time to learn the input/timing.


#919

its importance is gonna be largely a matter of opinion. personally i think people who don’t play chun aren’t noticeably hindered without it.

personally i always felt kind of stupid sacrificing goukis regular kara throw range to do sggk with mk. i would use jiro demon sggk but its very difficult execution


#920

Not hating on it, just you have better options usually.
It’s pretty beast with chun though, definitely. like pherai is saying i think outside of chun it becomes less useful/impactful.

as for parry freeze, you have plenty of time to see the freeze and react.
it’s equivalent to seeing some of the overhead normals in the game.


#921

It has uses but I think how important it is is overstated. And you have to realize you are giving up other opportunities if you commit to it. Remember all you get is throw if they do nothing. You only get super if they wakeup with crouch tech or mashing low buttons.


#922

well sggk also works with high parry input. If you feel you HAVE to guess a parry and you are in range for the kara throw, you should sggk it anyway.
^
this is theory fighting, my system memory crashes when I try to implement that in real games


#923

for that one, think makoto or charge characters


#924

yeah I was thinking of something more specific than what was actually written I guess. I read SGGK but thought “SGGK w/low parry as an oki attack.” obviously that wasn’t said outright so my mistake.

but yeah I still think SGGK is this weird tidbit of game knowledge that has found it’s way to a lot of people but they don’t know how it works or what beats it. like the original post asked “should I use it after I throw someone?” and I think the answer is “maybe, but there’s probably better stuff to do.”


#925

Where the hell have you been!? Are you still on XBL?


#926

SGGK is sick. You force a 50/50 in a situation where people usually dont do anything apart from blocking or teching throws.


#927

I retired years ago; recently came back. I’m interested in getting back on the 3S horse, but I’m wary about playing online in a game with parries.


#928

How do you get Poison to come on screen when doing Hugo’s taunt in Online Edition? Obviously start just pauses the game.


#929

Up + taunt


#930

Okay, this post is about 3s juggling. So I wrote some stuff that should be mostly correct based on what I’ve messed with and read on the reference site (here: http://gr.qee.jp/01_3rd/index.html). Hopefully it makes sense.
The juggling mechanics as they’re described are not that complex, but explaining it concisely might be difficult because of how piecemeal it is. The way I see it, first separating the two major issues at play is important: Whether or not a juggle will continue vs. whether or not a juggle COMBO will continue. A continued juggle combo implies a continued juggle, but not the reverse.

In the most immediate sense, juggling (combo or no) is governed by this timer-like device called 追撃可能時間: “Time for Possible Pursuing/Following Strike” or whatever. This is the time window after each juggle hit within which the next move must connect to continue a juggle (otherwise the attack will not make contact at all). The reason juggling ability deteriorates is because with each hit this timer (henceforth “Pursuit Time”) shrinks depending on a counter called 削減値: “Reduction Value,” an indicator of how much the Pursuit Time has been “reduced” thusfar in the juggle. The higher the Reduction Value, the shorter the Pursuit Time, the more difficult further juggling becomes (less time to connect each successive attack).

The site provides the following relationship:
RV – PT (in frames)
1 – 121
2 – 101
3 – 81
4 – 61
5 – 41
6 – 21
7 – 11
8 – 5
9 – 2
10+ – 1

This Reduction Value is the “Juggle Counter” that most of the older posts in this thread make reference to. All of the attacks in 3s have associated values attached to them corresponding to how much RV is added when a player lands them in a juggle; attacks range from RV+1 (potentially “good” juggling tools like Urien’s Chariot Tackle) to RV+15 (virtually ends the juggle right away, e.g. most grounded normals), with some SA hits having RV “reset” properties (connecting with them will reset RV to 0 after which presumably any attack can continue the juggle, e.g. Yun’s attacks under SA3 or the last hit of Makoto SA2).
Starting on the order of seconds, PT for next hit shrinks quite rapidly as juggle RV increases; time windows above RV5 are halved until juggling becomes nearly impossible in practice because the successive attacks must connect within a single frame of those preceding them (no 3s character really has the capability to attack like that). Additionally, when a juggle reaches RV15, the extra condition that the next hit must be a Super Art hit to connect is imposed (at RV15 only one-frame SAs can continue a juggle).

Now, comboing. Note that the above still has nothing to do with whether or not a juggle will combo, only whether or not an attack will actually hit a juggled opponent regardless of whether or not a combo is happening.
Comboing in a juggle depends on RV/PT (naturally, if you can’t juggle at all you obviously can’t combo in a juggle) and also on what state the opponent is in. As far as juggling is concerned there seem to be only two, which the above site refers to as 吹き飛びダウン and 吹き飛び着地: “blown-away down” and “blown-away landing” (I assume that’s their term for the state after being hit in the air, the “blown/knocked flying” phrase).

  • “Down,” the state in which the juggled character “ragdolls” about in the air; player has no agency and is at the mercy of his opponent. Good term for this would be “Air-Reeling.”
  • “Landing,” The state in which the juggle character does a little rolling backflip ending in upright falling posture; player can parry but otherwise has no agency. Good term would be "Air-Reset."
    Most Supers and many specials cause Air-Reeling when hitting an already airborne character (e.g. Gouki’s fireball) and/or even hitting a grounded character (e.g. Gouki’s Tatsu). Most normals (e.g. Ryu’s… anything other than sweep) and some specials (e.g. Ryu’s fireball) cause Air-Reset when hitting an airborne opponent. More than a few sites have reasonably comprehensive information on which kind of juggle state each attack in the game causes.

Combining this airborne state with the Reduction Value/Pursuit Time dictates comboing:

  • If the juggled character is Air-Reeling and PT is not violated, the next attack will combo.
  • If the juggled character is Air-Reset and PT is not violated, the next attack will combo IF it connects before the character begins to “flip out” (i.e. the attack must combo naturally off the hitstun of the move that caused the Air-Reset, and RV/PT mechanics must allow the juggle to continue). If it does not combo off the hitstun of the Air-Resetting move, the combo is finished. Subclause: If PT is not violated and the opponent hasn’t landed, the next attack can still connect and potentially juggle further (starts a new combo) if it is a Super Art hit, though the Air-Reset character can air-parry the SA provided the player is capable of executing.
  • If the character has flipped out in air-reset state, non-SA hits will not connect even if PT hasn’t expired yet. And of course, if PT is violated at any point no further attacks will combo because they won’t even make contact (the juggle itself is done).

So that’s about it. It’s an inscrutable mess, I recognize, but I don’t think I can do any better on a straight-up explanation. I can provide more concise illustrative examples to back all this up in case anyone’s confused or curious, though.


#931

Sanchez!