Perhaps someone can attach a video of the meters that have to do with juggling. It’s a lot easier to understand that way I think.
Yeah, the writing is dense; apologies for that. I posted this above; it’s the video that accompanies the explanation on the site. The relevant mechanisms are illustrated below the 2P health bar: The number to the gauge’s left is Reduction Value while the green, draining material in the gauge is the Pursuit Time for that value.
First example is pretty standard. Yun starts the juggle with EX-nishou (two hits: RV+1 and RV+2 respectively; RV is now 3 and PT ticks down from 81 frames), then just the second hit of another EX-nishou (RV+2; RV is now 5 and PT ticks down from 41 frames), and finally both hits of yet another EX-nishou that just barely connects before the previous PT drains out (RV+1, RV+2; RV is now 8 and PT is a mere 5 frames).
The second example is more interesting. Q hits an airborne Ken with close st.Jab (RV+1) xx SA2 (RV+1, then RV+2). The Jab starts the juggle and, like most grounded normals, causes Air-Reset; however, the Jab is also one of two rare grounded normals in Q’s moveset that isn’t RV+15. So, because RV is only 1 after the Jab (and thus PT draining out to end the juggle is not an issue because it’s like 120 frames) and SA2 starts up in 2 frames (fast enough to combo off the Jab’s hitstun), the whole thing is one combo with the air-reset state caused by the jab immediately set to air-reeling again by the SA before Ken can flip out of hitstun (like he does when hit by most normals in the air).
RV becomes 4 after the whole thing and PT is 61 frames. As illustrated in the video, Q can’t connect with the attempted followup st.Fierce because PT just barely runs out.
To further explore hypotheticals with the mechanics: The above combo doesn’t work with any other normal Q has. Almost all of Q’s other normals are RV+15, so hitting an airborne opponent with them renders comboing with this super impossible (SA2 is not 1-frame startup and thus cannot connect fast enough to combo when RV is 15), and only other one that isn’t RV+15 (b+Strong, RV+1) isn’t cancellable and recovers too slowly for him to combo into super on an air-reset target.
However, with the two non-RV15 normals it’s possible to still juggle with SA2 (just can’t combo with it) after the airborne hit IF you can land the super. E.g. if you do close st.Jab earlier and link the SA2 instead of cancelling, or if you use the upper end of b+Strong when the opponent is at around max jump height and then crank the super out so it hits the air-reset opponent just before he lands on the ground. Note that in this scenario it’s possible to air-parry the SA2 if the parry is inputted properly, but if the super hits the followup st.Fierce after the SA2 will STILL whiff because RV is unchanged from before. Even though the normal didn’t combo into SA2, the juggle counter values are the same.
Eh, maybe it still reads like rambling nonsense. The example with Q is a bit too quirky to be very insightful; probably easier to see the mechanics with a character like Gouki, who uses them a lot in many of his actual juggles.
Scrubby question incoming…but when exactly do you tap down for Quick Rise? I don’t get to play much third strike on my own for practice and when I play at a friends house I can never get the hang of it…mashing it doesn’t work apparently…
Double tap down when you land on the floor.
what the? Mashing does work
a few months ago we talked about characters falling out of Chun SA2. did anyone ever figure out why this happens? I’ve only ever seen it with Chun confirming back fierce on a crouching Makoto. is that the only situation it happens or are there others?
can’t remember where it was posted now.
at first I thought yeah it’s just a weird counterpoke thing. like you catch the tip of Mak low strong with back fierce and maybe the distance is too far or something? but yesterday I caught someone guessing low with back fierce, this was point blank on top of them, and Mak still fell out of Houyoku after a few hits.
this was on arcade so it definitely happens in all versions of the game.
Sounds like maybe you linked the back fierce. You can usually see the skip on screen when you hit one of the cancels that’s going to drop them into block. So like maybe it’s on a receding frame. I remember mentioning that before in this thread. The 3s chars aren’t like the chars in other games. They breath and their breath is made apparent by a shift in their hurt boxes and push boxes.
ah yeah that’s definitely a possibility I think. it would explain why sometimes she falls out and sometimes she doesn’t. maybe in her crouching breathing pattern her hurtbox shifts in just so slightly a way that it’ll sometimes drop.
I wanna try this with the hurtboxes visible! time to go investigate FBA-RR and see if I can figure anything out.
This happens to more characters than just Mak. It happened to me on arcade when I was playing Ken (Though I can’t remember the specific conditions). Tokido told me it can happen against all the shotos. No idea why either, though.
It happens the most on Mak, the twins, and Elena. Seems to be something related to their crouching hurt reel/box causing the last hits of the first wave to miss.
B.fp only, mid-screen only, and you can prevent it from happening by doing b.fpxfbxxsa2 mid screen.
Hakkei into houyoku also doesn’t work consistently on Sean. I’ve never experienced it vs the twins or Elena.
good info everyone!
just a heads up in case anyone was curious - Makoto’s hurtboxes don’t seem to move. Isotopez checked today. obviously some characters do (breathing animation) but whether standing or crouching Makoto’s boxes don’t move at all.
is there something similar going on with the twins? its weird to me that makoto and the twins seem to be culprits here and are also the characters that you can combo RH x ducking upper on them when they are standing.
I fell out of lance’s super the other day while i was playing ken. That was the first time i’ve ever seen it happen to ken. Too bad I wasn’t blocking
Chun, oro, and ibuki also don’t seem to breath. Everyone else’s hitboxes move around.
It also seems that the breathing animations don’t have an effect on where your hitboxes are height-wise after you get hit i.e. breathing only affects where on your body you get hit (or don’t get hit).
I personally don’t late cancel hakkei vs a lot of characters anymore. Not worth the small risk
I can’t imagine it would. Once a character is hit they’re going to go into whatever appropriate hit animation.
unless part of sa2 whiffed just barely on the first possible hit meaning chun’s relative location when starting to hit would be different (since she moves forward) which might cause something odd as she continues.
Only reasonable way to explain it. Where their hurtboxes are relative to her hitboxes and at what point causes them to drop out from whatever knockback there is vs her own movement during the super.
Considering these guys thought of everything, you think maybe the way the clothes is “hiding” the characters body, in tune with the lore more rather than some arbitrary system design ( none of which exists in 3s ), you think…you know what? Nevermind.