The System Mechanics Thread


#936

what the? Mashing does work


#937

a few months ago we talked about characters falling out of Chun SA2. did anyone ever figure out why this happens? I’ve only ever seen it with Chun confirming back fierce on a crouching Makoto. is that the only situation it happens or are there others?

can’t remember where it was posted now.


#938

crouching strongs


#939

at first I thought yeah it’s just a weird counterpoke thing. like you catch the tip of Mak low strong with back fierce and maybe the distance is too far or something? but yesterday I caught someone guessing low with back fierce, this was point blank on top of them, and Mak still fell out of Houyoku after a few hits.

this was on arcade so it definitely happens in all versions of the game.


#940

Sounds like maybe you linked the back fierce. You can usually see the skip on screen when you hit one of the cancels that’s going to drop them into block. So like maybe it’s on a receding frame. I remember mentioning that before in this thread. The 3s chars aren’t like the chars in other games. They breath and their breath is made apparent by a shift in their hurt boxes and push boxes.


#941

ah yeah that’s definitely a possibility I think. it would explain why sometimes she falls out and sometimes she doesn’t. maybe in her crouching breathing pattern her hurtbox shifts in just so slightly a way that it’ll sometimes drop.

I wanna try this with the hurtboxes visible! time to go investigate FBA-RR and see if I can figure anything out.


#942

This happens to more characters than just Mak. It happened to me on arcade when I was playing Ken (Though I can’t remember the specific conditions). Tokido told me it can happen against all the shotos. No idea why either, though.


#943

It happens the most on Mak, the twins, and Elena. Seems to be something related to their crouching hurt reel/box causing the last hits of the first wave to miss.

B.fp only, mid-screen only, and you can prevent it from happening by doing b.fpxfbxxsa2 mid screen.


#944

Hakkei into houyoku also doesn’t work consistently on Sean. I’ve never experienced it vs the twins or Elena.


#945

good info everyone!

just a heads up in case anyone was curious - Makoto’s hurtboxes don’t seem to move. Isotopez checked today. obviously some characters do (breathing animation) but whether standing or crouching Makoto’s boxes don’t move at all.


#946

is there something similar going on with the twins? its weird to me that makoto and the twins seem to be culprits here and are also the characters that you can combo RH x ducking upper on them when they are standing.


#947

I fell out of lance’s super the other day while i was playing ken. That was the first time i’ve ever seen it happen to ken. Too bad I wasn’t blocking

Chun, oro, and ibuki also don’t seem to breath. Everyone else’s hitboxes move around.

It also seems that the breathing animations don’t have an effect on where your hitboxes are height-wise after you get hit i.e. breathing only affects where on your body you get hit (or don’t get hit).


#948

I personally don’t late cancel hakkei vs a lot of characters anymore. Not worth the small risk


#949

I can’t imagine it would. Once a character is hit they’re going to go into whatever appropriate hit animation.

unless part of sa2 whiffed just barely on the first possible hit meaning chun’s relative location when starting to hit would be different (since she moves forward) which might cause something odd as she continues.

Only reasonable way to explain it. Where their hurtboxes are relative to her hitboxes and at what point causes them to drop out from whatever knockback there is vs her own movement during the super.


#950

Considering these guys thought of everything, you think maybe the way the clothes is “hiding” the characters body, in tune with the lore more rather than some arbitrary system design ( none of which exists in 3s ), you think…you know what? Nevermind.


#951

you aren’t saying anything.
of course theres a ‘system design’. stamina, super meter, super, special, normal, ex, stun, parry, uoh, throw, jump, dash, etc.
that’s system design. very basic decisions about what playing the game even means. what’s the point, how do you accomplish it, how do you interact with it.

maybe what you mean is compared to some other games it is very open ended about how these elements are actually used. which i would agree with. compared to some characters in arc system works games which often have character unique meters and the like as opposed to a shared pool of options which have different values to different characters at different times.


#952

No, that’s not what I mean at all. I’ll admit I didn’t try to think about what you wrote beyond simply reading it.

I’m saying that although there is no real indication to Makoto’s hurtbox moving, at least none that you have all come up with in your very comprehensive analysis of the “available” system variables, MAYBE, there are some less explicit interactions at play that go along with making the game more of a game about a story/anime into and of itself. I recall reading somewhere that Makoto was very self-sconscious about her breasts, so much so that she tapes them down or wears a sports bra. So, Makoto wears baggy clothes, and considering that most characters move when they breath, maybe her baggy clothing is “hiding” the movement on her hurtbox. Likewise, Ibuki wears baggy clothes and it plays in to a lot of her hurtboxes and hitboxes. It’s a game, not the zero zero algorithm to human gene regeneration.


#953

Someone explain this one for me. Maybe it’s a day 1 that I just never caught onto, I don’t know, but it’s bugging me.

I was fighting a Hugo earlier with Dudley. He hit me with in air with sa3, and I bounced out. I don’t know the proper punish, but I tried dashing in and using roundhouse before he recovered, and it hit. Then I tried to combo into EX Machinegun, because why wouldn’t I do that? He was able to block it. Why?


#954

EX mgb is slow as fuck. Unless you’re running into the corner it doesn’t hit earlier. I only say running into the corner because of a recent experience on ggpo, so that might be wrong. But yeah, ex mgb is slow as fuck, and shoto cr rh is quick as balls. If you mean dudley cr rh, I don’t know what to tell you.


#955

I mean Dudley’s RH into EX MGB. It’s like, his bnb. I use it all the time. It whiffs crouching on some characters, but I don’t think Hugo is one of those characters…also, he wasn’t crouching.

I’ve noticed in training mode that sometimes stuff doesn’t combo right on stunned characters too, and have always found that odd, but it’s never been an issue in a real match. [edit] this is unrelated, Hugo was not stunned.