The Things That Differenciate Fighting Games: How Important Do You Think They Are?


#1

This probably isn’t explained in the best of ways, but you should get my drift.

Every fighting game has their own unique thing going on that makes them obviously different to any other. 3rd Strike has Parrying, Garou: MTOW has Just Defend, Marvel has the Magic Series, Alpha has the A-Concept, Guilty Gear has Roman Cancels, CvS2 has Roll Cancels, the list is endless. Do you think it’s the lack of these concepts in fighting games that’s making it hard to produce a truely “new” product?

As everyone knows, systems are being re-hashed to rediculous levels of retardedness. To me it seems to be these little concepts that make the games what they are. Probably the main reason I wasn’t atracted to CFJ. It’s just everything I’ve seen and done before except worse. Wtf’s up with that? You know what I mean?

But even with new games like Hakuto No Ken, sure it may be new, but it’s just Guilty Gear all over again. Except this time with emphasis on the Instant Kill. To me it isn’t a completely new concept. It’s good, but it isn’t anything new. Even KoFXI with its whole Dream Cancel…it’s just a Super Cancel. Except they have big bold letters on the screen saying “Dream Cancel.” It’s just all the same concepts.

Opinions? Discuss.


#2

3s was perfect imo…

every char is usable… they have the only 2 moves you need… parry and throw lol


#3

ofcourse its all the same, its what attribute they choose to magnify that sets them apart

just defend is just parrying

roman cancels are just cancels

roll cancel is a glitch so you cant really count that

dream cancels are just cancels that you do everyday in 3s

they are all things that are in most games but magnyfied to make you depend on them and feel diffrent about them, in other words they are important because a game without a technique that is top tier wont have much reason to come back to it, because it will have no soul

so you could say in a way that ken and chun is 3s’s soul :rofl: oh yeah and parrying


#4

KOF XI has new variants in the “tag” engine that we haven’t really seen in 2D before, like being able to switch characters mid - move, and tag out while you’re being hit. Even so, these features aren’t really “groundbreaking” per se.

There are a great number of things that make a 2-D fighter (or any fighter, for that matter) noticeably different. It may take someone thinking outside the box until another such game comes along. For me, really the last game that felt unique was Rumble Fish, partially because of the graphical style, but also because of the meter system and the various ways to spend meter within the engine (Impact Breaks, instant recover, etc). Before that I would say Guilty Gear X.


#5

The odd thing is that you mention rehash, but most of GGX(X) is rehashed items from other games, Air combos/magic series, just defend, guard/dizzy meter, combo breakers. They just spent a good bit of time on actually making it work well instead of just throwing it in.

What makes it hard to develop a new fighting game is that 90% of the gameplay of a fighter required there to be an arcade like setting, and it’s still never really moved past that.

In sports games you can play as your favorite RL team or players (or pretend you are them). In MMORPGs the players essentially are the game, FPS’s are fast paced, yet not that hindered by playing online. Fighters never went to that next level, they can invent super hyper air combo cancel whatevers, but that’s not the real issue, thats just companies trying to squeeze more money out of the current players, not an example of trying to get new players or ‘really’ new games.


#6

Yeah, but it’s been used so often, that it’s been standardized as a technique. You can’t discount it.


#7

That’s what I mean, it’s what makes it different to other games. It’s what makes it unique instead of compared to say, A3. Imaginary Rep

Still, this is what the hardcore gamers want. I don’t know figures, but I’d guess the amount of hardcore fighting gamers would be conciderably more than the casual fighting gamers, so all their money is in our pockets anyways. If a copany can just come up with a new system that people don’t have to re-learn and actually works, I think it would attract a lot more atention than say, making a monstrosity of a game that is MK:D/A. Casual gamers can just ignore the finer details anyways, I just think it sucks how they don’t seem to put any effort into atracting us aswell. Can it really be that hard to come up with something new?


#8

Uh… the just defend is a rip off the parry, the “magic series” of Marvel was ripped from the Vampire games underrated, the CVS roll is the SNK roll with a limitation (no backwards roll). Fighting games rip systems from other games all the time, but these games still seem to be well recieved. It seems that either originality has nothing to do with the success of a fighting game, or we as players are willing to accept whatever is given to us.


#9

if people realized EVERYTHING is a rip off of EVERYTHING

you cant make something out of nothing but you can be inspired by new variations

this is what fighting games do, it inspires us


#10

There’s this phenomenon that gets taught in psychology class wherein overweight people tend to be more picky about what kind of ice cream they eat. In studies, a skinny person will eat a moderate amount of the cheap(gross), medium and gourmet ice creams while the overweight person will pass on the cheap stuff and eat a large quantity of the high end(tasty) dessert.

You could probably draw a parallel with fighting games where the serious geek^H^H^H^Hgamer is more cognizant of these “things that differentiate fighting games” (ie: the flavor) – they’ll spend a huge amount of time with one great game while ignoring lesser games. The more casual player, however, might spend a middling amount of time playing everything that comes down the pipe.

Well, anyway, I think there were more people waiting in line at the ice cream store around the corner than there were potential entrants in a recent NYC tourney (for all the games combined, mind you) so, bullshit or no, I ain’t bringing any optimism to the table here Dash.


#11

What?! I’m sorry I thought that the things that brought new people to games was the fact that they were original (or ‘high end’ to use your arbitrary analogy), so that kind of renders your point completely useless.


#12

What does MK have that’s unique?


#13

Fatalitys, gore, different inputs, Shang Sung, a lot of stuff; although the ninjas are blatant shotos. You shouldn’t even have to ask me that question anyways.


#14

I always thought it was cool that MvC2 Strider could compete with the top 4 once he gets that Ouroboros going, otherwise he’s fairly screwed, or that Juggs or Colossus become somewhat usable with their respective “powerups” if you think that’s a solid foundation to build on.

Actually a lot of characters have uses of super meter or specials similar, a notable being Sol Badguy, or maybe Leona 2k2

I think those Dragonball Z games base just about everything on stuff like that, but every character pretty much plays exactly the same and they’re all very much alike when they “max out.” Take it a different way with better gameplay and more variety in “how” everyone plays if powered up, maybe that game’d be more fun.


#15

my thoughts exactly, i reckon it would be better that way