The TMNT Tournament Fighters (SNES) Thread: TF Revelations


#1164

I’ll be hosting a tournament in NorCal on 11/25! It’ll be on SNESmini (pad only until I find some compatible sticks), but I’ll be using CE. I’ll try to stream it, or record the matches at least!


#1165

Holy shit people still play this game. I was reading through this forum from the beginning and I went to the last page just to see if people still played it or if and when it died, but to my surprise, here I am. I just got Snes9x to play all the old fighting games of my childhood, I love the nostalgia so much. Anyways, do people play this on netplay for Snes9x? I’ve taken a liking to Wingnut and would love to improve if there’s anyone out there (though currently I suck balls).

Stay peaceful my dudes.


#1166

If you are looking to play some TMNT TF or any SNES fighter online, come check out the Discord and the TMNT TF Twitter!

http://twitter.com/tmnt_tf/

Hope to see you there! :slight_smile:


#1167

And to now see TMNT as guest on Injustice 2


#1168

Friendly reminder that the old games tourney I’m hosting at Game Center in NorCal is tomorrow afternoon. Doors open at 3pm, come check it out! If you’re going to Hadocon, stop by afterwards, we’re there till pretty late.

More info: https://www.facebook.com/events/1965467607059080/

Will also be attempting to stream at:

Follow https://twitter.com/@norcalcrabattle for updates.

TMNT:TF Starts at 5:30pm.


#1169

Please humour me and check my findings on Tournament Fighters for the Genesis. I feel like more people ought to consider these in game mechanics. Am I the only one who knows this? I can’t be right? Start the video at 14:50 where my notes begin. Please watch past it to see the ‘amplifier’ demonstrations. I hope this interests people as it does me. 14:50 - 26:56 is all I want people to understand. The remainder of my Fighter’s Uprising videos are just demonstrations of moves and not so much about application and strategy. The purpose of the series is to encourage people to want to play the game. Thank you everyone and I hope your enthusiasm stays strong. It’s helped me pull apart the previous Tournament Fighters game and I will be pulling apart the SNES TF game without getting spoiled by everyone’s findings hopefully ;p


#1170

This is the last of the TF vids. The NOTES section kicks in at 24:35 with general strategies or observations for moves whether they be normals, or special moves. I also included a quasi chart showcasing what normals are special cancellable and what special moves can even combo. I’m sure it’s nothing compared to the knowledge and wisdom acquired by veteran players but it’s meant as a general overview for newcomers if any. There are time stamps provided for each character and a demo of their normals (except I forgot Wing Nuts’ air kicks dammit). At the end of each character section, I do a demo of various situations in which their ultimate attack connects or causes chip damage. It’s handy to have a vid to just watch certain moves connect. I forgot to add the Raphael blocked power drill into throw setup and will update my notes. Enjoy. I will be moving onto Justice League Task Force (SNES / Genesis) next.


#1171

why is the new version not called “CowaUNGA” edition?


#1172

Never stopped, B. Praise be to all the dudes putting work in this game. Don’t lurk instathots, lurk these strats.

Got a local game shop that has a copy of TMNT:TF but I don’t have a CRT for the SNES. Any way to hook up a SNES to a BenQ? :rofl:


#1173

Just a reminder to anyone heading to NEC18, I’ll be holding a tournament in the casuals room featuring Championship Edition, Sailor Moon S and ClayFighter Tournament Edition. Hope to see some of you there!

Just a reminder to anyone currently looking to learn more about the game, definitely check out the SNES Fighters Discord:

@Toomnyusernae Thanks for doing a Fighters Uprising breakdown for the TF series, it was a fun watch and just like your other work I appreciate the time and effort that goes into such work. I would definitely suggest you check out BizHawk, here are a few links to get you started straight from the Discord:

BizHawk (Adds frame advance, TAS Studio and virtual joy pad to simulate modern training mode on older games)

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=49981 (Install before Pre-Reqs)

BizHawk Prerequisites
https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk-Prereqs/releases (Install Before Using BizHawk)

@Pertho There are converters out there, but the best thing to do is probably hit a few thrift stores and see what you can find. Otherwise, emulating via the SNES Mini or with Mednafen is your best bet.

@otter We’ve had some fun with the name over time, I’ll add that to the list of possible code names for revisions. :wink:


#1174

Clayfighter TE?

Oh
My
Gawd


#1175

Thanks for coming out & tuning in y’all. Here are the results:

1st Hagure
2nd SaikyoStyle
3rd Segin

4th Drewchuck
5th baco
5th Stafy
7th gravitypenguin
7th notKBF
9th JDR
9th Laban
9th Moogle Parade
9th Rekka Me Harder Iori-Chan

The rest are up on http://smash.gg/ncc …cya’ll next time!
There was also a (pretty bad lol) stream at http://twitch.tv/norcalcrabattle


#1176

Man oh man, Clay Fighter is such an odd beast. Someone said it was okay to give Bad Mr. Frosty like . . . . 10 special moves. Not interested in Tournament Edition balances though. Y’all should go read the instruction manual and the storylines. The lore is deep. For all three Clay Fighter games.


#1177

When is the next tourney?


#1178

Norcal tourney? And is tmnt tf the snes version?


#1179

You fellas do Clay Fighter 2 at all? I just finished a video tearing apart the first game (non-Tournament Edition). Just browsing the currently available move list on the net and noticed a slide special attack is missing for Ice (charge back, df + kick). Drives me insane when movelists are incomplete for old games. I wish I kept my old magazines as a kid.


#1180

@Toomnyusernae Clay Fighter 2 is not one we tend to play too often, it’s not the worst Clay Fighter game, but it’s hard to convince people to play TE much less 2. I have been doing some digging in old magazines myself lately, and I totally agree about getting rid of my old magazines, huge regrets on that choice.

Thanks to everyone who made it out for NEC! We’ll be doing another event at MAGFest 2018 this Saturday at 2 PM!


#1181

If you don’t know who I am, that’s fine. I’m a very active member on the SNES Discord that has devoted a few hundred hours labbing for the sake of knowledge and science. I’ve documented several nuances within the game and managed to answer most of the questions the community had during the re-boom of the competitive community. I am certainly not among the best, though I do think I am one of the most knowledgeable.

Now I won’t go over too much in terms of characters here, but I do want to point out mechanics that are worth tweaking. While not everything present is found by me, my suggestions are my opinion and do not reflect anybody else’s.

Two ideas presented for balance were “Throw Armor” and “Dizzy Armor”. A lot of this was due to how redizzies and throwing people out of stun seem common. After enough testing, I feel that most issues surrounding this can be fixed through balance changes instead of adding mechanics.
The first hit when dizzied doesn’t add to stun, which works well enough for this game given how most dizzy combos start with a jump-in. It’s not perfect, but it’s enough to stop redizzies outside of Ultimate Attacks. Playing on higher speeds increases the potential of any TOD as dizzy recovers 1 point per frame on all speeds. There are more consistent aspects between speeds, but I won’t go over them here.
Redizzies from Chrome Dome and Michelangelo are situational. Chrome Dome’s is the result of a bug that needs to be fixed on his opponents’ end. Mikey’s redizzy only works on half the roster, and I know how to nerf it while keeping most of its power when it’s fixed to work on everybody.
I also tested the window for throws during blockstun, and it happens to be only possible while the opponent is shaking (11 frames on light, so 2~4-frame window from aerials). While not everybody benefits equally, taking this out would hurt Chrome Dome’s offense more than necessary.

Extended blockstun is quite counterintuitive to me. Half the point of blocking is to find openings and counterattack. The are three extra frames of blockstun on HS1. It proves deadly for characters like Armaggon and Raph. We can make it match hitstun, or pne frame less. My goal here isn’t to reward every block with a punish, but defense should be rewarded.
There’s also a hitstun issue. On normal speed and HS3, P1 hitting P2 grants one more frame of hitstun than the other way around. It’s side-dependent. HS1 and HS2 fixed this, but used the shorter hitstun. It can be extended one frame to match the longer hitstun and open the game up a bit. Anything with a startup of 6 frames or less becomes chainable from lights. Thanks to my frame data, we’ll already know which buttons will combo from this and balance the game from there.

The War Zone is a term I made to describe the expanded area for close normals to have them work on War. This causes them to whiff in certain spots if not fighting War, and makes using far lights harder than usual. The turtles are the only fighters unchanged, making their close lights not work when fighting him. The problem seems to be that distance checked is based on a character’s center and not how far out they are. His expanded area also makes less combos work on him. Enigami’s idea is to create a variable to change the proximity required depending on who you’re fighting. The range difference is 3~5 pixels give or take.

Negative edge is rather pointless in this game. Having only four buttons it doesn’t have as many uses as it did in SF2. Here, it gets in the way of combos with special moves that overlap. A typical player using Shredder could charge back, press kick, and then try to press forward and punch, but instead of Aura Crusher, Knee Crush comes out. My ideal solution would be to disable release check during hitpause, but I’d have no objections to removing it altogether. The only problem is that a bug in the DP motion that actually helps shoto-styled characters out. Holding any button disables DP motions because its release check wasn’t properly programmed.

Fixing lag won’t be easy. Perhaps decompressing color-change code may help, but the real problem comes from specials themselves: they randomly generate lag; most certainly the first time it’s loaded. Color-changing doesn’t directly lag, but busy stages will lag worse WHEN lag happens. Larger stages (including Noh Stage) also cause lag. I’ve not been able to exactly figure out how or why, but it always happens when the camera scrolls. My main theory is object loading, though jumping through the stage generates less lag on average. If there’s a way to remove lag from special moves, then we likely don’t need to worry about color-changing lag.
If you want a consistent example on how to lag the game, play with Leo on Thunder Dome, throw the opponent backwards, and do Endless Screw. How long it takes before he says “Endless Screw” is how long the game lags.

The last tweak is on the P1/P2 camera differences. P2 is at a disadvantage as they can’t walk back as far before the camera stops scrolling. It is player-dependent: player 2, regardless of what side they are on, will always have this issue. It causes a jumpy camera when two players close in compared to other fighters.


#1182

Impressive research and suggestions there.

What about unblockable normals?

EDIT: Also what could be done on the turtles backflip lenience input? Specially Raph, in wich I sometimes go from downback to bqck to start a fireball and get an accidental backflip?


#1183

As someone that believes in consistency, I feel it needs to be fixed. It’s a bug that only happens to three characters, for one frame, in a very specific state (crouch block). They are an avenue not yet fully explored in the meta (to my knowledge at least), but with everybody’s ability to reverse out of this I don’t really see this being a viable weakness. Aska doesn’t deserve it at all, though she has the easiest reversal. It, however, brings in new possibilities against Shredder and Armaggon The latter is the only character that has 30 frames of charge, and thus the fastest charger. If you don’t open him up by the second or third hit you’re going to eat a knockdown. Shredder doesn’t need to crouch to charge, so he can reverse faster. Armaggon is bound to get nerfed if the rebalancing does happen, so imho I don’t see a need for this to stay.

Edit:
The input system is very different. Turtles have a weird diagonal leniency because their QC motions don’t need one. I feel your pain as a Leo main as I try practicing walking back then do Endless Screw. The first input can always be held as long as possible. To do backflips, it’s release back, then press back again within 2-12 frames. I definitely want backflips to work as proper double taps, but something about storing special moves really adds to the feel of the game. Give DPs the proper motion instead of FDF and I think that we’d be set.