The TMNT Tournament Fighters (SNES) Thread: TF Revelations


#961

Uhm, kinda’ hard to compare this to the old NES TMNT game. Firstly they’re of two entirely different genres and secondly one holds up pretty well today whereas the NES game certainly does not.

Back on topic: played this offline (online is not an option right now) and even though it was single player the A.I. played a little like a human so I was able to figure out some of the basics. I was using Shredder at first and he seems to get lamed out really bad and lacks good jump ins. Seems like you have to hope they jump in and AA them or rely on his sweep. This is a first impression though. I really took to Chrome Dome which is no surprise to me because I LOVE hybrid grappler characters. And while he doesn’t win the fireball war being able to cancel into it is a good blockstring. Really good command grab too. Really bizarre amalgam of characters with Chrome Dome. He has some of Sim’s normals, he has a dive kick that only works when he’s neutral, he has Terry Bogard’s fireball, and a 360. Can he punish Ralph’s psychocrusher on block with his 360?

Who is better? Chrome Dome or Rat King? Because when I made it to the boss I was surprised to see another grappler character and at first glance he seems pretty good.


#962

Ratking. No question. The bosses in this game are banned for good reason. They are broken.

Ratking j.hk goes half screen super fast, does chip, and if it hits deep enough there’s no push back so he can tick throw. Oh, and rat bomber command grab does almost 50% and CAN GRAB YOU OUT OF BLOCK STUN. So basically Ratking = you block you die + he has that stupid j.hk.

skip to 2:27 for the brokeness.


#963

I went to the page and tried to see if there were any TF macthes. I didn’t find it so I assumed you were talking about our match. I ordered a new stick yesterday(the good ole Hori-EX2 finally shat out), it should be getting here by the 17th so I should be good for some games.


#964

Jump jab is Shredders go to jumpin. He has Moron Crusher to get through projectiles and reflect as well. Crusher is your go to with him in general, it chips, is invincible, can be used to start or end frame traps. It’s just a monster of a move. playing “dumber” with Shredder is generally the way to go than playing “smart” because crusher is just that good.

I think Chrome definitely wins the fireball game vs. Leo. Like straight up matching projectile for projectile no, but Leo’s hurtbox extends pretty far forward during fireball startup and jf.hk does a huge amount of work to keep him honest, while if you guess jump and he didn’t throw a fireball j.hp generally trades with his DP. If you end up landing a jf.hk to sweep over a fireball Leo is in horrible shape because he has a pretty good chance to lose on the next mixup, so he’s forced to play a more footsie based game which Chrome wins at anyways. Don is somewhat similar but you need to respect st.hp.

Mike is kind of meh, but not terrible. You don’t want to guess jump as much and you can’t really match fireballs so it leads to lots of projectile trades. Bit of guesswork here though because I don’t have a lot of exp in the matchup and it’s mostly just me playing both characters.

Raph/Arm it’s basically impossible to keep up with them in neutral so I just try to rtsd. Neutral jumping over fireballs and divekicking like you would against don or leo is also just asking to be aa’d here too which makes it even worse. Trying to force non neutral situations against both is important.

rat king most def as he’s in that banned tier.

I think Chrome’s matchups basically go

War - heavy advantage
Aska/Leo/Don - advantage
Shredder - Even
Raph/Arm - heavy disadvantage

Mike/Wingnut it’s tough for me to call because I have the least experience fighting those two characters, but I play both. I would say Mike is evenish and Wingnut is in Chrome’s favor. Mike doesn’t have the lockdown tools that Raph does while also having worse normals for the matchup so he’s a bit easier to land the unblockable on but you have to work roughly as hard in neutral, but you don’t get blown up by drills as easily and it’s a little easier to escape the corner.

Wingnut not having a reversal basically means that knockdowns are death. Off of lp throw, or sweep if you’re close to the corner(or EPD in the corner) you can setup an option select EPD loop with j.hp to sweep(cancel os to EPD), with the following results

If jumpin and sweeped blocked EPD comes out leading to a safejump j.hp(just hold up forward) to the same situation
If sweep lands you react to it and do a manually timed safejump divekick to sweep and cycle it

In neutral wingnut generally relies on Moonbuster and Glide Punch to control space but both aren’t too effective vs. Chrome. Chrome jumps much faster than Wingnut and j.hk will blow up jump startups and put wingnut in a terrible situations if it is blocked, and wingnut’s poor anti airs just don’t work too well on Chrome’s jumping normals. Wingnut has to rush down and while Chrome has trouble defending iad stuff, thats all wingnut has going for him.

Chrome’s biggest problem is Raph/Arm being the two best characters in the game while being his worst matchups. I just pick Mike vs. Arm and Don vs. Raph though, the best part about this game is that it’s really easy to pick up a new character.


#965

Yeah, I should have corrected my post. Rat King is so broken.

So Chrome Dome can’t punish Ralpha’s Psycho Crusher or Arm’s Shark Dive at all? It looks like you can punish with his command grab.


#966

@jedpossum, love that dedication!


#967

This is not necessarily a good or even “okay” thing for CD though since he is forced to take a down while Leo lands in a neutral position giving him advantage and the option to pace the match with projectiles. Also LP DP kind of hurts on trade lol. Finally, what do you know about LP Shine Cutter AA? This is actually a legitimate (and overlooked) anti-air option for him which does far more stun than DP (two will stun iirc). Just more crap you have to look out for as CD in this match up.

Can you elaborate on this?

Don’t quite agree with Aska and Don being advantage for CD. Aska has decent pokes to fend off CD (far st.HK, cr.HK, Dat Ass, st.LP) and iirc (it’s been too long, seriously) Dat Ass/Hip Check can hop over his projectile to close in for dice roll pressure (spin/dp shenanigans). CD’s floaty jump will certainly get shut down by HP DPs so he’d have to focus more on a neutral poking game which I feel he goes even with Aska in. Aska can’t necessarily jump in for free either as she has really weak jump ins which are thwarted easily by b+HP or Chrome Spark. Also CD can keep random hip checks in check with far st.HP and neutral jump attacks and dives from a safe distance. Unless there was something I missed, I feel that this match up is even.

Mike’s fireball rhythm and pacing isn’t that far off from Raphs and he’s able to “lockdown” CD, in a sense, with Dragon Breath if he gets the right positioning. Mike also has solid AA tools for when he’s not charged for Rising Thunder too so CD reacting to or reading fireballs with jump-ins wont necessarily get results. Far st.HP can stuff far jumpins and neutral jump dive kicks while cr.HP will either stuff or trade against jumpins at closer ranges, both resulting in CD getting knocked back to a range where Mike can start spamming again.

What?! Moonbuster is actually really annoying to deal with as CD due to floaty jump and wider hitbox during jump AND slower walk speed makes it hard to evade on the ground. Yes it’s true that you’ll be using j.HK to snipe Wingnut out of the air but he actually has tools like j. neutral LK (and HK) to keep CD down. Neutral j.LK in particular is really strong in that it has insanely fast start up and stays out for the entire duration of the jump. Yes, the damage is very weak but it effectively does the job of keeping CD out where Wingnut can establish fireball game again and make CD work to get back in. There’s also the option of waiting for CD’s j.HK to whiff, walk under and close st.LP or st.HP AA to punish (this should be done rarely though as this leaves Wingnut open for cr.HK’s later). If CD is then discouraged from jumping, the match turns in Wingnuts favor because he can continue to pace the match with fireballs or worse, start closing in with HK dives.

I think the main reason Wingnut is my favorite and best character is that he doesn’t HAVE TO rush down to be effective. A good/smart player will utilize all of his tools and alternate between aggressive and lame play when the situations occur. I feel this match is also even because if either character gets backed into the corner, for whatever reason, they have a horrible time dealing with pressure that follows. Also, while Wingnut’s fireball is effective for pacing the match, a patient CD player can take time and walk in and guard to close ground safely, so the neutral game isn’t significantly bad on either end.

EDIT:
CD v Don
Going to say Don’s favor for this match up. St.HP is just too much to deal with and trades in Don’s favor when it comes to stun damage. Jumping in is tough, CD has to again deal with st.HP and Head Spin as AA options. Don’s fireball is probably the worst in the game but safe at full screen. He can scout for CD’s full screen jumps over Ground Claws and bat him out of the air with, again, st.HP. Also, Head Spin wakeup game (yes, Don can establish mind games on YOUR wake up with this) is tough to deal with. This is a slow match for CD, I feel. Slight advantage Don imo

RatKing
While this character is pretty “broken”, I feel there should be more experimenting done with match ups vs him. I think some characters (like aska) would be able to go nuts on him and possibly stand a chance. Karai, on the other hand, is w/o question untouchable.

@jedpossum
good stuff as usual. Any chance we’ll see hitbox scripts?

I like these posts :smiley:


#968

So, Shredder’s Aura Crusher has a lot of start up invincibility but it still seems risky at midscreen. It looks like he can get poked out. Is his standing HK a good AA or a better footsie?

Can CD punish Ralph’s Psycho Crusher on block if he lands right next to you? Same goes for Arm’s Drill Kick Shark Dive thing.

Too bad we can’t get SNES games on GGPO, eh?


#969

Bug Ponder to make it happen. :stuck_out_tongue:


#970

If you follow the netplay guide you can get pretty good netplay still.

Zar I’ll take a look at your post more in depth later. One thing though I agree that Wingnut doesn’t have to rush down in general, I feel like neutral situations can be converted into way more momentum for Chrome than they can for Wingnut.


#971

Is it safe to call WingNut the Rufus of this game?


#972

Rufus relies on his divekick and multitude of ways to combo into ultra to win, while mixing in long range footsie options.

Wingnut actually has overall more rushdown options than rufus, more diverse setups, but worse defense. Wingnut corner/wakeup defense is just putrid with his slow jump and no reversal.

They are pretty distinctly different characters.


#973

Okay so I’m headed to evo and should be there from wed/thursday to monday. Does anyone want to get some games in?

I’m kind of rusty, but I’d like to play this if anyone else would.


#974

#975

Desk the biggest biter of all time. Gave no credit to all the stuff Veserius found.

yeah, fuck it. HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE. That combo video is like TL;DR of the thread.


#976

Although it’s probable, there’s no way to really tell if he did in fact refer to this thread and veserius’s discoveries as source material. If he did, however, refer to the material here and didn’t accredit the founders…then I’d be pretty pissed/saddened. No way to really tell unless you straight up asked him.

Wasn’t a big fan of default speed setting for this exhibition and yeah, it’s really is like a TL;DR of the thread lol. The whole vid I was pretty much like “…Ok…uh-huh…Ok…yup…nods” waiting for something outrageous to happen. But hey, at least TF gets another 15mins of shine before fading back into obscurity/childhood memories.


#977

This trace deals with the collision then math of an attack. So if someone wants to work on hitboxes.
Since, I have quite a few other things to do.

Spoiler


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858de7 sta $18,x     [000f78] A:0030 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:245 H: 698
858de9 ldy $58,x     [000fb8] A:0030 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:245 H: 732
858deb sty $58       [000058] A:0030 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:245 H: 766
858ded jsr $8d34     [858d34] A:0030 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:245 H: 794
858d34 lda $62,x     [000fc2] A:0030 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1ddf D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:245 H: 834
858d36 bit #$0010             A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1ddf D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H: 868
858d39 beq $8d3d     [858d3d] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1ddf D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H: 886
858d3d rts                    A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1ddf D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H: 904
858df0 stz $80,x     [000fe0] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H: 944
858df2 stz $62,x     [000fc2] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H: 978
858df4 stz $d4,x     [001034] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H:1012
858df6 jsl $85e7b6   [85e7b6] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H:1046
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85e7bb sta $62,x     [000fc2] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H:1152
85e7bd rtl                    A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H:1186
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85e7ce lda $62,x     [000fc2] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H:1282
85e7d0 ora #$0080             A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:245 H:1316
85e7d3 sta $62,x     [000fc2] A:0080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:245 H:1334
85e7d5 rtl                    A:0080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:   4
858dfe jsl $85e7de   [85e7de] A:0080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:  46
85e7de lda $62,x     [000fc2] A:0080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 100
85e7e0 ora #$8000             A:0080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 134
85e7e3 sta $62,x     [000fc2] A:8080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 NvmxdizC V:246 H: 152
85e7e5 rtl                    A:8080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 NvmxdizC V:246 H: 186
858e02 lda $64,x     [000fc4] A:8080 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 NvmxdizC V:246 H: 228
858e04 sta $10       [000010] A:005a X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 262
858e06 jsl $85e7fe   [85e7fe] A:005a X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 290
85e7fe lda $70       [000070] A:005a X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 344
85e800 cmp #$001e             A:000b X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 372
85e803 beq $e835     [85e835] A:000b X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 Nvmxdizc V:246 H: 390
85e805 lda $00aa     [8100aa] A:000b X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 Nvmxdizc V:246 H: 402
85e808 bne $e835     [85e835] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZc V:246 H: 436
85e80a lda $00a4     [8100a4] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZc V:246 H: 448
85e80d bne $e835     [85e835] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZc V:246 H: 482
85e80f ldy $64,x     [000fc4] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:0e80 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZc V:246 H: 494
85e811 cpy #$0018             A:0000 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizc V:246 H: 528
85e814 bcs $e823     [85e823] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 586
85e823 lda $30,x     [000f90] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 604
85e825 clc                    A:0006 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 638
85e826 adc #$0018             A:0006 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizc V:246 H: 650
85e829 sec                    A:001e X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizc V:246 H: 668
85e82a sbc $64,x     [000fc4] A:001e X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 680
85e82c bpl $e836     [85e836] A:ffc4 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 Nvmxdizc V:246 H: 714
85e82e lda $64,x     [000fc4] A:ffc4 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 Nvmxdizc V:246 H: 726
85e830 sec                    A:005a X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizc V:246 H: 760
85e831 sbc $30,x     [000f90] A:005a X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 772
85e833 sta $64,x     [000fc4] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 806
85e835 rtl                    A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 840
858e0a jsl $8381dc   [8381dc] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 882
8381dc lda $86       [000086] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H: 936
8381de cmp #$0000             A:0000 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:246 H: 964
8381e1 bne $8208     [838208] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:246 H: 982
8381e3 lda $64,x     [000fc4] A:0000 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdiZC V:246 H: 994
8381e5 bpl $8208     [838208] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1028
838208 rtl                    A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1046
858e0e jsl $83acd8   [83acd8] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1de1 D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1088
83acd8 lda $64,x     [000fc4] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1142
83acda bpl $acdf     [83acdf] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1176
83acdf jsr $ad11     [83ad11] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1194
83ad11 ldy #$1aa0             A:0054 X:0f60 Y:005a S:1ddc D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1234
83ad14 cpx #$0e80             A:0054 X:0f60 Y:1aa0 S:1ddc D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1252
83ad17 beq $ad1c     [83ad1c] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:1aa0 S:1ddc D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1270
83ad19 ldy #$1af0             A:0054 X:0f60 Y:1aa0 S:1ddc D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1282
83ad1c rts                    A:0054 X:0f60 Y:1af0 S:1ddc D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1300
83ace2 sta $000e,y   [811afe] A:0054 X:0f60 Y:1af0 S:1dde D:0000 DB:81 nvmxdizC V:246 H:1340


Edit:
In case, someone is serious about it.
Lua script for x,y positions on the players



axis_length = 4
--Player 1
p1x = memory.readbyte(0x7e0e88)
p1y = memory.readbyte(0x7e0e8c) + memory.readbytesigned(0x7e0e90)

gui.text(50,48,p1x .. "," .. p1y)

gui.drawline(p1x,p1y+axis_length,p1x,p1y-axis_length)
gui.drawline(p1x+axis_length,p1y,p1x-axis_length,p1y)

--PLAYER 2
p2x = memory.readbyte(0x7e0f68)
p2y = memory.readbyte(0x7e0F6c) + memory.readbytesigned(0x7e0f70)

gui.text(160,48,p2x .. "," .. p2y)

gui.drawline(p2x,p2y+axis_length,p2x,p2y-axis_length)
gui.drawline(p2x+axis_length,p2y,p2x-axis_length,p2y)



#978

horrible hotel, didn’t get out of pools, didn’t win any money in MMs, vegas is terrible in general, my phone is fucked up, I got stranded for 3.x hous in a random terminal, and desk stole tech from me.

MY EVO WEEKEND AND I DIDN’T EVEN GET TO PLAY TF WITH ANYONE :frowning:


#979

euaeouaoe

haha wow really? or is there a troll somewhere that I missed? he happen to consult you recently with questions about TF? Kinda sucks if he did skim through the thread for material and didn’t shout people out.

sorry about not getting in games. trip out there from EC is way to damn expensive for me but perhaps the stars will align one day and we’ll get in a once-in-a-millennium session…


#980

I mean in the context of him reading this thread and just cherry picking shit.

People at evo talking about gdlk tmnt tech from DESK THE GOD that I came up with and I’m just like =/