I have far bigger problem with Poison than Sakura. She was literally in the lowest tier of Mad Gear. A low tier foot soldier. Her showing up and chucking plasma is a far bigger offense. Sodom, Rolento and Abigail were boss characters. Hugo is a super sized version of their strongest foot soldier. Poison isn’t getting up at the break of dawn training like there is no tomorrow. How did she get so strong? I remember @DarthEnder2 having the same issue with Poison’s addition.
Poison was just supposed to be a crossover character to begin with we all know that they just salvage her from SFXT. The other game she was in was in FFR which is more on weapons and the game supposed was CFA where she didn’t have plasma as well.
I remember doing a breakdown and analysis of her CFA move-set in the previous storythread.
The only pass for Poison during SF4 is for her having no encounter and conflict against legit street fighters.
Edit: found it still no idea what Secret Desire is?
I know many like Sakura and nothing will change it, but still complete joke char to me… the whole prodigy “talent” thing is just because one day they woke up wanting schoolgirl-Ryu without much excuse for it… prior or contemporary concepts were very different, all got a bit of reason they were girls able to fight vs world strongest men (wich enriched theyr concept)
For Poison as fighter you can say
she/he’s adult criminal in a super violent gang, who likely passed years fighting in the streets
she showed acrobatic skills compared to regular goons
being a tranny got male strenght lol
looking weak next to Cody/Guy/Haggar does’nt say much as all three are VERY strong even for SF standards
Compared to FF day in SF4 she use as weapon, wich imply she will likely not be “SF level” without it
they never try hard to hype up his/her power as something relevant, as far we know she can be easily the weakest of the game, even below Dan
She just got same power-up in relevance that Hugo got, back to FFR both her and Delgado (Hugo just was in SF3) were “promoted” as villains on par of bosses**
by the time of SF4 she seem into wrestling from a while, in her intro she even destroy two Alex-size wrestlers*, actually back in FFR ('99) they already gave him/her wrestling moves
I don’t like much Poison, for the very same reason of you: he/she to not belong between world’s best fighters as a challenger, the feel is “Bitch pls, at least try to become FF boss tier before”
But ever for that reasoning i accept Poison waaay more than sakura
At least SF4 Poison seem to have some build up to be the lowest lowest tier, but still in, of that game
Makoto was done right, Sean was done right, sakura was an error imho
PS: the pink fireball was something she got from FFR… still weird lol
Poison >>>> Sakura any day of the week
Her membership in Mad Gear is a negative because she is the weakest member in the entire gang. Hugo and Andore are not the same person. So her “getting the same power up as Hugo” makes zero sense. Here is the Mad Gear Tier list from FF1 top to bottom. At work on my phone, so I may miss a few.
- Edi E
- Fat Guy Tier (Bull?)
- Axl and Slash
- El Gado and Hollywood
- Two P tier
- Bred tier
- Poison and Roxy
- Molotov Cocktail Hollywood and El Gado
She isn’t even elite among the Mad Gear scrubs, only the Molotov cocktail guys are weaker if you count the. She is literaly the random thug that gets bopped by the hero with zero effort in your typic kung fu film. Even Sean and Dan would come in around 7 or 8.
Nothing says people can’t move past tiers. Like I said in my post, she seems really focused on wrestling and getting her own league going. Her ambition may have increased due to getting walloped by Cody and being pissed that 1.) No more Mad Gear, so she’s gonna have to try something else to make a living 2.) She, being so weak, got humiliated badly by Cody when under Mad Gear, no one would ever get in her face.
In universe, Final Fight was in the 80s before the sliding time scale, SF4 takes place in the mid 90s (96? 97?) SF III takes place in 98/99. That’s years and years of stuff that she could have changed up since then.
The real reason is the devs liked her design and thought let’s get another hot character in game, in universe is whatever they want, really. We haven’t been shown how she matches up against anyone else, she could be below Dan but evens things out with the riding crop ki-dispersal and dirty tricks.
Also, when I say training, it doesn’t have to be Ryu style going to the mountains. She could have gone hardcore wrestle nerd and asked Hugo to give her tips, tried out different things.
It’s not from from FFR the projectile was totally different, and Capcom had different perception regarding Poison movesets comparing it from FFR to USF4 and even CFA.
The only thing that was similar to each other was the color being PINK. If you would take a look more closer in the overall with the poison FFR to SFXT they were different. FFR as a reminder was develop by a defunct studio(Studio 8) not Capcom in Japan.
Even most of the fighter was envisioned differently that includes HUGO, Cody and Guy, because those were designed by a differently and SF4 team along with the modern design team that is with SFXT didn’t take cues on it for there modern interpretation on SF4.
The projectile thing was just because she was imported from SFXT which is a crossover game.
For Capcom to fix this they should remove the plasma special, since Ki manipulation isn’t her thing, even the likes of Guy didn’t have some sort of projectile. His FF3 attack with fire never made it.
Quoting old post here in discourse is really terrible, that the videos needs to be outside the quotes.
I’m not saying she can’t move up tiers. She most certainly can. It is just that her post Mad Gear life seems to focus on managing wrestlers. I have nothing against Poison as character. I find her more interesting than Sakura. Setting feelings aside her in universe power increase, from a narrative standpoint, is weak. That doesn’t preclude them from repeating what they did with Sakura. Adding in something that shows why shes gotten so strong. Doesn’t nees to be elaborate. It could just be her in the ring training with Yoko Harmegeddon or Black Widow for example.
It wasn’t really a “fireball” she was throwing as if you look closely she’s actually throwing a pair of her handcuffs that she has hanging off of her hips. The handcuffs are coated with a pink energy which i can assume is ki but even so it doesn’t make sense for her to be able to manipulate such an energy. The fact that ki manipulation is something that not even the Mad Gear bosses can even do just shows she’s really not deserving of it. Her fighting style is based on dirty street fighting like Cody’s so it would only make sense that being that she was a low tier MG member she would use more dirty tactics incorporated into her style. Which is why I brought up the use of the Molotovs as they could’ve been a different type of projectile then what were used to seeing. It could’ve been thrown at different arcs like Sim’s Yoga Fire in SFV and the EX version could’ve spread a carpet of flame like Sim’s VT1.
Yet all other points stands, and even in the ranking thing they already promoted her as above normal minions, back to FFR (likely because they wanted a “female” char)
If you ask them to do same ranking by FFR time (or SF4 time) Poison will of course ranks higher than most not-bosses
Also agree with Poison being weaker than Dan and Sean, both have much more legit background, even being joke chars
Wich is exactly the point… life-long criminal tranny heavy into wrestling and street fights, even armed with a weapon was probably the weakest of the weakest, if put into the SF level
I can think much better fighter characters to get a SF slot, but sound just as articulated justification like they did for other characters
Sakura literally was a skinny schoolgirl that at some point became SF level (and not even in as the weakest) because “talent”
Why sound some bs to justify schoolgirl-Ryu to be in?
Reality is sakura was included just to please some kind of demographic that love that stuff, i don’t see much point try harder searching truths beyond that… they did’nt either, wich is why they did’nt even bothered build up a story lol
Wich they can, as it’s theyr game… but there’s no doubt was atypical, as they built a “legit” explanation for every other contender, while being honest sakura’s whole concept is being an “anime schoolgirl who can throw hados and srks lololol” for an audience that like (and by default accept) it
Wich is why i said still weird, she should not have ki control neither in FFR or SF4 lol, just pointed there was where they got the pink ki idea
On general FFR gave characters power/moves that does’nt seem even canon, example Cody got a fire punch and shit like that lol
I agree, as i said they should have pushed on that kind of stuff rather than pretend she’s SF level with ki-powered specials and shit
As said the way to make him/her dangerous was Dampierre’s way lol
Not every thug in SF universe makes them automatically relevant
Being Male doesn’t make you up high in SF universe. Gender and Sexuality doesn’t change advantage in the mythos. There are female that are stronger than males in the mythos.
The thing is Poison isn’t Dampierre in personality and craftiness. Even in style of fighting Poison is already establish multiple times in various games, Dampierre’s craftiness and mischievousness is far from Poison’s mythos. Poison is more of a show off and f*ck it, I got Hugo or weapon rather than pulling creative ways to attack.
All Capcom should do is like what others mention just include of her having training for wresting in future bio. That’s the only thing that would fit Poison improve and progress in wrestling than radically change her to something inappropriate to her later character development. Wrestling works with her along with Hugo as a tandem as she progress in the story without complication.
IIRC, Final Fight Revenge isn’t canon. I wish it were simply because Cody being imprisoned actually made sense. Wasn’t screwed over by dirty cops?
Side Note: These type of exchanges are what I like about this thread. Feels nice to post something besides gifs and snarky one liners.
Yes it was’nt, but still it can show theyr will to work on this or that char, showing eventually some good ideas that will recycle in future… in this case for good or for bad elements of SFxT/SF4 Poison are born there
I also liked how they reimagined El Gado, the whole shady sneaky grappler who break bones new element really suited him imho
Yeah, let’s say that some endings were cool and will enrich… like showing Cody arrested
On other hand you got stuff like Guy ending up doing meditation to not become zombie-Guy because zombie-Belger infected him LOL
More than canonize the entire game more wise should be just pick the good parts
As reminder also the defunct Studio 8 is also the developer of FF Street Wise and the cancelled Final Fight Seven Sons which you take control as Dean.
All of those titles were also never considered canon same as the game were Poison was played like CFA. Poison in FFR has nothing to do with the rest of incarnation from both SFXT and CFA.
Nowadays FF would benefits as to play like Dynasty Warrior in modern times or a Battle Royale set in Metro City.
I know Dead Rising get’s it mostly especially with the Super Ultra Dead Rising EX+a but FF needs to return. Even Double Dragon made a decent comeback.
It would have been interesting arcade game than a console game and if was release not farther than 2003.
Ah I get your point, yeah, the lore nerd in me would appreciate something like that.
Heh agreed. Exchanges of ideas is welcome, even if we’re not all agreeing on something it’s nice to see where we’re coming from.
Yeah, I can agree on that. Take some of the cool stuff, leave the Zombies in the ground to rot, we don’t need that hah.
A few things…
One: The violence against women retcon is entirely accurate. My college teacher was one of the localizers for Final Fight and was one of the guys sending back info to Capcom Japan. Poison and Roxy were chicks. When they said “We can’t have violence towards women in the game” the info came back that “Oh she’s a new half then” (ie: Poison/Roxy sprite represented a mtf transsexual) and the localization team was like “Uh yeah NO, this isn’t about lore, it’s about optics of punching women in the face”. That’s when CAPJ responded with “Not women” in reference to Poison & Roxy. Deciding that CAPJ just wouldn’t get it, they went ahead and made the changes necessary.
Two: I find it hilarious that you’re calling Japan “ahead of the game” with LGBTQ rights when their answer to “You can’t hit women” was to make the characters (apparently) totally physically abusable MTF transsexuals. WOW! So progressive! Isn’t a big complaint from the trans-community related to trivialization of violence against them? Oh also, they were so “way ahead” that they eliminated “women” in the game by making Poison/Roxy “Not women” by calling them trans. Isn’t that another sticking point about identity?
You must be talking about the 1991 SNES version because scenario does not fit the 1989 arcade release nor doesn’t it account Akiman’s preliminary character sketches having “new half” on them. Concept art comes before development even starts.
Not mention there were no changes made to the arcade game. Damnd’s shows a half naked Jessica to Haggar in the intro. SNES version she wears a dress. When Haggar asks “What have you done to her”. Damnd response is and I’m paraphrasing “Nothing yet, but we’d like the chance” When you punch Poison and Roxy their shirts fly up and you can see their boobs. SNES version changed their sprites to guys (Billy and Sid I think.) Even the “uncensored” Sega CD release lengthened their shirts, to hide this.
Side note: I always found it hilarous that you see Poison and Roxy’s boobs every time you throw a jab, but then they didn’t show Cody and Jessica kiss in the ending and just imply it.
I don’t think they created Poison to have “some feminine people who they could beat”. Japan is simply significatively less ‘bugged’ than Americans by feminine/androgynous/borderline transvestite/transsexual characters. They have a liking for that.
As long as you don’t tackle the real life issues of that.
Are they “ahead of the game”? I would say ‘kind of’. But also they’re big hypocrites. Japanese kids get familiar very quickly with the idea of “feminine-styled men”, but only in fiction/as a fantasy. They’re a taboo topic in reality and they’re mostly ostracized from society.
Yes, this is specifically talking about the SNES version. And that’s referring to the fact that they were considered to be women. Nothing was specified otherwise to the localization team otherwise until they pointed out the whole “punching women in the face” and then it was “Oh it’s fine to hit them, they’re not really women”
Unsurprisingly, that didn’t play either way.