The Ultra Inevitable Street Fighter V Story Thread


#924

Canon motivations mean little in his case, Guile concept incarnate so much hollywood’s 80s Merica

He’s Top Gun x Commando on a mission to punch a foreign dictator in the face, and this time it’s personal!
immagine

Even the motivation being personal is’nt contrary to this

Zangief as a good commie does things for mother Russia, because be driven by selfish reason it’s not good comrade

Guile express individualism and join same adventure for personal reason, just like 90% of american action movies back then lol
Nash was even more an american Hero, and him too gone rogue at some point

The fact that at the end Zangief get president+soldiers, next Guile having his family speak volumes itself

Also about lifestyle Guile seem pretty close to some kind of american imagery and values

immagine


#925

I agree with the gist of it, that ASF could’ve had a more airtight and refined narrative. I disagree with his Saturday Morning Cartoon story-telling.

Bison and Ryu were always ultimately destined for one another, except if you see things through the lens of Western SF media.

I think the entire Necalli/Ryu/Bison prophecy arc could’ve enjoyed much better writing and dialogue.

I think Nash went out the only way a futile and tragic character like him could go out. Bittersweet.

I think Chun-Li choosing Li-Fen over fighting Bison was true to her development in SF4 and then SF3. If you pay attention to what she says in her story there, I don’t know how you can disagree. For the record, I love Chun-Li and would’ve loved it she kicks Bison’s ass but I also know it could never happen when everything is considered.

I think Guile and Nash had their moment the way I would expect strong stoic type military soldiers would.

I think Cammy made her peace, and the set up for her and the dolls has a lot of potential.

And I think the Illuminati was set up nicely and Kolin was an excellent character.

Overall, the plot points were true to the canon but the script’s execution was poor to mediocre. I would not change the trajectory of the story so much as improve the presentation, pacing and script.


#926

The problem with Cestus is that he just used outdated references that have evolve overtime(updated) and focusing to small details then exaggerate, while ignoring and trivializing the mostly everything else.

It’s not just about throwing reference but looking deeply in the character as whole not just from the idea in the drawing board.

Example:

He doesn’t explained what was the contrary anyway just follow how cool it can be because Zangief is this.

Then trivialize the motivation and individualism of Guile along with his evolution:

Establish Canon became less because of hollywood movies?

Like saying motivation mean less in that case, since he is just looking into partial and outdated details that fits his interest.

Guile operates on his own and beyond his superior interest that’s just a bit of his character and movies to have certain template that even carried out to this day.

Yes there are stereotype in early SF but there are exemptions especially with characters like Guile and the “family man” imagery of Guile from SF2 isn’t an american exclusive.

It’s a poor attempt to be sound convincing to fit his wishlist of making a Guile X Zangief thing.

Drawing board > Canon?

To be fair with Cestus, that kind of judgement would work with certain character that supposed to be a parody.

The thing is Guile isn’t a Jhonny Cage or Fei long.

Same thing like Lei is not Jacky Chan.

And same goes as Wesley Snipes isn’t Raven.

Raven isn’t Blade but inspired by Blade in visual.

Yet both characters shouldn’t be living the same life or Raven exact living the life pattern of Blade.


Guile had evolve and had fictional personality and character judging him via visual and likeness is a poor way to make his character interact losing his individuality to stereotype judgement to shape him to fit a wish list.

Turning Guile back to fit movie character and force the Guile X Gief because of commie and movies, is to shape Guile backward from a flesh out character.


#927

The Wasted Potential video hits all the right marks and mentions all the major problems in the story.

A Shadow Falls is bad. Flat-out.


#928

I do like the changes he described as far as separating the story into sections where there’s a group of specific characters and one main focus like Ryu’s journey, battle against Shadaloo, and a tournament (given this is the only numbered SF title to not feature one in the story). I especially like the tournament idea in the story. This gives characters like Alex and Laura something other to do besides making a cameo appearance and offering nothing to the plot. Plus it would make Karin somewhat important without making her into the defacto leader of the world warriors. She would hold the first SF tournament not held by a shady organization. I also like that he gives Necalli an actual purpose even if it’s as another spare body for Bison, even though that concept is overplayed at this point it beats whatever Necalli is supposed to be currently (if anything?).


#929

I think having a directors cut is better or having another cinematic mode set in the same time with the season 2 and season 3 characters included would be interesting.

That would expand the other areas never seen in cinematic 1 without overlapping the whole establish ending because it’s not about moving forward but bringing more of the details.

Like Ryu’s journey to improvemet before Bison and Necali encounter.


#930

Should have just made necalli a random guy from a hidden tribe whose village was disturbed and hes there to tell people to get the fk out. Like the remote tribes in the amazon or sentinel island.


#931

I was honestly surprised when Capcom decided to go with just one giant cinematic story mode instead of several ones focusing on different plots. Back in 2015 I thought it’d go like anti-Shadaloo vs. Shadaloo (Chun-Li, Bison, FANG, Cammy, etc.), Satsui no Hado within Ryu (Necalli, Ken, Dhalsim, Ryu), CWA (Mika, Zangief, Laura, etc.), but instead we got a huge mess where several characters came off of the story mode having done absolutely nothing.
I still enjoyed it since it’s the first full-blown story mode that has my favorite characters from the Street Fighter universe and it did develop the likes of Zangief, Dhalsim and Rashid, but the writing was horrible, OMG.

I’m not sure if they’re gonna remaster ASF later on. It’s released and it’s canon unfortunately, it would be weird to change some of its events in the same game (not even in a sequel), so a story 2 is more likely imo.


#932

He did a good job, but as said when se discussed that video some weekend ago, my problem with it is that he present in a whole package stuff that will be an universally welcomed as improvement together with stuff that seem very arbitrary to stick his taste

I don’t remember all his points, but i remember the Chun Li as finisher as biggest one… that alone prevent me from call it something i will trade with current version… even if Capcom handled Ryu v Bison super poorly lol


#933

They can still worked on it because it’s the same resources just will altering or used stuff that never made it.


#934

I’ll agree to those at least.


#935

The problem with Nec is that they designed him as something special, like Final Boss material, with some highly supernatural/mysterious bio and aura… only to treat him as little more than a normal plot character

It’s a bit a problem they got with Bosses they ever create them but handle them terribly lol

Gill was create with the whole “not yet not yet” making him fake his defeat vs everybody in a smartass plan to deliver a gigantic… NOTHING as now, as 20 years later SF3 still did’nt got direct sequel lol
Ingame he’s probably the most impressive Boss we ever got (purposely designed to look so), but canon wise he never actually fought like that

Seth started very well in concept, quickly degenerated ingame, end up a total failure on writing/canon side. No development, totally ignored potential of Abel as Alex-like chapter hero to built something on theyr link. No… nothing, to the point Ono admit everybody just hate Seth so lololol and a bizzarre behind the scenes moment with Bison crushing him (the best moment of Seth, wich say a lot)

Bison only true well played Boss… wich is a problem as they keep spamming him, weakening his impact, as as good character he is, nobody (except @Daemos , hi dude :smiley: ) will be particular hyped at his 4th attempt to take on SF world

Akuma keep being pushed by capcom into everybody throat as ultimate treat and shit in an ansatsuken worshipping trip (and Ryu is my fav char lol), but he will never be hype
They keep trying harder and harder but only vibe he will ever have is the “secret char” aura, but he’s no Boss
Sorry but i like them to sell me a bigger world than it’s about Ryu and his demon-dad having a karate fight lol
Of course he got way more shades than that, but really dragging this fucking Akuma is plaguing SF since forever lol

Necalli is Necalli.
All this work to have a guy that got knocked the fuck away by Rog as a 5 min test during a business meeting with Urien LOL

Ed they gave him his sinister “future” (months after leave Shadaloo) look, only to still behave ingame as a funny asshole… likeable char, but no Boss vibe as we speak

G?
I can welcome G to be revealed powerful af, using just the minimum of his power he need to defeat opponents in his self-promotion tour, hiding huge potential
The UK guy say SFV story is not over, the hope may be him
But as now all we got is a char with “not yet not yet” as Gill was, wich is not the best precedent


#936

The thing with Necalli is if they wanted him to be a red herring and lead you on to think he was the big bad only to reveal in a twist that it was still Bison all along, they could’ve done it in a really clever way. Instead we were left to with a great concept poorly used and unfulfilled.

I do believe the Necalli prophecy (that involves Bison and Ryu) should’ve been fleshed out more and been part of the bedrock for the entire ASF story. It should’ve culminated in Sim being eaten in the first act, Ryu and Necalli facing off in the end, and Bison (who the audience now believes is dead cuz of the Nash fight), appearing to have survived taking over Necalli’s body when Necalli almost defeats Ryu (Bison would’ve interpreted this as Necalli being the better body but he did not account for MNK!).

The true final battle would’ve then been between Shin Bisonecalli and Ryu, and that would’ve Bison’s plan all along of course. Set the stage to get the better of the two best possible host bodies in the known universe , attain ultimate form and do the ultimate battle with Ryu.

Sim obviously returns once Bisonecalli’s body disintegrated. Everything else would fall into place after that. But this prophecy should’ve been central and received proper writing and time.


#937

Making Seth badass was a wrong move to begin with, because we had Bison, Gill and Urien. Seth was just a disposable villain that deserve to be forgotten and make way to make Bison more than he was envisioned by many before SF4 happened.

Seth deserve to be forgotten especially before SF3 timeline. Making him reappear in SFV with badass or cool persona is a poor choice.

Having multiple existing powerful organization and boss threats set in a timeline of a game where a future doesn’t even mentioned them or referenced them is a bad idea to established and just makes things more complicated.

As for Necali, is in a similar way a filler for Akuma as Seth is a filler for Bison and Gill. If even you would look into the narrative structure and how the stories is Seth is an obvious Bison filler from the connection that even Claw makes Seth feel that way in the story.

Agree that there might be something planned big with Necali but never went through because of the trailers and artwork. Which was different from Seth case that was intended to be hat even his presentation was meant to be like that.

The problem with people like cestus is that they easily expect something special to be better when someone is written feeling superior at the beginning that was seth in OAV and even in vanilla SF4 he believes himself to be something else but in games ending it is reveal that he is just a puppet and everything was planned after all.

Yes he was intended to start to that way and good and end up disposable because he was a clone and puppet nothing more that’s the surprise that even the audience and seth is involve into that even his debut in a media from SF4 vanilla and OAV lead to it because he was designed to be like that. That’s effective way if people already expect seth would survive and exist be like Bison or Gill that’s a bad idea.

That hint that Seth was disposable is his design even before the presentation unlike Necali. Along with the narrative direction in his media debuts, it wasn’t a waste potential or a mistake because he was a filler that deserve to be gone and people not to be attached to it. Lol

Since the game is set in a timeline where in the future they don’t express any threat, power or danger. Bison is just worth saving for the future games for being the most iconic boss character and well established. His the Ganon and Koopa of SF universe.

Some boss just need to be fillers, uncool, annoying and not compete with attention the current iconic bosses. SNK did well on those with the NEST saga.

Imagine making cool and badass filler character that was hype up with the same appeal as the iconic ones so as a result people would be divided into future polls and character request of would be bosses. Even they were killed or supposed to be not existing anymore. That make Necali compete against Akuma and Seth would do the same with Bison and Gill in future interest if they are presented as better characters that what they ended.

So taking them out of the picture as simple but storywise way as delusional meh bosses that just has resources and powers but never became a direct threat ot memorable to anyone else that would have potential to exist in future SF games was a clever idea that Capcom pulled off.

So this makes both Akuma and Bison extra ordinary, exceptional and superior not just a guy with instant kill moves, mystic powers, organization or got resources.


#938

That would’ve been the perfect conclusion to ASF. Everything should’ve been done right here - Nash destroys Bison’s vessel accomplishing his mission (hinted in the CG Opening), Bison possesses Necalli which is Bison’s dream due to the fact Necalli’s body can contain any energy (hinted in Bison’s win quote to him) and then the hyped final Ryu vs. Bison & Ryu vs. Necalli battles (which were predicted by Rose & Warrior Prophet respectively) effectively happen at the same time. What we got instead - Ryu one-shotting a jobber-fleshed Necalli and appearing outta nowhere to destroy a weakened Bison, was really underwhelming.

I’m sure he’s talking about the storyline, cuz the game itself not being over is “no shit”, we all know everything is going well for the company and Type Arcade is coming soon.


#939

I still think the story was very poor. I’ve said in the past I didn’t need to see Chun beat Bison(never expected her to) but she should have been a major factor in Shadaloo’s downfall. She literally did nothing to help facilitate its destruction in ASF. They bizarrelly gave that to Rashid for some reason, so feels like she was robbed.

And I still don’t know what the hell was going on with Juri and Cammy. If that Juri OVA is indeed canon, Juri swore she’d never forgive all the Dolls, and Cammy has no love for Juri for hurting her sisters. Yet in ASF, Juri randomly appears to help her, and Cammy joins her and turns her back on her two friends and colleagues?! I mean, what the hell. That made NO sense.

And sorry, that brief moment with Guile and Nash did not cut it. Poor all around. They needed something similar to what Ken and Ryu had at the end of ASF, or you know, maybe at least some dialogue exchanged between the two.

Capcom had a tall order, and I think the general plot around the moons crashing and all that was kinda neat, but they really failed on a lot of fronts. This was too big of an undertaking and they just weren’t all that successful.


#940

As for G he still have potential because they didn’t spoil anything about him or made anything clear.

But as of now G is starting to be appealing so he good end up not a villain that would stress out everyone because of the potential likeness even in his gameplay. Compare to Necali.

The only villain now from the new characters that is entitled to reign is FANG. Storywise, Appeal and etc. That’s a better choice of Capcom than the other new villain characters that became threat to continue exist. This is why Capcom didn’t make Urien direct in contact with the likes of Bison to make the narrative easier to manage in the future.


#941

What makes Street Fighter’s animations so good? (I could go to Japanese fighting games in general).

I was watching MK11 and the games looks seriously incredible in the graphic aspect, but the characters’ animation is still real sloppy, that’s something they seem to have never gotten right. I’d say Killer Instinct has the same problem.

Do you think that would ever change? Isn’t there something they could learn from Japanese studios?


#942

Honestly these 2 needed something more than the Ryu vs Ken relationship. Guile never really had a chance conversation with Nash as to what he’s been doing against Shadaloo in his name and honor. They only get a brief moment to reconnect on a friendship level but that’s it. The tension between the two in the beginning seems unwarranted, Guile doesn’t really seem like he’s shocked to see his buddy he thought was dead even though he was the one that kept faith he was alive. Guile and Charlie should be an even deeper bromance that Ryu and Ken because one of them actually died and his corpse is being used for nefarious purposes by a secret organization. Guile isn’t even spurred to find out who may have done this to his best friend to maybe set up for a plot in a future SF past the plot of SF3, let alone why he’s alive in the first place. You would think for how much we know about Guile that he’s willing to abandon his family to pursue justice for a friend when he sees that friend he has a little more substance to his emotion. Like he was finally proven right in his faith to believe in his friend being alive and then it’s like a great big “meh”.


#943

It’s really on the design goals on how the value those areas, movement is a different aspects and probably those that handle it doesn’t bother it as a priority other than pulling cool moves and visual effects.

Having cool moves isn’t the same of having good animation, but some commonly mistake it.

NRS had cool and innovative moves but agree mostly with it’s criticism it’s like to stay that way unless they focus on it.

I don’t think they didn’t know their issue because it’s commonly talked and criticize but probably they just ignore it and focus on other aspect. What they can do is to hire people that specialize on the certain area.