Theory: With proper training and guidance, can any person become a great SSF4 player?

I was going to say, lets say, theoretically, there was an actual class based on Street Fighter 4. The class would consist and cover every single topic of the game, including theories on game psychology that Sirlin wrote on his page, as well as going over the strengths of all characters, weaknesses, match ups for every single character. reviewing all frame data, making hypothetical scenarios. Assignments would consist of performing proper combos and links and working on overall execution as well as proper use of a joystick, explaining option selects thoroughly as well as solutions to scenarios

For example, "You’ve been knocked down in the corner as Sakura and you were facing JSMaster, based on Boxer’s move set and what you had seen from his playstyle, what are your options and explain why.

Would having trained and studied knowledge from a class room on many of the intricacies of the game be able to turn the average Joe street fighter 4 player stuck at 1200 Player Points make a huge difference? Would something like this help professional players too? What do you all think?

Yes, if you take time to learn the game, you will be better at it.


Alex Valle said don’t look at frame data and all that crap. Learn from playing the game and trying things yourself.

wrong section

SF4 threads ==> SF4 forum.

That class sounds like it would be horribly boring, and ruin the fun of the game.

Alex Valle is a legend, but I have no idea why you’d deprive yourself of frame data. It’s imperative for block punishes.

Valle says a lot of stuff. Daigo doesn’t say shit and beats him.

As you can see, sometimes it’s best to remain silent.

Daigo must take after Teddy Roosevelt

“Speak quietly and carry a TE stick”

It’s largely irrelevant if you just experiment while you play. Learning the frame data, then conditioning yourself to apply it is one step too far for learning to punish something.

You don’t need to know exact frame numbers - the only thing that matters is “can I punish it?”. For example, I don’t know how much disadvantage Ryu’s sweep or Juri’s pinwheel is on block, I know I can punish it with Ryu’s super, though. The only thing that matters is “yes” or “no”, not the numbers that bring you to that decision.

yea i dont get frame datas…i dont comprehend option selects…i get lost in most of the mumbo jumbo in the forums…but i still have a hakan 14800 bp 3800 pp. i just took the time to learn no matter how many times i lost.

I feel this does belong in Newbie or Fighting, not just because I think it is another “how to get good” thread, but because IV has almost no bearing on your results. You could plug in any fighting game and the discussion won’t change much. I also think you’re going to get a better discussion rolling over there rather than the people coming here just to discuss and read up about IV specifically. Hence the shuffling over I am doing right about…now.

Upping your knowledge of options, sure. Upping your physical game…dunno. We could go on and on about the proper options on paper until we’re blue in the face. The thing is, there are a thousand other little things that happened before you ever got to this 3-second scenario. Things that are working against you that, in the for real moment, you are likely oblivious to. Correct or viable answers on paper, analyzing just those 3-seconds, can very likely become wrong answers in the actual moment. Every option has a consequence. Everything can be baited. The only way to know what you should do in that situation is to actually play with JSMaster over and over and over again. Then play, say, Crackfiend’s Boxer…or Gootek’s…or whoever the big Boxer player is now days Idunnoorcareitsirrelevantfuckboxer…then wind up in the same exact situation for different reasons.

Class and on paper can up your knowledge but it will never…ever…EVER…replace sucking up your ego, consistently going outside and getting your ass kicked in public by a variety of better players.

Practical > Theoretical.
No other way of saying that really.
Basically, instead of classes, take tips from the better players, and watch your replays to find out what you done wrong and how you can attempt to avoid that situation again.

I love you Sosage, any and all homo intended (other than the fact that you said fuck balrog)

For the past 20 years players have gotten good by busting their ass at the arcade / crack sessions / tournaments, and supplementing that experience with theory discussions, frame data, and videos. What you’re suggesting is the complete opposite.

I’m not saying it can’t work, but if you took a second class of kids and had them spend the same amount of time in a room with just some sf4 cabs and some reference material (game mechanics, move list, frame data, etc…) I’m willing to bet they’d perform many times better than the theory class.

Theory is theory. Experience is the real shit.

if you’re using sirlin’s strategies as part of a class, it will fail.

Game knowledge, consistent execution, ability to adapt= Good player. Experience and practice teaches you the three aforementioned elements. Repeated experience and practice solidifies what you’ve been taught, into your muscle memory.

Have fun.

Theory is good. Theory gives you a lot of insight. But it’s just that. Theory. Every match is always going to be different. That’s where practical learning comes into play. In my own experience, as a Chun Li player, one of my greatest and most frustrating matches have been against Rufus. I regularly play with a very competent and, even more so, aggressive Rufus player. This match up is definitely not in my favor therefore it’s an uphill battle for me. So I read stuff on SRK, watch matches on Youtube and discuss strategies with my Rufus partner. We went into the lab together to see what can be done about divekick pressure. I put this theoretical knowledge into a few matches against him. That is where I realized that although my new found strats are working on several occasions he can still deal with it. His answer was quite simple: “If I can come up with a solution for you to deal with divekick pressure, obviously I have a way to deal with that solution myself”. That’s where it hit me and it made all the difference. There is no cookie cutter solution to anything in a match. The solutions (theory) are all great tools but the way you apply them is what makes the difference. It’s kind of like when you go to university. School is only good enough to give you the tools and skills but it’s in your hands to make the best of them.

I guess my bottom line is that experiential learning will in most cases trump theoretical. By all means, keep acquiring tools through research, but also always be prepared to discover whole new ball games in the field. One way or another everything has a few ways to be dealt with and there is a whole array of different players out there.

yes and no. everyone has different advantages and disadvantages. technically, you could say that there can be broken and underpowered PLAYERS, as there are characters in a game. you can mold the underpowered into being the best they can be, you can mold the broken to be fantastic gamers, but it really depends on the effort they put into it.

I think that in any setting, at any level of skill, a player can improve. even if they don’t have access to the game. I once said something a long time ago that people took as a joke. I said I improved my game in my sleep. wasn’t bullshitting… it’s one training technique serious fighters use. back when I didn’t have SF4, I also improved my Gouken game watching youtube videos… though my actions were sluggish when I actually got the game, my logic was solid

Frame data isn’t useless, but if you don’t know what you are looking for then it doesn’t do you much good. What I do is try to punish something in game and if I wasn’t able to do that I ask myself “Is it even possible for me to punish that?” That is when I might try to look at frame data to figure out what I can use to punish it.