There is no Shortcut to Perfection! Dudley indepth Matchup Discussion DAY 1: Zangief

dudley

#1

NOTE: This is my attempt to reorganize the Dudley boards, To better help each other out we can have indepth discussions on characters every day in order to help players have a better understanding of the matchups. Granted alot of this is going to be based of personal experiences of the players and how they feel that matchup is going. Each of these threads will be linked to a stickied master thread that will be easily accesed by players viewing this board. the main points that players would like to emphasize for players to understand the matchup will be edited into this post, therefore i will not be adding my own opinions until we get a discussion going So lets get on with it.

Note 2: Also when posting in this thread, post who you would like to see discussed the next day and ill continue the trend like that.

DUDLEY
indepth matchup discussion
DAY 1: 7/29-7/30 (two days since this was posted near the end of the day on the 29th)

Dudley vs. Zangief

Tier list matchup
Dudley: 4 Zangief: 6

Dudley Board Opinion Matchup
Dudley:5 Zangief:5

Super Street Fighter 4 Tiers ? Character Rankings : EventHubs.com

KEY POINTS

Recommended Ultra: U2 Corkscrew Cross

The best strategy is to Zone him with your Pokes and Footsie game, Please read below posts for further details!

This matchup is going to be decided based on how good your footsie game is.

REMEMBER YOUR POKES! S.HP F.HP

DO NOT MGB ON BLOCKSTRING


Every rose has it's thorn: Dudley Match-up Index
#2

I use Ultra 2. To punish any jumpins and for combos.
I just fight him at mid range and watch out for his cr hk, st mp, st hk and jumpins.
It feels 5-5 to me.

Pokes of choice
-st hp- for 1 a characters body length
-st mp- for 3/4
-fwd lp- in between mp and hp range
-st hk- for countering crouching pokes. I buffer into mgb/ex mgb
-cr mk- for the same reason as st hk

Anti Airs
-st mk- right on top
-ex jet upper- right on top
-Ultra 2- Mid range. You have all day
-hp/cr hk- the edge of mid range


#3

Dont forget about your instant overhead.
Jump back + HK.
Beats wake up lariat too.


#4

This matchup is not classy. You can’t play like normal Dudley, Some people say that it’s important to use your target combo’s. I’ve tried and it helps a little, but not enough to tip the match in our favor. s.hp and f.hp work against you because there are so many active frames Gief can grab a limb. If you bait a Gief into lariat, you can c.hk, duck, straight, lp mgb his ass though. Also take advantage of the double and triple sweeps when you can. Maybe take advantage of some hk and mk ssb’s too?

My reccomendation for this match? Play gay. Play really gay. If you can pick a rainbow colored Dudley, do so, so that your opponent knows how this sorry excuse for a match is about to go down.

Matchups Decoder:

7-3: 1, 2, 3, The End.
6-4: You Have No Dignity
5-5: Let’s Fight Like Gentlemen
4-6: Not Classy
3-7: Gutter Trash


#5

Not much to say on this one…

…but I will request Vega or Guile next.


#6

I dunno. I don’t think Gief can really get in on Dudley. You can out poke him at range. He can’t jump in. You can easily push him out with cr.LP x 2 > st.LP~st.MP blockstring. You can punish all of his Lariats easily enough. Him making a mistake costs him more damage than you making a mistake.

He walks into Fierce punch all match, and has less ways of getting in than Abel.

It’s 4-6 if you try and rush him down. But you don’t have to.


#7

I agree with most everyone here about the matchup not being as hard as it looks.

A few things that I use regularly that hasn’t been mentioned is j.rh, or as I prefer to call it “the peoples elbow”. Stuffs lariats, if he blocks do target combo 8 to push yourself out of SPD range. This might get gief to start jumping. Then I go to my other point j.mk. It comes out super fast so you can beat all of giefs air to air attempts, if he gets sloppy use MP to stuff from farther away. This gives you a huge zoning advantage and shuts down his aa lariats (which can still get you if timed correctly I’m sure)

Someone please correct any obvious mistakes I have made above ^ thanks.

edit: disregard this (see post below) Apparently all the giefs I’ve fought are garbage =D


#8

The way I play Zangief is exactly the same way I would play vs other characters. Be offensive, don’t be scared to get command grabbed. If he command grabbed you, it means you’re messing up your block strings, so go back and work on those. Standing HP all day, if he green hands you, HKxxEX MGB on block, if he whiffs, Standing HP. Dont bother jumping in on him unless its a safe jump. You will most liked trade with a lariat, then he will follow up with green hand on ur way down, and now ur in a position u dont want to be at, whether he safe jumps u and command grabs u, or safe jumps and starts a blockstring combo.

Also dont be scared to go for overhead when u knock him down. He blocks low just like every other character. Ultra 2 for anti air is godlike in this matchup.

Point and case, dont mess up ur block strings or u will eat a pile driver.

Sometimes I would pause a block string, and jump str8 up only to see him whiff a command grab and I would land with HK, then S. HK xx w/e


#9

Like I posted earlier, don’t jump in on him with HK. You will trade with lariat, and good Zangiefs will follow up with ex green hand to juggle you. It’s not worth the damage you take from him, compared to the damage you take yourself, and the position you put yourself in where he can safe jump u after the ex green hand.


#10

This match up is not as hard as it seems. f+hp is a poke you should use a good amount against him. But don’t get too predictable with it. What I like to do is to make him come to me. If he jumps, you have more than enough time to smack him with st.mk. Don’t be afraid to get in close to him for a bit. Dudleys best damage comes from up close. cr.mp into ducking throw works well againt a good amount of giefs i’ve played. They don’t expect you to throw them. The main thing to do is to punish his hand slap. Every one is punishable with st hk even the ex. If you punish with st hk then you can easily knock him down with jet upper or ex mgp.


#11

Honestly, Against the average Gief, you can win the whole match by just pressing standing FP if you play super lame. Standing fierce will beat or trade in your favor with just about every one of Gief’s jump in attacks. Obviously, against a good gief, they will try to work around this and poke their way in on the ground. But for those times that you run into a Gief that isn’t so great, just hang back, stay out of sweep range, and have FP ready.

But I also agree with Liquid. When you run into a Gief that knows what’s what, you have to not be afraid to eat a few grabs and try to work the wakeup mixup game.

Also, can anyone confirm for me how neutral jump HK beats lariat sometimes but trades or loses at others? Is this just a timing thing, or does it have to do with which lariat Gief uses?

I’d also like to request Vega next.


#12

crouch lariat will beat/trade dudley’s jump rh. Against a good gief, i find it to be a good idea to try and play footsies with him with either s.fp or s.rh buffer ex mgb. against gief’s footsies pokes, at worse you trade in your favor.


#13

The reason Neutral jump HK loses or trades with lariat sometimes is because if it isn’t a safe jump, and Zangiefs pull a Deep Lariat, where he waits for the last possible second for your to land, you will lose clean 100% of the times. If he trades he did a lariat too early. If he loses, he did it way to early and probably did it on wake up or the instant you jumped.

This is similar to Chun Li’s wake up EX spinning bird kick. When you try to bait it with Nuetral Jump HK. If she does it on wake up, you beat it clean. If she waits for you to land, aka Deep EX Spinning Bird Kick, You will lose.

This is similar to Ryu’s Deep Medium Punch Dragon Punch. The reason sometimes u trade with Ryu’s DP is because they did it to early.


#14

This is a matchup i personally enjoy simply because if you zone him properly, there isn’t a thing he can do what so ever. Dudley already has a solid anti-air game against Gief ( HP is a nice trade anti-air, as it will always trade in your favor, if he’s on top of you, Jet-Upper is the anti-air of choice or if need be Standing MK) and depending on what ultra you use, you might have another anti-air option against him. i know most people prefer Corkscrew Cross in this matchup and I understand why, however i personally prefer Rolling Thunder (U1).

The reason for this is, if you going to be zoning Gief away from you except when going on wake up mixup games, ur not going to be too close to gief to use U2 except off of combo or anti air. U1 acutally has alot of useful punish potential. U1 can punish both Lairats, a whiffed SPD, whiffed Super, and Whiffed Ultra. The real usefulness comes when you block Lairat and it pushes u out. BOth ultras can punish Lairat, however if the lairat pushes you out with Gief spinning backwards, you’ll never get the punish, however U1 near the end of the Lairat will stuff it everytime. don’t do U1 off of reaction of Lairat, you WILL get knocked out of it, the timing for it is near the end of the lairat.

Victory in this matchup is very dependent on your footsie game, which Dudley’s is good enough to keep out Geif so long as you don’t do anything to crazy. And while you shouldn’t be afraid to eat 1-2 SPDs, if you’re eating more than 2 a game, you might want to rethink your strategy. This is why a good footsie game is more important than your mixup game in this matchup IMO. Pokes like S.HP F.HP C.MP are necessary tools to defeating the Russian Wrestler.

Jump-in’s are not really advised unless you’ve got him panicking on mixup game, and do not try to follow up a block string off of a Blocked people’s elbow Thats asking to eat a Reversal SPD.

If your pressuring geif with block strings DO NOT end any of them with an MGB, YOU WILL eat a reversal SPD 100% on all MGBs in fact if your pressuring him with block strings, i recommend pushing him out with S.HP or Target combo 8, pushes you out of SPD range and if they whiff and SPD go for the punish.

There really isn’t much to this matchup except play smart, gay, and NOT RECKLESS. Follow that and you’ll come out on top.

I would say this matchup is 5-5 if you’re not playing dumb.


#15

Zangief. In my opinion is a much easier match up.

  1. You don’t have to struggle to get close like others… you actually try to stay close without getting TOO close.
  2. s.hp f+hp = Your main damaging moves.
  3. Lariat punishable by j.hk followed by s.hk xx EX MGB etc.

But it is entirely true. This match up is entirely different for a lot of characters. Dudley especially. Only characters I could see sticking to a zoning tactic would be Dhalsim, Seth and Guile. Which can play similarly to other match ups. But this match up is all about pokes and quick in and out combos.


#16

Ok for zoning/punishements but what about wakeup game ? Not mine, but his wakeup game. Against a good Zangief (god 2 days ago, I can feel the pain again) when I’m on the ground, I’m totally free against his mixups.


#17

I like the c.lp, c.lp s.lp, s.hp string against him. it also combos


#18

s.LP s.HP isn’t a blockstring.


#19

Meaty overhead is completely safe vs Gief on block.

I like to throw Gief on his wakeup. Lariats/EX Banishing Flat flat out lose to grabs. And then if you can get him to start doing command throws to beat your normal throws you can punish them extremely hard with a neutral jump j.hk -> s.hk or by backdashing on his wakeup. People have told me that wakeup SPD can also lose to normal throw with proper timing. The real reason you want to get him to throw tech/reversal though is that if he does wakeup SPDs they flat out lose to proper meaties and if you can minimize his strong reversals you can do a high/low mixup. I wouldn’t try frame traps really though, if he guesses right either go for a throw or get the hell away.

Watch out for random EX Banishing Flat. You really can’t block it on reaction but if you just hold back when you’re not doing stuff it helps a lot. Punish it hard with s.hk xx whatever. Don’t just throw.

Be careful about throwing out s.hp. If Zangief can predict that you’re going to do it he can jump at you and you won’t have time to AA him with anything but EX Jet Upper. f.hp is even worse in this regard. If he guesses right you eat a jump-in combo. Honestly I wouldn’t try to abuse f.hp at all because if he makes it whiff you’ll eat at least cr.lk xx EX Banishing Flat and then you’re in trouble.


#20

He really can’t out poke Dudley. st.HP stuffs everything. If he tries to walk in and chop you, you can throw out f+HP and probably get a Counter Hit to combo into st.HK xx EX MGB for over a third of his life. Zangief players aren’t used to ever seeing that happen.

Neutral jump HK is beautiful. And you have enough life to actually get the opportunity to work out if they are going to be throwing out 360s in your strings.