There is no Shortcut to Perfection! Dudley Indepth Matchup Discussion DAY 6: Guile

dudley

#1

There is no Shortcut to Perfection! Dudley Indepth Matchup Discussion DAY 6: Guile

NOTE: This is my attempt to reorganize the Dudley boards, To better help each other out we can have indepth discussions on characters every day in order to help players have a better understanding of the matchups. Granted alot of this is going to be based of personal experiences of the players and how they feel that matchup is going. Each of these threads will be linked to a stickied master thread that will be easily accesed by players viewing this board. the main points that players would like to emphasize for players to understand the matchup will be edited into this post, therefore i will not be adding my own opinions until we get a discussion going So lets get on with it.

Note 2: Also when posting in this thread, post who you would like to see discussed the next day and ill continue the trend like that.

DUDLEY
indepth matchup discussion
DAY 5: AUG. 10th

Dudley vs. Guile

Tier list matchup
Dudley: 4 Guile: 6

Dudley Board Opinion Matchup

Super Street Fighter 4 Tiers ? Character Rankings : EventHubs.com

KEY POINTS

Recommended Ultra:


Every rose has it's thorn: Dudley Match-up Index
#2

Im very interested in this thread, so far i get punished by punches in the face after ducking SB, either his array of AA beats or trades with my attacks, i have won matches against Guiles, but i think my game needs a little more knowledge, so far i can say that pressure makes the oponents playing guile miss either FK, or ultras, thats what has worked for me so far, but the matches are always different, well tho little is all i have to offer, hope someone has better info.

C u laterz


#3

This match-up is in Guiles favor heavily. My suggestion, if you play vs him in a tournament, have a secondary character ready.


#4

This.

Learn to play dhalsim. Many of dudley’s worst matchups are turtle characters and best way to beat turtles imo is to out turtle them.


#5

Don’t be scared to block sonic booms. Just walk a bit and then block them. Soon Guile would have walked himself into the corner. Stand in the sweet spot where he can’t jump over you to escape the corner. Now get to work.

All this is easier said than done. Land a knockdown and get Guile guessing. He stuns fairly quick so hit him hard.

You can punish FK FADC Backdash with U1 (Reversal timing).

Not sure how to approach rushdown/offensive style Guiles. Don’t run into them often or at all.


#6

I would say Ultra 2 is preferred in this match simply due to the recovery on his sonic booms; you’re not gonna be getting through those and connecting. Plus, with turtle characters like this, it’s more beneficial to simply be able to end a combo with ultra for some extra damage- you may not get another chance.

My 2 cents…


#7

Guile is going to sonic boom. Sonic boom chip is like ~15. Patience is the most important thing for this matchup. Dudley can’t bully Guile until he’s in. Even when Dudley is in, you have to bait and still be patient. Getting in doesn’t mean be “in guile’s ass.” If you go to about your s.hp and f.hp ranges, you can beat his Sonic Booms and when he flash kicks, he can’t FADC them because Guile is off the ground already.

Don’t expect every guile to flash kick. going into the Guile matchup with the “lol punish random flash kick” mentality means you’re setting yourself up to lose. The same goes for punishing bad sweeps. If you see a guile random FKing and badly spaced cr.hk, you know they’re terrible and have no concept on how to play Guile. Go nuts. Don’t expect a guile to walk himself into a corner. They WILL stand their ground. Guile’s pokes are awesome. Good Guile’s will abuse you by mixing up sonic booms, which is an amazing poke (9 frame startup and good range on first active frame) and backfist (which has deceptive range if you aren’t familiar).

don’t press buttons if he’s walking toward you behind the boom. He’s probably going to s.rh, s.hp, or backfist you with frame advantage.

Guile will meaty sonic boom you on wakeup. this means block on wakeup.

I suggest U2, but some people like to be psychic with U1. If you have the reactions, go with Dudley’s U1. You’ve been warned. it’s not going to be easy to punish Sonic Booms and Guile won’t stop throwing them either. With Dudley’s U2, you know you have to get in to win. U2 just adds that extra bit at the end of the combo which may edge you ahead.

Don’t jump too often. business elbow is trade-bait for Guile hk.FK trade to U2. lk.FK will beat it clean at most ranges. you can also be jumping into an AA U2 from Guile as well. That’s never fun. Also, early AA FK ~ U2 and Super ~ U2. All these things are from jumping around. Work on your ground game. You don’t have to duck every SB and get as close as possible. You want to get your s.hp and f.hp on until Guile stops throwing booms in your face and move in, because Guile will continue to throw booms in your face until you tell him “NO MORE!”

Rushdown Guile is lulz. There’s a difference between a rushdown guile and Guile Corner Pressure. If you’re in the Corner against a good guile, they will pressure you. Guile has AMAZING corner pressure. Wait it out. Sonic Booms and normals are really the only thing he can do to you. Don’t get antsy when he’s got you in the corner. You’re taking 15 chip at most, every second + random overheads and the occasional throw. Watch for holes in his pressure and don’t get flustered.

Shades: When Guile puts on the shades in the first round he thinks you’re free. If he wins the first round and puts them on it means he thinks you’re really free. If he has them on, loses and takes them off, it means he’s getting serious (watch for shenanigans). If he puts them on and takes them off at every opportunity, he’s playing a drinking game with his friends and you should really counterpick Guile…this matchup sucks for Dudley.


#8

I’m guilty of jumping too much on Guiles when it ain’t safe (when not at point blank),
also I’ve gotten the spacing down for duck-upper’ing sonic booms if i really need to i just super cancel it for 30% damage.

His super / Ultra do NOT armour break, you can focus them/ cross counter them… not sure how many good Guiles throw them out while you’re on your feet =/
His ultra 2 is VERY slow, if you’re on the ground at point blank… don’t fear just dash towards him! simples. outside of the corner i have yet to be hit by this, they’ll most likely just stand there wondering why your not hit by his suckish ultra feel free to hit him with most damaging combo you have.

I’m sure you need to do safer blockstrings if Guiles is flash kicking through your hits… flash kick is a charge move… it can’t be mashed to my knowledge.

I haven’t played many Good Guiles so sorry for the technical knowledge, I can’t say anything for those Guiles that don’t Flash kick outside combos… sh*t’s too solid, as for Rushdown Guiles… your rushdown is better.


#9

Double post…
It didn’t even show the you have to wait 15 seconds page…
=/


#10

I find that the key to this matchup with Dudley (this is the ONLY time I suggest getting a secondary) is push him into the corner as quick as freakin possible and do not let him leave. If you can stay in on him you have the match.

Guile is still a character that perplexes me as how someone who has had the same two moves for the last 20 some odd years manages to be so pro in this game. Sonic Booms recovery is too quick to even bother punishing with U1, so i would suggest going U2 all the way just to get that damage in.

Do not jump in on Guile EVER, unless its to punish a boom. I fyou have the reflexes or are able to read an opponent to punish a boom via jump in or ducking, go for it but do not do it too often.

This may seem a bit redudant when talking about Dudley, but if you’re able to mind fuck guile, you’re golden. Most guile’s i’ve played tend to freak out when pushed into a corner (reltively good guile’s who knew the dudley matchup from what i could tell). Flash Kick is FREE on block so hit him with a S.HK xx EX MGB and push him closer to that corner, however salpal is right most good guile’s are not gonna spam FK so don’'t rely on that, but if you can make them panic, keep an eye out for that. Guile loses all composure when you’re in his face and beating that shit outta him in the corner, but just know that what he can do in the corner albeit very little HURTS. (this is if guile is in the corner and ur kicking his ass, if its the other way around cover your butt and be patient).

If playing a keep away guile, take some time a focus a couple booms to build up revenge meter, you’re gonna need U2 if you really want to win this matchup just to build the extra damage. If you have the life lead, be very careful no to lose it, its very hard to get back against guile.

Note: Badly spaced C.HK block the first hit, focus the second.

If ur feeling brave an your opponent likes to meaty boom, wake up with ultra, gets em everytime, but don’t rely on that, its just a suggestion if you notcie you’re opponent really like meaty boom.

Thats all i really have to say about this matchup, i groan everytime i see a guile on Ranked online, its a pain in the ass matchup. Not impossible, but long, drawn out and frustrating.


#11

I always notice that if you hang back and absorb their booms without taking much damage if none at all, they get antsy and start barreling towards you. I guess that’s more of the Guile scrub mentality if anything. They usually waste EX meters on random EX boom, then run towards you with your ultra loaded. This match-up is interesting because he can only really scare you while you’re coming in I feel. Most Guiles don’t respect non-fireballers online anyway, so they usually won’t have an answer to inside games.


#12

If guile doesn’t have meter, don’t be afraid to just walk toward him. You can LK Duck all of his SB’s on reaction and continue moving forward at the same time. I really don’t think Guile is that hard of a match up for Dudley. You just have to be reckless in your approach. Don’t even let him think about spacing you out.

Guile has his Sonic Booms but they can only do so much on their own. I think Guile’s fireball game is a walk in the park compared to Gouken/Sagat.


#13

Guiles f+hp backfist is a nightmare if they know how to use it properly.

But reiterating a bit: try to walk him into a corner, dont unless its at a really good time, try to knock him down, counter poke/trade normals with s.hp.

Sometimes fishing with c.mk can pay off in the long run if you score the knockdown. Its that big of a deal to help win this tough matchup.


#14

Uhh if you try to duck sonic booms against good guiles you will be eating normal after normal after normal before your duck even finishes. If you are point blank it might work but most guiles just wont throw out a boom that close and will resort to his amazing pokes.


#15

If a Guile has the nerve to throw SB’s at point blank then you aren’t pressuring properly. Those are easily punishable by a simple jump in.

I was referring to the point of a match where Guile is mid to full full screen away spamming SB. He can space his pokes, but that doesn’t mean you can’t space your ducks either. Using LK Duck instead of the other two allows you to beat his Sonic Booms without being hit by a random poke. The only time ducking won’t work is when Guile is actually walking forward and following his SB.


#16

guile is a pretty challenging but fun match imo.

i play my friend’s guile which isnt very bad at all, and i seem to be able to have moderate success.

i go w/ U1.if guile focuses his backdash flash kick its punishable w/ U1. also reacting to sonic boom is hard but reading when they want to throw it and studying their habits and ranges at which they throw them makes it easier, especially if their desperate in trying to keep you out.


#17

lol@ever trying to duck through sonic booms. good luck with that


#18

Like Chuns that follow their kikokens, you can punish Guiles that follow their booms with U1. That is of course if you catch them dashing. Needless to say, it’s pretty risky.

Mix up how you deal with the booms, predictable moves get punished with Guile’s myriad of options. Duck, FA, jump (careful with the slow booms though, and not just forward jumps, use neutral jumps, too.), etc. Even when you’re ducking past them, mix those up if he isn’t within range of punishing you. ’

Also, scrubby Guiles seem to like to Flash Kick right after c.hk, so watch out for that option if you do see it. If the scrubs use it the decent players probably know about it and might pull it out of the bag of tricks every once in awhile.

Pretty general now that I look at it, but even the small stuff helps.


#19

From my experience, here is what I would do. Start of the match, walk him into the corner, duck, block, or focus backdash the SB. Soon he will be in the corner without EX. Then I look out for him to jump to get out of the corner, and I AA him to push him back. After they realize they cant get out, the hard part is getting in on them, cause they are going to be down charging for sure. I would slowly take one step in and mix up with jabs and f MK if I can. Once I do get in, I would either look for opening or just hit them with a top down so they get damage and I get a combo. Doing all of that will be enough to make them throw out at least a random flash kick. So if i know them down, I either bait it out or early Daigo OS it so that they think its safe to do the flash kick. I repeat this with the sweep/ top down mix up in the corner so he is confuse. Because of grab, because if you dont throw those out at the right time, you can get grab in the middle of animation. If they knock me down, they would surely try to jump out of that corner. I would wake up cross counter it or block depends on what I see the player style is. If he gets out, repeat the process. If he sonic boom and backfist, then look out for those. The one trick i like to use when he throw SB is to do a lk or mk duck to get over, then either follow up with another duck or forward jump MK on guile, If he is not charging downback for the flash kick off course. Since if he throw the sonic boom while walking back, I get a free jump in before he can charge down back. U2 is my choice, since U1 is useless, plus cross counter into U2 helps when you need it. With all that said, I still have a hard time against guile, but I would take this match over Chun or Bison anyday.


#20

so much anti-scrub guile tactics…leave that shit out of this forum please…