Things to research with each character at Evo


#1

Generally a thread to list down the things you want to be experimented with regarding each character. Any general questions about their attack or playstyle or the general system options.

General System/Mechanics:

Ryu:

Chun Li:

Nash:

Bison/Dic:

Cammy:

Birdie:

Ken:

**Alex **(mwahahah):


#2

Ryu: I just want to see him played, effectively. I want to witness how good that parry can be, used to its full potential. I’m not expecting Daigo vs JWong, but yeah. I also want to see his V-Trigger used in an effective manner, most matches I’ve seen with Ryu have been lackluster in displaying his potential (I know the game is new haha, js). I want to see how good those charge hadouken’s can really be.

Birdie: He was initially believed to be really strong. Probably because he doesn’t have too large of a learning curve compared to the rest of the cast with his great normals/buttons and his high damage output… I want to see how he does against Ken, along with the other cast members now that top players have a bit more experience with the current cast

Ken: I’m pretty interested in his rushdown capabilities. He pretty much gets FADC with the activation of his V-Trigger. Might as well nickname Ken “Highlight Reel”.

Alex (mwahahah): You know man he has great normals, great range on his command grabs, grea… oh shit he’s not in yet :smiley:


#3

Since I imagine most things will already be covered by other people (especially for Ken.)

I’m curious about air-to-air/anti air juggles. A general thing would be crush counters in the corner. For example, I’ve seen that Ryu is in a counterhit state if you hit him before he lands from a shoryuken. So, if you have the enemy Ryu in the corner and you hit him in SRK recovery, can you follow up? (CH s.fierce > EX SRK or something.)

There are also some normals that seem like they could allow juggles if you air-to-air with them, but I haven’t seen confirmation for whether it works (maybe I missed it.) Example theory combos: Nash neutral jump RH > EX somersault, or Chun 1-hit jump fierce > EX SBK or toe taps. I’ve seen the nash one as a V-trigger extension, but not raw off an air-to-air hit.


#4

Find out if Birdie has any white-skinned alternate colors.

Edit since apparently some soft boys here need reminded of this

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/streetfighter/images/3/31/Sf1-birdie.gif/revision/latest?cb=20080509022255


#5

Nash:

-Test the following combo combo starter xx EX Tragedy Assault (DP+PP), Back V-Trigger, j.RH, EX Sonic Scythe.
-This was a combo we saw in pre-e3 footage but bobody at e3 could get this combo to work. I think I have some ideas how to get this to work. I recall that if I mashed back V-Trigger immediately after EX Tragedy Assault I would get Forward V-Trigger instead where he teleports behind them on the ground. I think what happens is that Nash momentarily swaps sides with the opponent so it reverses the input. You should be mashing forward V-Trigger and you should end up behind and above the opponent for the combo to work.
-Test if you can V-Trigger cancel his Tragedy Assault special on hit and block. If it works on block gauge how safe/unsafe it is.
-Test what combos you can get after a f+Fierce crush counter.
-Find a practical use for EX Moonsault Slash. I’m like 99% positive this is the worst special move in the game. Refer to my notes on the Nash thread on how this special works.

Ryu:

-Test what combos into Tatsu that works against crouching characters. I thought Ryu couldn’t combo into Tatsu on crouchers but apparently he can.
-Find out what you can combo after s.Fierce crush counter. Vesper and I couldn’t find anything but maybe it could lead into guard crush fireball setups.

Chun-Li:

-Test if her V-Skill is airborne on frame 1. See if it’s a good escape vs meaties.
-Test what normals she can combo into and out of V-Trigger. ie. b+Fierce (CH) xx V-Trigger, cr.Forward or something.
-Test what combos are possible with her V-Trigger.

Ken:

-Test cross up tatsu with regular and EX tatsu. Then try the same thing with V-Trigger active. Get specifics like the spacing, strength of button, etc…
-Test if you can do V-Trigger combos like b+Strong~Fierce xx jab DP, Fierce DP or b+Strong~Fierce xx short Tatsu, Fierce DP
-Double check if cr.Forward xx shot Tatsu combos on crouchers.
-Test what other Crush Counter normals he has if any. So far s.RH is confirmed as a Crush Counter normal. Easiest way to test this is either CH Ryu whiffed parries or delay a slow normal for the other player.

System Mechanics:

-I know specials will come out after whiffed normals but try negative edging the special and see if they still come out.


#6

Can someone please bring us footage of Bison’s mythical 70%+ combo? The one that involves the corner, v trigger, and 3 ex moves cancelled into each other?

Also please check for the differences between lp, mp, hp Psycho Blast (b,f+P).

Does his V trigger buff Psycho Blast and Psycho Inferno (d, u+P) in any way?

Lastly, it would be great to see Bison played with less emphasis on his scissor pressure and more on his new and improved specials etc.


#7

Cammy, Chun: How are their low forwards and stand fierces (as well as other godlike pokes)?


#8

General:
What are the button priorities? H > M > L or L > M > H? P > K or K > P (you can test with jumping attacks)
What are the move priorities? If you press V-Skill/Trigger + throw, what comes out? If you do super + V-Skill/Trigger?
Can normal moves be kara-cancelled into specials? What about kara’ing into v-skill/trigger? Does the kara give you added distance when cancelling into V-Skill/Trigger?
Trip Guard?
Can you always tech throws on landing, or does performing an aerial move nullify the ability to tech during landing frames?
General frame advantage on jump ins? Is it high like SFIV, low like ST, or somewhere in the middle?
What are the criteria for a crush counter?
CPS1/A3 X-ism style chains?
Is the last frame of wake-up a standing one, meaning you can use Hooligan Throw-style traps?
What are the gaps between normals on block? True blockstrings, or can they be DP’d through?
Do cross-ups push the opponent toward you, or away from you
Are the throw ranges the same, longer, or shorter than in SFIV? Do they differ between characters?
After an aerial reset, is the player vulnerable to attacks as soon as they hit the ground, or are there a few frames of invincibility?

Ryu:
Does cr.mk xx hadou combo from max distance? Is it a true blockstring?
Is st.lk xx hadou a combo? A blockstring?
Is the arc of his air tatsu more-or-less constant or does it depend on the height?
Can he do a “juice kick”?
How punishable is tatsu on block?
Is cr.hk, j.hk a safejump if the opponent doesn’t quick rise?
What is the range like on cr.mk? Comparable to SFIV?
If he does point-black cr.mp and the opponent blocks, is he still in range to land a throw?
Does cr.hp do the same damage if it hits with the later active frames, or less?
Any juggle properties on counter-hit regular/ex/v hadoukens?

Bison:
Does his standing block animation cause his lower hurtbox to shrink, expand, or stay the same?
What happens when their supers trade? Is this even possible?

Nash (and other projectile users):
Can they get counter-hit after the projectile is on screen, like Guile in SFIV?


#9

Nash: j.hp/j.hk, cr.hp, knee - punch target combo, two punch target combo


#10

General:

  • In an overall statement, how many active frames are on moves.
  • General statement on how safe specials seem to be on block.
  • Along the same vein, are there any sort of recovery invincibility to worry about, or are meaties a very viable form of keeping an opponent pinned?
  • Are reversals gifted any sort of silly properties or just a name-sake more than anything else?
  • For the few charges that are in the game, I’d be interested to know what the charge window seems to be and the leniency on holding it. I know we’re not getting the super awesome amazing charge partitioning, but I’m interested to know if it’s still possible to hold them perhaps through a dash or something, as that was just barely possible in SFIV.

Ryu:

  • How good is his c.HP as a counter-poking tool? And, more-over, with his MK tatsu being able to hit crouchers, can it do so from max range, or is it like Gouki’s/Ken’s Tatsu in 3S, where it hits low only close-up?
  • If the above is not true, what seems to be the best counter-poke confirm for him from max range? (Step-kick or new special please~)
  • Since it’ll be beta and maybe a different build, can you really test that his aerial tatsu can’t cross-up anymore? Cause that change is so silly and makes no sense contextually – the kick is there, why does it have no hitbox? That’s some SFIV hitbox shit~
  • What’s the recovery like on all versions of his tatsu both on the ground and in the air.
  • Can you combo after a meaty f.MP?
  • General parry leniency time and recovery time.
  • Do parries seem to have any sort of start-up, like a frame or so? Or does pressing both buttons immediately put out the parry frames?
  • More insight on the specifics of his V-trigger. Supposedly it increases hit-stun on some of his normals as well, but I wonder how true that is.
  • Try to find any sort of “unblockable” setups with his EX-hadoken in V-trigger. You could definitely do it with Denjin.

Cammy:

  • Peter kept mentioning how the game will inform you if something is a cross-up or not. I’m not sure exactly what that means when it comes to her hooligan shenanigans. Do you actually not have to block them in reverse if she goes behind you? Or does it simply not show up as a cross-up because it’s not technically a cross-up, so much as she is just “jumping” behind you and using a special. Overall just interested in the directions required to block it.

#11

Ken-can you v skill a block dp. Is it safe on block?

Can you block the moment you land? Can you block the moment you land if you used a normal.


#12

General

Do backdashes have airborne frames.
Invincible frames on critical arts (I know nash is only fireball invincible).

RYU

Can you cancel DP into critical art?
Can you fireball trap them like in vanilla AE (super be on the screen same time as fireball).
What can you juggle after j.mp (reportedly you can get shoryuken with v-trigger on).
Does f.hp, cr.hp, v-trigger, cr.hp xx tatsu/dp work.
General frame advantage on blocked f.hp (block and hold up on both controllers at the same time)

KEN
General frame advantage on blocked step kick (block and hold up on both controllers at the same time).
General frame advantage on v-skill cancels.


#13

Chun things I’m planning to look into as soon as I get beta, but other people might want to look at are

  • I’d love to see video of the Kara-throw. (this might already exist, but I haven’t noticed it)
  • Check if she has a kara-throw off of crouching mp as well as 4?6 mp (or 5mp, or whatever her normal one is).
  • Check frame advantage off air LL on block/hit
  • Check how useful air LL is to safely move forward over fireballs, either using jump forward lk LL like Guy’s elbow, or nj hk LL like Honda stop sign/just to get back on the ground faster.
  • Can she Tiger knee air LL? Is this a useful pressure move?
  • Somebody said lk LL drops her to the ground, does hk keep her in the air, can she use it to make normal anti-airs whiff? Can she use lk LL to stop further away and make uppercuts whiff?
  • Can she anti-air with V-skill? In particular, from slightly further away, where B.HK can whiff. If it trades, does she land fast enough to juggle with super, or ex LL?
  • In general, check what anti-air options she has from further away, where B.HK can whiff, lk, lp, mp, 4?6 mp, hp, and 5hk all seem like they’re worth looking into.
  • Is it possible to hit with the tip of her V-Skill on block, and then attack again with hk, hp, or air LL before the opponent leaves blockstun? It doesn’t look like it, but I was planning on testing to be sure.
  • If she gets a crush counter with f.hk (3s Chun hk), can she do LL, ex or otherwise, instead of doing dash -> combo, or super?
  • Can she go through fireballs with super?

V-Trigger

  • Can she combo after max range cr.mp?
  • is f.hk (3s Chun hk) even or better on block?
  • Can she combo after cr.mk?

For the record, by “check frame advantage” I mean “do it on block/hit, then both players hold up”, I’m sure most people know that, but just in case.

-Edit
Ryu
*Can you get a full combo after Parrying scissor kicks/Genocide kicks/lk tatsu/sbk?


#14

Already confirmed that the angle depends on the button pressed.


#15

Ryu: Does Denjin guard break, and does 3S style meaty fireball into Denjin work?


#16

Edit: linking to specific times doesn’t seem to work properly, it’s at 1:48

There are some other things in the thread that have already been covered by footage, but I’m not sure where they are in videos.


#17

Chun: does her overhead have any invincibility like it does in A2 plus:

What are her good pokes.
What are her good AAs
Any hype combos from her v trigger?


#18

Maybe it goes without saying, but if a character is revealed and playable at evo, whether they’re new or returning, a comprehensive breakdown of their moveset, combos, cancelable normals, command normals, special inputs, etc.


#19

I’d like to see somebody down a shoto and then let lose with a flurry of lights on their wake-up that sees the shoto player block at first and then mash with reckless abandon. I’m really curious to see what aspects of SFIV’s derpy mash ability has found it’s way into SF5, if at all.

Maybe substitute the lights with crouching strongs as a means to test block stun and see the outcome also. The footage released so far has demonstrated expected mashing, but I don’t think we’ve seen anything let rip during block strings that has been one of SFIV’s more questionable aspects and something I’m really hoping is no more. This might give some information about SF5’s pressure, blockstun and counterhit game which I think is already looking promising with the removal of crouch tech.


#20

See if you can cancel anti air normals into specials to juggle for more damage with Charlie ex dp since it has juggle potential.