Things you just don't understand about ST


#8

Speaking of…
For his super ( fei ) you can qcf,qcb but those inputs ( the ones you mentioned and the ones I mentioned ) are cross up specific.

( I sure did use a lot of () in this post )


#9

Thanks guys, and thanx vf4 for nice vids that show clearly how you can add to your strats these “side” tricks. And blitzfu, your post is very interesting to ; but i was asking my question because i once got a magic backward dp while actually entering classic 1p side dp inputs. Now I liked an answer pretty much, 'cause I think it can bring some light :
“The ‘backwards DP’ in the original post is probably because the opponent switched sides after the input was completed, but before the button was pushed (or released).” Two ideas :
1/ So, all in all, does it mean the following thing (brain smoke): to get my dp in the opposite way I’ve entered the inputs, I have to start pushing forward (while still on the ground) and finish the motion normally, the cpu recording my first input in the side the opponent was just before crossing up. And in that way again, it would mean the (lets call it like that) magic dp wont come out if i start to enter the input when I’m crossed up. That seems to make sense. Still I don’t know if it is the actual case. Please continue to enlighten me on this point.
2/ Much more nerd and complicated : in addition to 1/, can someone tell me what is the maximum amount of time the cpu allows you between first, second (and why not) third input of DP ? and what amount of time (frames ?) you have between the motion being performed, and the button to be pushed ? Asking that cause if my suggestion in 1/ is true, knowing that would help.
Thanx for answers, I really hope I’m clear because it’s kinda complicated lol.


#10

This is specifically for combos, and he does say that those are ‘mostly’, not always. In a non-combo setting, another reverse attack situation is cross-unders after air resets.


#11

The command is relative to the opponent. Left, down, down-right will produce an uppercut if the opponent switches sides while you’re hitting down.

I tried to test this in HDR, and didn’t get that far. Roughly speaking, it seems that you get something like 8 frames per input, starting with the initial ‘towards’, but you don’t get the initial 8 frames if you start with a held direction, and there’s some maximum time - something like 20 frames - between inputs – I think it’s less for the button push. So if you start from neutral, you can take up to 24 frames (a staggeringly long time, really, about 1/3 second accounting for turbo) to do the DP motion and still have it come out. If you start with a held towards, you only have 16 frames to complete the motion. I suspect that the button push follows a similar schedule in ST, but I haven’t tested.


#12

In the wiki and forum discussion people keep saying that the game won’t let you tech throw to reduce damage if the throw is going to kill you.

But again and again I see counter examples of this. People can still tech throw when they have like 12-14 pixels of life (and sometime the damage is only like 4-6 pixels).

Is it because of the random number engine acting up and the guy doing the throw just being unlucky?


#13

You CAN tech a normal throw but you CANNOT soften the throw if the full non-softened damage of the throw will kill you. A tech and a soften are actually two different things as well. You can tech a throw that will kill you and you will see the [media=youtube]bhSWzWnMNO4&#t=2m02s"]full throw tech animation (aerial recovery) but your character will still eat the full damage of the throw (damage will not soften). Here’s Dictator throwing O.Honda [for comparison. If you don’t tech a throw that will kill you, then you eat the ground recovery version of the throw (non-tech version) and the damage isn’t softened as well.

Can’t happen. The game calculates that you are dead [media=youtube]-xA1u0Y3AKw"]before you can soften the damage of the throw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLO35aWgNRI&#t=24s"[/media). Even though you go immediately into the aerial recovery animation that a tech throw produces you still eat the [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlCFhnI_y4Y&#t=6m49s”[/media].

Basically yes. If someone is near death and they manage to tech a throw and soften the damage they just lucked out.


While I’m here I’ll throw this out as well as I haven’t seen many people talk about it. Chun’s normal throws are bugged in two ways. The first is that you can throw your opponent [media=youtube]SDhx0haHhKQ"[/media] and are standing. Normally you have 13 frames of throw invulnerability when you wake up. However Chun’s normal throws often ignore that rule and allow the player to immediately threaten a throw on wake up. I’ve seen Claw’s off the wall throw ignore that rule as well. Second is that Chun’s normal throws do enormous damage, sometimes even on the level of command throws, which I would estimate is not intentional and is likely a bug.


#14

I still don’t understand how NKI did Cammy’s super in the air.


#15

^word.

someon explain. i wanna do blanka air super lol.


#16

I have a deep knowledge of ST and I basically understand all of the mid/high level tactics. But there’s one thing that completely baffles me-the dizzy system in ST/HDR. What the fucking hell is up with that system? Please someone explain this to me.

I suspect my sparing partner understands the system. In our matches, I routinely get dizzied by him at weird moments of the match-like the first attack of matches. He will not explain to me what the fuck is going on though. If anyone wants to share any insight about how it works, I’m all ears though.


#17

One word randomness. The engine has a random factor that no one can explain.


#18

Maj and the ST Wiki have tried to explain it:

I also remember something about an instant dizzy by an attack or combo within the 1st 10 seconds of a round that wouldn’t normally dizzy outside of the 1st 10 seconds, but I can’t find an article or post that relates to that right now.


#19

One thing that puzzles me…is how the fuck do you get blanka’s super to not roll back after you block it in a corner.

Seems to be random.


#20

it’s controllable.


#21

Thanks for being so in-depth. At first, I didn’t think I’d be able to process all that information in one sitting.


#22

SeikouSeikouShita revealed to me a useful fact. Strong/Forward, your middle strength attacks, they inflict high amounts of stun. Looking at most touch of death combos, they do involve the use of those attacks. He told me to try neutral jump MP, st MP, sonic boom with Guile to gauge just how it works, usually the next hit will dizzy after that combo. All I know is that now I try to utilize medium strength attacks a lot more where it’s feasible/convenient. That’s not going to break open the whole stun system, but it does explain many characters and their frequency to stun.


#23

yea i figured you might prefer an answer from someone of your own superior race, me just being a lowly sand ****** and all.


#24

You’re right, next time don’t reply.


#25

Dizzy system works randomly, but has consistancy as well, which is why JP Gied headbutt almost always dizzies:

-every single unblocked attack has an x% chance to dizzy regardless of how much dizzy dmg you have taken, i believe this number is 1/256 but I don’t remember whwre i got this number. This ould be the TRULY random dizzies.

-at the begining of the round, dizzies are much more likely, ten seconds sounds about right before dizzy goes to normal.

-the trick to mashing out of dizzies is two fold, most people only know half of it. Mash the buttons while wiggling the stick from d/b to up forward. Also, the best seattle ST player at mashing out of dizzy (ask anyone, XTG was insane at it), found it is way easier to maah out by starting as SOON as you stand up. Most people start mashing as soon as they see stars/bells/reapwrs while falling.

Another thing I can’t figure out, how come boxer’s super ends sooner sometimes? It has randomly saved me from being punished sometimes, but i don’t get it. Also, do TAPs charge based on the timer, or real world seconds? If timer seconds, certain stages boxer would have a bigger advantage because the timer is faster on them.

What causes those ‘flicker’ graphical glitches? Theyre in the DC vers as well as cps2. Also why is that square chunk missing out of Ryu’s stage? Is the tile not addressed right and its hidden in the rom somewhere? If you haven’t noticed it by now, you will never NOT see it from now on. :rofl:


#26

This. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen Chun end the round with a ridiculous throw that does a ton of damage. It’s like, cr.shortx3 plus a full fierce DP’s worth of damage from Ryu, and you die despite tech’ing of course. I often wonder what the game would be like if “throw killing” was removed. Obviously characters with a throw (as opposed to a hold/grab) would suffer.


#27

No. Every move inflicts a random dizzy value that falls into a specific window for that move (just like how damage is calculated). So Zangief’s headbutt randomly does between 90-something percent and over 100 percent dizzy when you use it. Which is why sometimes it dizzies with one hit, and sometimes it does not cause a dizzy. The only attacks in the game that can cause a dizzy in one hit are Zangief’s vertical headbutts.

No matter how many times you try, a jab shouldn’t one hit dizzy anyone just like a jab doesn’t have a random chance to one hit kill anyone either. There is no 512 Dizzy in ST like the World Warrior 512 Special. There would be countless video examples of one hit dizzies with various moves if that was the case.

As far as normals go, jab and short inflict the least amount of dizzy, then strong and forward, and then fierce and roundhouse. Some throws, special attacks, and command throws follow the same pattern with causing stun. Meaning the fierce/roundhouse versions do the most stun. However some specials and throws do the same dizzy regardless of strength. Supers inflict dizzy as well. Holds inflict so little stun that it is basically impossible to cause a dizzy with them. If a normal throw would cause a dizzy then you cannot tech or soften the throw as well.

I don’t think so. Zangief’s headbutt seems to be the same and so do Dictator’s big ToD combos. It doesn’t seem like the timer matters at all.

If Boxer’s Super whiffs then it cancels the next rush punch, I believe unless you’re holding down a button in which case you’ll get a massive whiff animation of multiple rush punches. The high rush version of Boxer’s Super whiffs without canceling as you have to hold a kick button to activate it. There are more rules to this but I don’t know all of them.

It’s calculated by the game’s internal game clock so it’s constant across all stages. This is also why combos and safe jumps are constant across all stages as well as starting, active, and recovery frames. Ken’s fierce dragon punch always hits on the first frame on every stage.

Can you elaborate?

I thought it was mistake as well but if you look at the corner of the building it’s actually drawn that way on purpose. It looks horrible but it’s clearly not because of a missing art asset.