Things you just don't understand about ST


#15

^word.

someon explain. i wanna do blanka air super lol.


#16

I have a deep knowledge of ST and I basically understand all of the mid/high level tactics. But there’s one thing that completely baffles me-the dizzy system in ST/HDR. What the fucking hell is up with that system? Please someone explain this to me.

I suspect my sparing partner understands the system. In our matches, I routinely get dizzied by him at weird moments of the match-like the first attack of matches. He will not explain to me what the fuck is going on though. If anyone wants to share any insight about how it works, I’m all ears though.


#17

One word randomness. The engine has a random factor that no one can explain.


#18

Maj and the ST Wiki have tried to explain it:

I also remember something about an instant dizzy by an attack or combo within the 1st 10 seconds of a round that wouldn’t normally dizzy outside of the 1st 10 seconds, but I can’t find an article or post that relates to that right now.


#19

One thing that puzzles me…is how the fuck do you get blanka’s super to not roll back after you block it in a corner.

Seems to be random.


#20

it’s controllable.


#21

Thanks for being so in-depth. At first, I didn’t think I’d be able to process all that information in one sitting.


#22

SeikouSeikouShita revealed to me a useful fact. Strong/Forward, your middle strength attacks, they inflict high amounts of stun. Looking at most touch of death combos, they do involve the use of those attacks. He told me to try neutral jump MP, st MP, sonic boom with Guile to gauge just how it works, usually the next hit will dizzy after that combo. All I know is that now I try to utilize medium strength attacks a lot more where it’s feasible/convenient. That’s not going to break open the whole stun system, but it does explain many characters and their frequency to stun.


#23

yea i figured you might prefer an answer from someone of your own superior race, me just being a lowly sand ****** and all.


#24

You’re right, next time don’t reply.


#25

Dizzy system works randomly, but has consistancy as well, which is why JP Gied headbutt almost always dizzies:

-every single unblocked attack has an x% chance to dizzy regardless of how much dizzy dmg you have taken, i believe this number is 1/256 but I don’t remember whwre i got this number. This ould be the TRULY random dizzies.

-at the begining of the round, dizzies are much more likely, ten seconds sounds about right before dizzy goes to normal.

-the trick to mashing out of dizzies is two fold, most people only know half of it. Mash the buttons while wiggling the stick from d/b to up forward. Also, the best seattle ST player at mashing out of dizzy (ask anyone, XTG was insane at it), found it is way easier to maah out by starting as SOON as you stand up. Most people start mashing as soon as they see stars/bells/reapwrs while falling.

Another thing I can’t figure out, how come boxer’s super ends sooner sometimes? It has randomly saved me from being punished sometimes, but i don’t get it. Also, do TAPs charge based on the timer, or real world seconds? If timer seconds, certain stages boxer would have a bigger advantage because the timer is faster on them.

What causes those ‘flicker’ graphical glitches? Theyre in the DC vers as well as cps2. Also why is that square chunk missing out of Ryu’s stage? Is the tile not addressed right and its hidden in the rom somewhere? If you haven’t noticed it by now, you will never NOT see it from now on. :rofl:


#26

This. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen Chun end the round with a ridiculous throw that does a ton of damage. It’s like, cr.shortx3 plus a full fierce DP’s worth of damage from Ryu, and you die despite tech’ing of course. I often wonder what the game would be like if “throw killing” was removed. Obviously characters with a throw (as opposed to a hold/grab) would suffer.


#27

No. Every move inflicts a random dizzy value that falls into a specific window for that move (just like how damage is calculated). So Zangief’s headbutt randomly does between 90-something percent and over 100 percent dizzy when you use it. Which is why sometimes it dizzies with one hit, and sometimes it does not cause a dizzy. The only attacks in the game that can cause a dizzy in one hit are Zangief’s vertical headbutts.

No matter how many times you try, a jab shouldn’t one hit dizzy anyone just like a jab doesn’t have a random chance to one hit kill anyone either. There is no 512 Dizzy in ST like the World Warrior 512 Special. There would be countless video examples of one hit dizzies with various moves if that was the case.

As far as normals go, jab and short inflict the least amount of dizzy, then strong and forward, and then fierce and roundhouse. Some throws, special attacks, and command throws follow the same pattern with causing stun. Meaning the fierce/roundhouse versions do the most stun. However some specials and throws do the same dizzy regardless of strength. Supers inflict dizzy as well. Holds inflict so little stun that it is basically impossible to cause a dizzy with them. If a normal throw would cause a dizzy then you cannot tech or soften the throw as well.

I don’t think so. Zangief’s headbutt seems to be the same and so do Dictator’s big ToD combos. It doesn’t seem like the timer matters at all.

If Boxer’s Super whiffs then it cancels the next rush punch, I believe unless you’re holding down a button in which case you’ll get a massive whiff animation of multiple rush punches. The high rush version of Boxer’s Super whiffs without canceling as you have to hold a kick button to activate it. There are more rules to this but I don’t know all of them.

It’s calculated by the game’s internal game clock so it’s constant across all stages. This is also why combos and safe jumps are constant across all stages as well as starting, active, and recovery frames. Ken’s fierce dragon punch always hits on the first frame on every stage.

Can you elaborate?

I thought it was mistake as well but if you look at the corner of the building it’s actually drawn that way on purpose. It looks horrible but it’s clearly not because of a missing art asset.


#28

there’s definitely more dizzy potentional in your attacks at the start of the round. Plenty of times I’ve dizzied opponents with a small series of attacks at the beginning of a round that have never dizzied in the middle or end of one.

also, lol racism.


#29

In ?h?? All?h

And yes i do know how but that is reserved for true believers and shalt not be taught to infidels.


#30

VF4, I know every attack has a stun value of x amount with variance, i was talking about a chance dizzy attack on TOP of that, which would explain why TODs and Gief headbutt are consistent, yet people still get dizzied by silly stuff like jumping short.

And also I will have to disagree about the start of the round…just experience tells me that it is easier to get dizzied, and I didnt make that up, i read it somewhere…

About the graphic glitches, it seems like the backgrounds flicker sometimes, especially on Deejay’s stage. Its like the background flickers or corrupts for a brief moment.

And yes pleass keep racist bullshit out of a thread for the best fighter ever.


#31

I didn’t say anything, those morons brought it up, lol. I asked a legitimate question, already got my answer playing around in FBA-RR, I can consistently stop the hop back on blanka’s super. They’re just butt hurt over some nonsense on ggpo. Taking the internet way too seriously.


#32

Yep… mediums generally do the most stun in the game. It is 100% false that it goes littles to hards in terms of how much an attack dizzys. There is random moves that do not follow this pattern. But in general this is how dizzys work. And neutral jump attacks for every character not just geif also generally if not every single character are there highest dizzying attacks. Dizzys also arent quite as random as I think people belive. The thing is you have to remember if a character is knocked down and then they stand back up you have to basically take away around half of the points of the dizzy of the move that knocked them down. Other wise besides a bit of randomness its pretty possible to tell when something will dizzy. Again the problem is really just remembering to subtract the move that knocked down if it didnt dizzy.


#33

Hey what’s up dude? If you are who i think you are, I played you a couple of times when HDR was first released. Good times. Do you still play?

Your theories interesting. It’s definitely a different explanation then I would expect to hear. I’d love to hear more about your theory though. Have you discovered any more moves with unique dizzy properties. Also, I don’t really understand what you said about “taking away half the stun points for an opponent standing up.” For instance, do you mean a move, when performed as a meaty, inflicts approximately half the stun points it would on a standing opponent? If so, that’s pretty cool, I never would have guessed it worked that way.

I’ve got a different theory about how the system works. I’m far from figuring it out though. Does anyone remember the guard bar from the capcom vs snk series? I think the Super Turbo dizzy system has similar, but different properties. I still can’t 100% explain how it works though.


#34

Not really a theory man. Its pretty much 100% you can test it yourself. Again randomness is slightly a factor. But in general there is a rule to when you are going to dizzy and when you are not. I actually posted ryus dizzys rates not to long ago. Lemme copy and paste…

From highest to lowest

Jump normals dizzy

-neutral jump hk, then hp
-neutral jump mp
-diagonal jump mp/mk
-diagonal jump hp
-diagonal jump hk
-everything else.

Ground normals
-close stand hk
-duck mp/mk, close stand mp/mk stand hp/hk/mp/(mk I forget… it might be here),duck hk*
-close stand hp, duck hp
-everything else

So basically if you are going for dizzy its almost always better to do medium jump ins to a medium canceable attack to special. The chance of dizzying is quite a bit higher. A lot of characters actually follow similar patterns. Besides a few here and there sorta things… In general you can sorta think of it like diagonal jumping/close/far/and crouching mediums do more then there hard counter parts. And almost every character in the game can actually just dizzy with a neutral jump attack to a medium or 2.

When I ment knocking down I ment like… Its the same reason think of why ryus red fireball seems to do less stun then his blue fireball. If a character is knocked downed down you gotta take away like half of the stun of that move about. So lets say the move does 3 points of stun. Well if it dizzys its all good. BUT, if the move is going to knock down and not dizzy then once the dude stands back up you gotta take away that point and a half in your brain.

Also(this one im actaully not 100% on, as it could be the random factor coming into play here but…)moves tend to do less stun the more then are used in a row. Examples being say new ryus jump mp. If it hits twice, the following combo tends to have a less dizzying chance as if it only hit once. Same way if you were to say do nothing but one attack over and over trying to dizzy. But if you throw in another attack along the way. Much higher chance of dizzying. I assume this is why in ST unlike real old SF it is much harder to dizzy with rapid fire shorts etc. Beacuse in ST they added if you keep doing the same move over and over again less chance to dizzy thing. Where as if you were to do it in SF2 or some shit. Not that hard.

Anyway nah, I havn’t played much man. I started trying to sign on to play ST randomly towards the end of this(errr last)year. But carpal tunnel, bones growing out of hands all the usual health problems… And well my controller broke to the point of being unplayable ive basically stopped. ha… I do plan on buying a new controler sometime this year though… just hard to force myself to, when I don’t really play so its… not very economical? to say? lol

Maybe if im ever out that way though again and your with nick or something we can play though. Will see.