Things you just don't understand about ST


Hello there,
I’m posting this to share thoughts about stuff you don’t understand about ST.
Want some examples ? Here is one of mine, and I want you to answer if you know clearly the solution.
1/ I’m ryu. I’m on the left side. I got crossed up by the opponent. I reverse dp.Thing is, my reversal with the same input (right,down, down/right) came once, in the correct side (means like if i dp’d from the right side), and the other time, my dp came out as a reverse (with still the opponent getting in the other side) but the wrong way (means like a classic left side dp). What is the thing that is determinant for ryu to dp the right way, even though your input is like a left side dp ? Hope that’s clear enough.


I think this also applies to the following scenarios.

ken knee bash opponent and then walk under to the other side and do a cr. RH

if you do a neutral cr. RH, RH can sometime hit the correct direction or the wrong direction.

gief cross up splash, then immediately cross up splash again the other direction (or blanka jump lk)
sometime gief will jump backward but facing the wrong direction


It’s called a backwards attack and happens when you are crossed up and the game determines that you are on the wrong side that you want to be on. It can happen with any type of attack, normals that are standing or crouching, special moves, and even jumping attacks. Usually you see it happen after a jumping cross up. The move you want comes out as an opposite animation because the game registers you as not completely crossing over your opponent and switching sides. Sometimes this can be good, like doing repeated splashes as Papasi stated above. However sometimes a move coming out backwards can cost you the match.

YuuVega doing [media=youtube]d9aNUyfjhRk"]backwards instant overhead magic in the corner. Komoda doing a backwards jumping short kick after a cross up. Jason Nelson gets himself an [attack after a cross up that leaves him open. I don’t usually keep track of backwards moves so this is all I could think of off of the top of my head. As your can see the first two examples help the person, the last one was not intentional at all.

There’s actually a perfect example of Yaya doing cross up tiger knee tricks to get Aniken’s dragon punch to come out the wrong way but I don’t know which video it is. Anyone know that one?

[media=youtube]m9enJ6ZFpvE"]Backwards moves]("[/media) are all over combo videos as well and you can see them in [URL=“”[/media] as well. NKI Volume X has quite a bit, Blanka doing hop tricks to force Ryu’s dragon punch to come out on the wrong side, Zangief blocking Fei’s flame kick behind the back, Ken jumping under Dictator and getting a backwards vertical attack.


vf4, I guess the question is, can you purposely make a backwards attack? If yes, what is the trick to make it happen consistently?

If you cannot do it on purpose, then those shenanigans are just accidents I guess?


The ‘backwards DP’ in the original post is probably because the opponent switched sides after the input was completed, but before the button was pushed (or released).

The ‘side’ that a player is on is tied to the hiboxes in some weird ways, so it is possible to get backwards normal attacks after hitting a crouching opponent with a jumping heavy attack. This is desirable in combos because it will cause pushback into the character. If said reverse normal is canceled, it can produce a reverse special. Maj wrote a nice post on this (sonic hurricane dot com ? SF2 Series Backwards Attack Conditions)


Yes you can do it on purpose consistently. You can do Blanka’s hop tricks or Sagat’s tiger knee crossover tricks to force dragon punches to come out the wrong way. Good Blanka players will always use his hop tricks to force characters animations to come out the wrong way and then go for easy punishes. I think Blanka’s hop can’t be thrown either, so you can even bait a reversal throw to animate the wrong way and then punish it.

Here’s two more cross up tricks. First one is the crazy legs trick where you pass through your opponent. Second one is Yaya doing tiger knee tricks to get his opponent’s dragon punch to come out facing away from him.


Edit: look at the start of the second round in the first match. Mattsun does a hurricane and gets over Makky7 causing his crouching fierce to come out the wrong away.

Numbers one, two, and three are wrong. You can get opposite attacks off of light attacks when they cross up. You can get opposite attacks is the opponent is standing or crouching, on both block and hit. Jump attack timing can vary widely.

Number four I have no idea if that is true or not. My guess is that it is not side specific though.


Wolmar, if you are getting crossed up, you can input a crossup Shoryuken command (:r::df::d::db: :p:) if you are facing right (1P side). This will not prevent backwards Shoryukens from coming out, but it will reduce the amount of backwards SRKs you get. This command will work for Ryu, Ken, Hawk, Sagat and Cammy (Kick for her). For Fei Long, you have to do it backwards (b,db,d,df K).


Speaking of…
For his super ( fei ) you can qcf,qcb but those inputs ( the ones you mentioned and the ones I mentioned ) are cross up specific.

( I sure did use a lot of () in this post )


Thanks guys, and thanx vf4 for nice vids that show clearly how you can add to your strats these “side” tricks. And blitzfu, your post is very interesting to ; but i was asking my question because i once got a magic backward dp while actually entering classic 1p side dp inputs. Now I liked an answer pretty much, 'cause I think it can bring some light :
“The ‘backwards DP’ in the original post is probably because the opponent switched sides after the input was completed, but before the button was pushed (or released).” Two ideas :
1/ So, all in all, does it mean the following thing (brain smoke): to get my dp in the opposite way I’ve entered the inputs, I have to start pushing forward (while still on the ground) and finish the motion normally, the cpu recording my first input in the side the opponent was just before crossing up. And in that way again, it would mean the (lets call it like that) magic dp wont come out if i start to enter the input when I’m crossed up. That seems to make sense. Still I don’t know if it is the actual case. Please continue to enlighten me on this point.
2/ Much more nerd and complicated : in addition to 1/, can someone tell me what is the maximum amount of time the cpu allows you between first, second (and why not) third input of DP ? and what amount of time (frames ?) you have between the motion being performed, and the button to be pushed ? Asking that cause if my suggestion in 1/ is true, knowing that would help.
Thanx for answers, I really hope I’m clear because it’s kinda complicated lol.


This is specifically for combos, and he does say that those are ‘mostly’, not always. In a non-combo setting, another reverse attack situation is cross-unders after air resets.


The command is relative to the opponent. Left, down, down-right will produce an uppercut if the opponent switches sides while you’re hitting down.

I tried to test this in HDR, and didn’t get that far. Roughly speaking, it seems that you get something like 8 frames per input, starting with the initial ‘towards’, but you don’t get the initial 8 frames if you start with a held direction, and there’s some maximum time - something like 20 frames - between inputs – I think it’s less for the button push. So if you start from neutral, you can take up to 24 frames (a staggeringly long time, really, about 1/3 second accounting for turbo) to do the DP motion and still have it come out. If you start with a held towards, you only have 16 frames to complete the motion. I suspect that the button push follows a similar schedule in ST, but I haven’t tested.


In the wiki and forum discussion people keep saying that the game won’t let you tech throw to reduce damage if the throw is going to kill you.

But again and again I see counter examples of this. People can still tech throw when they have like 12-14 pixels of life (and sometime the damage is only like 4-6 pixels).

Is it because of the random number engine acting up and the guy doing the throw just being unlucky?


You CAN tech a normal throw but you CANNOT soften the throw if the full non-softened damage of the throw will kill you. A tech and a soften are actually two different things as well. You can tech a throw that will kill you and you will see the [media=youtube]bhSWzWnMNO4&#t=2m02s"]full throw tech animation (aerial recovery) but your character will still eat the full damage of the throw (damage will not soften). Here’s Dictator throwing O.Honda [for comparison. If you don’t tech a throw that will kill you, then you eat the ground recovery version of the throw (non-tech version) and the damage isn’t softened as well.

Can’t happen. The game calculates that you are dead [media=youtube]-xA1u0Y3AKw"]before you can soften the damage of the throw]("[/media). Even though you go immediately into the aerial recovery animation that a tech throw produces you still eat the [URL=“”[/media].

Basically yes. If someone is near death and they manage to tech a throw and soften the damage they just lucked out.

While I’m here I’ll throw this out as well as I haven’t seen many people talk about it. Chun’s normal throws are bugged in two ways. The first is that you can throw your opponent [media=youtube]SDhx0haHhKQ"[/media] and are standing. Normally you have 13 frames of throw invulnerability when you wake up. However Chun’s normal throws often ignore that rule and allow the player to immediately threaten a throw on wake up. I’ve seen Claw’s off the wall throw ignore that rule as well. Second is that Chun’s normal throws do enormous damage, sometimes even on the level of command throws, which I would estimate is not intentional and is likely a bug.


I still don’t understand how NKI did Cammy’s super in the air.



someon explain. i wanna do blanka air super lol.


I have a deep knowledge of ST and I basically understand all of the mid/high level tactics. But there’s one thing that completely baffles me-the dizzy system in ST/HDR. What the fucking hell is up with that system? Please someone explain this to me.

I suspect my sparing partner understands the system. In our matches, I routinely get dizzied by him at weird moments of the match-like the first attack of matches. He will not explain to me what the fuck is going on though. If anyone wants to share any insight about how it works, I’m all ears though.


One word randomness. The engine has a random factor that no one can explain.


Maj and the ST Wiki have tried to explain it:

I also remember something about an instant dizzy by an attack or combo within the 1st 10 seconds of a round that wouldn’t normally dizzy outside of the 1st 10 seconds, but I can’t find an article or post that relates to that right now.


One thing that puzzles me…is how the fuck do you get blanka’s super to not roll back after you block it in a corner.

Seems to be random.


it’s controllable.