This would make TAC an awesome game mechanic


#1

Lots of people hate TAC and plenty of people love it…maybe these few changes to TAC can make everyone embrace it while adding another level of depth to UMvC. Any way critique at your leisure.

i dont really like the tac system…but i really want to

i think i might have an idea to “fix” tac. If u read this please feel free to poke holes in the idea. maybe if we can find the perfect tac balance, capcom might adopt it in the future…
any way i think they should keep the color warning mechanic but require that the escape command be a precisely timed input. similar to SF3 parry or SC gaurd impact system, where the input must be one-chance timed to the opponents blow. fail get comboed plus meter gain/drain…but succeed and left in a semi-advantageous state where the opponent is vulnerable to a tac, which can be parried/GI’d over and over. this could continue until a player chooses not to pursue a “counter” tac, leading to a neutral state or a hit is scored.
The window on the timing and the color warning system would just need to be tweaked to find the right balance of perception,reflexes,readiness.
We could even perhaps expand tac to include a fourth direction if 3 escapes is to easy with the warnings and all. then we could have…

  • up tac as the only input to decrease hitstun and reset any damage scaling
  • left tac drains meter
    -right tac gains meter
    -and make down tac…steal a level of xfactor from the opponent!

sorry if any of this has already been proposed…but what does everyone think?


#2

Take it out and then it will be an awesome game mechanic


#3

TAC could stay as it is, but when countered, the player that gets countered should not be invunerable until he hits the ground, and also should get reversed effects of the meter gaining stuff…

if trying to side tag, opponent would get a full meter instead of losing one and if trying to down tag, would lose a full meter instead of getting one…

risk/reward should be tweaked to be high risk / high reward, not low risk / high reward like it’s today and then it could be a fine mechanic.

the way it’s proposed by the topic creator it’s maybe too confusing.


#4

I agree but it has some potential…and novices players rely heavily on it. If it were gone a good chunk of “scrubs” might quit and i say the more people playing fighting games the better…i was around during the FG Dark Ages(2000-2007) and i dont want to go back. Mechanics for novice players helps keep this train rolling.


#5

When you put it like that…

Well, if they make it so you can start your own combo after countering people would think twice before doing it, so this by itself would already improve the system.

If not, take off the gain/drain stuff, make it just a combo extender/safe tag and I won’t complain about people using it all the time.

That being said, the UMVC3 TAC system is already better than the vanilla one, the meter drain option and the color scheme may make things better… I hope…


#6

They should leave it alone, there isn’t much wrong with it.


#7

Interesting, give your opponent a meter and keep your combo going/safe tag.

But there shouldn’t be a way to counter it if the opponent would already gain meter from it.


#8

:eek: To be really honest, I think TvC did it right when TAC cost a meter to perform and didn’t grant any bonus meter as a mechanic.

It was an offensive crossover counter and was pretty brilliant. I don’t remember it being counterable, either (which makes sense), so it added a new level of strategy with your switching and was something that just felt really natural even the first time I did it and was left wondering why it wasn’t in previous Versus games.

The problems right now with it are its ridiculous advantages for success, the meager penalty for failure, and the inconsistency in its interpretation for the counter commands. Making a TvC-style TAC would be pretty boss and, I think, a welcome change for the system.


#9

God, why they released this game on Wii? It looks so fucking amazing everytime people talk about it, and I LOVE Karas and Casshern.

Too bad I play all kinds of games, if I played only Fighting Games I think I’d have a Wii instead of a PS3.


#10

:eek: It was a pretty blatant, “Here, try this 2.5D Versus engine we want to use for a future game and toss us a couple bucks for the fanservice.”

The Wii release was also carefully planned so that even if people were really upset about the game and it was a total failure, there wasn’t a gigantic player base to alienate. Think about all the people you know who own a Wii. Now, from those, think about the people who play fighters seriously, then from those think about the ones who enjoy Versus games, and then from those think about the ones who would even know what Tatsunoko is or represents.

Yeah, it was a pretty meticulously planned launch. It just so happened that we got a pretty fun game out of it. :smiley:


#11

There’s really no way to fix TAC without removing it. It’s always going to suck, but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to try to make it suck less.

Moving on. Your first suggestion will only succeed in making TACs even more scrub friendly. Why finish a difficult to execute air combo, when now you could effectively force a 66% chance to gain a whole bar / drain the opponent’s bar, as well as get easier damage? No, “resets for babies” should not be rewarded further.

And being able to TAC after burst? I’d say you’re on the right track, but still far. Flopped combos and failed resets would otherwise run the risk of serious reprisal, I would think that burst-ed TACs should suffer the same fate.

Again, why should it be even harder to escape TAC’s? Either finish the combo or go for resets in the ground. You want to go for cheap rewards, you have to accept heavy risks.

Also, what are you thinking? X-Factor? That is broke as crap! As ridiculous X-Factor is, it is just too important to be directed by the opponent. I could only assume this is some sort of joke.

So let me make myself clear. TAC rewards randomness, and nothing more. Wouldn’t be much of a problem, if it weren’t such a big reward: super building or draining, as well as extra damage and reducing damage/combo scaling in one nice, random package. Worst of all, the punishment is unfitting for failing; you lose the combo you were doing, but otherwise get out unharmed. Compare that to dropping a combo, or screwing up any other reset attempt; here, your punishment is granting the opponent a big opportunity to lay it back at you.

Thus, I’d think it would be more fit to punish TAC failures.It’s more of a bet if anything. You wanna drain the opponents super? You put your own on the line. You want to gain an easy meter? You risk the opponent gaining a level of their own. Easy damage/combo reset? Better hope the opponent doesn’t guess right, or you’ll end up getting combo’d yourself. So there, a high rewarding maneuver being met with a serious risk, as it should be. Still stupid, but at least not really stupid.

EDIT: Dammit, I type my thoughts too slowly


#12

Of course it was a pretty fun game, it has Karas.


#13

Let me see if I understand: If you counter a down TAC you gain a meter? If so that’s actually a pretty good idea…


#14

I don’t know why you guys are looking to give someone a benefit for countering a TAC. It’s their combo, not a neutral state that’s supposed to be fair to both players. I’m going to repost what I posted in another thread about TACs, because this is basically the same thing.

Why countering a TAC shouldn’t benefit the guy getting comob’d

[details=Spoiler]The person is getting combo’d because they got mixed up and hit. They’re in control at this point. You’re the ragdoll dummy who got mixed-up and hit earlier, and now it’s his game until he drops it. Him using a TAC is actually giving you a potential out where before there was none.

It’s not some neutral state that is supposed to be fair to both players. Think about it like Throw Techs - you don’t get a sudden combo on the other guy because you teched his throw. Your reward is just not getting thrown. Hell in Super Turbo, you still were thrown and just took less damage. And you’d still try to tech the throw every time because it was better than the alternative.

Think about why people use TACs. You have 6 reasons:
[LIST=1]
[]The TAC glitch which lets a technical player style on you for days while building shit tons of meter because hit stun is goofed until someone lands.
[
]4+ Meter gains for Phoenix teams through down/side TACs into style combos.
[]Making DHC glitches easier by TACing to a starter (like Magneto or Storm).
[
]Build some extra meter/do a bit of extra damage with a quick combo extension.
[]Try to reorder the team for various other reasons.
[
]Because they’re terrible and don’t know any real combos.
[/LIST]
The first 3 things on that list are going away or being minimized in Ultimate because they’re retarded, and the 6th doesn’t matter at all.

Now to say that breaking a TAC isn’t valuable? If you break a TAC on any of those first 4 reasons, you probably saved a character’s life and/or kept them from getting a boatload of meter. You also just reset the game to neutral, whereas before it was heavily in his favor. He was either going to kill a character and get a setup on your next guy coming in, or he was going to end the combo into a knockdown where he could then setup a mix-up as you got up. Instead of all that, you’re neutral.

If you broke the TAC for reason #5? You denied him a safe tag. You now force him to raw tag (dangerous) or use some other way to fix their team. Or they just have to deal with it.

TACs can be abusive and they’re being nerfed in those situations where they are - probably even overnerfed in Ultimate. If the color component makes them something easy to counter, they’ll just be something bad players use because they don’t know real combos because no one else will want that uncertainty in their game. And real players shouldn’t be concerned about bad players that need 2-3 combos to kill 1 character.[/details]


#15

In fact, what I wanted to say was to reverse the effects of meter gaining when countered and also, not be invulnerable when countered…

so, if you successfully TAC, it would work exactly as it does today.
if you’re countered, the meter gaining stuff is reversed, and if your opponent is fast enough, he can beat the crap of you while you fall after the TAC Counter…

this way, what would happen to you when countered would be slightly worse than the benefit you get when your TAC is successful.
Risk / Reward would still be good enough for someone to try it, but not brainless enough for someone to mash it…

As it is today, if you hit’em with TAC, you get a load of meter, a safe tag and still comboing… and if you’re countered, you just get positions on screen reset…
You still get 66% success rate! how stupid is that? LOL!


#16

I can agree with not having benefits from contering, but only if you take away the meter gain. Make it cost a meter and you can remove the counter.


#17

I see, it’s good as well, you get something for countering, and your oponent don’t want you to break his combo and get a combo/meter, so he would think twice before using TAC.


#18

I just think TAC should cost a meter. That’s all.


#19

There are already several threads about this.

As long as TAC is centered around an RPS or QTE type mechanic, no matter how balanced it is, it will be dumb and should be removed.


#20

Honestly, it mostly only helps new players. Experienced players don’t really need it as much, and it definitely is not imbalancing (except maybe in Dark Phoenix situations).

No big deal, no reason to remove it.