# Tick throw question

#136

It can be hard to grab M Bison online because of how tight you have to be with the grab and because online can visually mess you up with lag.

#137

I can do tick throws pretty tightly/accurately. There are people online who have funny lag ALL the time and can jump straight out of 99% of my tick attempts. With these people I just give up and do regular attacks for the rest of the match :rock:

#138

Bison also has the fastest jump start-up.

#139

Read my blog as to how lag affects things like HDR and tick throws. Long story short is your opponent doesn’t receive your button input until X amount of frames have passed since you input it. X is defined as ping in ms / 16 = number of frames.

Example, 2 players have 160 ping. 160/16=10 frames from the time you hit the button until the opponent gets it.

I wanted to ask a question along these lines. Let’s take Ken for example. Ken jumps toward me and I do a meaty cr.roundhouse in order to trip him as he lands, but he executes a dragon punch the moment he hits the floor. Meaty sweep loses.

I presume this is a result of lag?

Am I right in thinking that if Ken is to jump forward and do a dragon punch with the correct timing that there would be just 1 frame where he is able to be tripped, so the meaty should not lose?

What I’m getting at is if Ken does an empty jump toward, will a meaty sweep beat whatever he tries to do as he lands? What about landing and throwing?

#140

A sweep will always beat a jumpin if timed right. If you miss it’s due to bad timing or lag.

#141

Attacking (unless it is a tatsu*) does not make Ken escape sweeps or affects it somehow, apart from often hitting the extended hitbox that crouching characters have. If the sweep is there and in range, waiting for Ken to land, ken gets swept 100% of the time. However, it may be that the sweep was just out of range or Ken’s landing frame, which is quite common, so Ken lands, recovers (just one frame), does a SRK and hits the extended limb. As for throws, I believe perfectly timed throws on landing always win, unless against shit like dictator’s strong or Chun’s head stomp.

Or lag. Yes, it can be lag.

Edit: crap, blitzfu beat me!

*cos tatsu is even worse, it extends the recovery time

#142

I’m working on a dutch ST guide.

What is the case for reversal throws against command throws?

#143

Reversal throw beats non-reversal throw.
Double reversal throw, and double non-reversal-throw are toss-ups.
It doesn’t matter whether the throws are command or not.

As far as I’m aware the differences between normal and command throws are that command throws can’t be teched/softened or mashed out of, give super bar, are executed differently and tend to have better reach and damage.

#144

that’s what I thought thanks.

#145

No matter what or how, if 2 throws happen at the same time, they have 50/50 chance , its confirmed by SF2 director:
http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/akira-nishitani-speaks-sf2-director-154210.0.html

nin_akira said:

``````An SF2 detail anecdote. On the occasion that two opposing processes had to occur on the same frame, I thought it would be unfair to give one player priority over the other, so the programmer made the order of processes during an individual frame rearrange at random. And as a result of that attacks that become active on their very first frame like Blanka's Bush Buster and such become unblockable 50% of the time. Although that's my fault for making them active on the first frame in the first place.
``````

nin_akira said:

``Like you said, when two opposing attacks hit at the same time the result is that they trade. The circumstances I was referring to were things that we otherwise couldn't do anything about. The one that comes to mind is if both players tried to throw each other at the same time. Was there anything else?``

#146

Does it matter which button you throw with?

Also, this is just how it feels to me in my experience,and I am sure there’s tons of evidence against it, but certain characters seem to win grabs more often than others. Bison and Vega for example seem to beat Chun more often, while Ryu and DJ don’t. Seems to be some grab priority for each character (I actually let this dictate how I play, I rarely tick Vega unless desperate).

Don’t kill me.

#147

Depends on what you mean. Certain throws are different and be used in different setups. For example, Honda’s strong throw can be used to go directly into a safe jump setup against Guile and Deejay, whereas he has to use fierce on Claw to get the same setup. Fierce throw is also used in the corner to setup his cross under sweep setups.

Characters also have different throw ranges. Vega and Fei have booty throw range, whereas Sim, Boxer, and Blanka have extremely good throw ranges. There’s a myth that Boxer’s strong throw has more range than his fierce one, but I don’t think it’s been proven.

Whoever throws first will get the throw. Simple as that. In the event that two players press the throw button at the EXACT same time, which is rare, the game will randomly chooses who wins. While this sounds like a shitty mechanic, it really doesn’t affect the game that much, since the odds of two players landing a throw on the exact same frame is pretty slim.

There’s no such thing as grab priority. Whoever is in range and presses the button first, will get the throw.

Side note: Despite Vega’s low throw range, his insanely fast walk speed makes up for it, which makes it feel like he’s difficult to tick.

#148

#149

I’ve read that portion of the wiki, but has it been confirmed? Seems odd that only one character would have an expanded throw range on one of their throws, while everybody else’s is the same. How was it itested?

#150

I see, so it may matter which throw is used. I don’t want to make anyone into info servants, but I’d highly appreciate info on Chun’s grabs; specifically if there’s situational uses for each, like Honda’s, and why.

So if there’s a myth about Boxer, that means not all grab mechanics are 100% understood? Some things do seem fishy…

Yeah, I remember you told me about Vega’s grab situation before, thanks. That walk speed is nuts, haha.

In a single match the 50/50 wouldn’t matter much statistically but it definitely comes up over thousands of matches. A clean break would be preferable in a game with so much grabbing. Ain’t gonna happen but still.

#151

probably with the hitbox viewer, it also shows throw ranges as boxes

#152

Not much info on Chun’s grab. She has two, but her strong one does ridiculously good damage. So whenever possible, use her strong though. Obviously if you’re trying to counter throw, I would just piano or double tap her throw buttons, just so you might have a higher chance of being successful.

Grab mechanics, from a practical perspective, are pretty much understood for the most. The practical mechanics of it are understood. Boxer has a great throw range period, so it’s hard to deduce from personal experience whether or not his throw differences make an ACTUAL difference in a match.

Clean breaks are nice, but look rather odd, as throw breaks don’t actually happen in real life, but soft teching a throw would. I don’t know, it seems to work within the flow of the game. The only issue I have is that certain characters can repeat throw loops over and over again, which does seem ridiculous, but you just gotta learn to roll with the punches. Learning how to counterthrow is just as important a skill as learning how to reversal properly, both of which are difficult.

I’m not sure which version you’re talking about, but the one that I’ve used doesnt throw throw ranges. Either way, how exactly would it show a 0-frame startup throw, since there’s no animation to it whatsoever? I’m curious if these things were actually discovered, or if it’s just rumors that float around. Wiki doesn’t show throw differences, but it just mentions it as a blurb.

#153

@eltrouble, lets bring @born2spd to it, he is the one who has added a ton of data to the wiki, hopefully he can add a visual of both boxer ranges, mp n hp

#154

Thanks for tagging me up bastard, i would never see this topic since its inside the HDR subforum.
Anyway, all the explanation regarding my findings about Boxers throws are in this topic: it explains not only the difference between strong and fierce throws, but also the differences when facing different characters.

#155

Glad I asked. I just use medium punch throws since I’m already tapping it usually…thanks for the info!

Well, I read earlier in this topic where some were debating simultaneous grabs don’t do 50/50 but some other way. It definitely seems 50/50 to me with at least in mirrors…I forgot what the guy said happened instead.

That is true, clean breaks do seem dumb and the flow works okay in this game even with the mechanic. Yeah, the loops suck but at least most need to work to get them.

^ So it’s a context sensitive grab? Too bad they don’t tweak everyone that way to balance the games intead of making a total change. It makes more sense that way, and would really make you learn matchups.